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Bernie Supporters --- what are you going to do?

What will you do?

  • Total voters
    29
Phys251 said:
Oh now you're proposing the military as a solution to all of this! Thank you, you just made my point for me.
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Phys251 said:
Oh now you're proposing the military as a solution to all of this! Thank you, you just made my point for me.
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All of what? You're not making any sense. Have you been in the military before, or even worked with them?
Did you completely ignore the part of the conversation about Congress? I bet you did.
 
Phys251 said:
I think BoB (Bernie-or-Bust) is a dogmatic religion. Think about it: They have their deity, they have their beliefs, and nothing that anyone says, no matter how credible the source, can possibly convince them otherwise. Many people had supported Bernie but now have come over, however reluctantly, to Team Hillary, if for no other reason than sheer necessity. Yet the people left in the Religion of BoB are ****ting all over them. News flash to the BoBs: Leaving a pack of traitors is not, by definition, treachery. It's called waking the hell up and coming to grips with this thing called reality.
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"Sheer necessity?" Pragmatism over principle? Traitors?!
 
Harshaw said:
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Exactly. He unintentionally made my point.

Seems to me that there are people out there--and I'm not saying it's any of you--that not only don't mind risking an apocalypse: they actually like the idea of one. Remember Michelle Bachmann's comments about how Obama might be bringing on the end times?
 
Out of Clinton, Trump, Bernie and Cruz, Bernie was the one I objected to the least. I'm going to assume that counts as supporting him, and vote in the poll for Gary Johnson.
 
Phys251 said:
Exactly. He unintentionally made my point.

Seems to me that there are people out there--and I'm not saying it's any of you--that not only don't mind risking an apocalypse: they actually like the idea of one. Remember Michelle Bachmann's comments about how Obama might be bringing on the end times?
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Yeah, that makes literally no sense.

Donald Trump is not actually a god emperor. If he ordered the various branches of the military to commit war crimes and the like and they collective ignored him or refused, there's nothing he could do to force them.
 
Phys251 said:
Exactly. He unintentionally made my point.
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That's not what you should have taken from my post.

It's that you're contradicting yourself and frankly, flailing wildly.

Trump cannot declare martial law.

And as for the (far-fetched) bit about the military, if the generals defy him, he's no longer in command.
 
Tigerace117 said:
Yeah, that makes literally no sense.

Donald Trump is not actually a god emperor. If he ordered the various branches of the military to commit war crimes and the like and they collective ignored him or refused, there's nothing he could do to force them.
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At last a voice of reason. This, all of this. The real reason our military is so powerful is because of our government. Our government thinks it is there to police the world - oh how woefully wrong they are.
 
Abbazorkzog said:
All of what? You're not making any sense. Have you been in the military before, or even worked with them?
Did you completely ignore the part of the conversation about Congress? I bet you did.
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Oh so I have to be in the military to have an informed opinion about what the military should do?!

Keep it up--this is getting better by the minute!

Now. Let's try this again. Dictatorship. You know how this thing works, right? That they give no ****s about what the Congress/Parliament/etc. legislative body says, right? Or they just get made into a rubber-stamp legislature, although I don't see as much of a risk of that.
 
Phys251 said:
Oh so I have to be in the military to have an informed opinion about what the military should do?!

Keep it up--this is getting better by the minute!

Now. Let's try this again. Dictatorship. You know how this thing works, right? That they give no ****s about what the Congress/Parliament/etc. legislative body says, right? Or they just get made into a rubber-stamp legislature, although I don't see as much of a risk of that.
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Dude. The President can't just declare himself a dictator. I mean, he can try, but no one has to pay any attention to him. There's nothing he can do about it if they don't.
 
Phys251 said:
Oh so I have to be in the military to have an informed opinion about what the military should do?!

Keep it up--this is getting better by the minute!

Now. Let's try this again. Dictatorship. You know how this thing works, right? That they give no ****s about what the Congress/Parliament/etc. legislative body says, right? Or they just get made into a rubber-stamp legislature, although I don't see as much of a risk of that.
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You're still operating under the logic that in a political confrontation between Trump's White House on one side, and Congress, the Pentagon and the Intel Com on the other, that Trump would win...

Trump would be shaking in his boots if he pissed off the U.S. Armed Forces enough to spark talks about a potential deposition. He'd be impeached beforehand anyway, though.
 
I voted for Bernie in the Michigan primary. I will vote for Clinton in November.
 
Harshaw said:
That's not what you should have taken from my post.

It's that you're contradicting yourself and frankly, flailing wildly.

Trump cannot declare martial law.

And as for the (far-fetched) bit about the military, if the generals defy him, he's no longer in command.
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Okay, okay...let's try this again. Because you guys clearly don't get it. You are deliberately and intentionally trying to twist my words around.

You choose not to understand that if I am right on this--and I freely admit that that is not 100% certain--dictators don't need Congresses. But even if we suppose for the sake of argument that Trump wouldn't, say, bypass the entire Congress, that alone is not reason enough to think he might be stood up. FFS, last week he just gave an acceptance speech to the Republican party that might have well been backdropped by the Nazi flag. You want some evidence of a nontrivial risk of Trump's becoming a dictator, well there's a piece of that evidence.
 
Abbazorkzog said:
You're still operating under the logic that in a political confrontation between Trump's White House on one side, and Congress, the Pentagon and the Intel Com on the other, that Trump would win...

Trump would be shaking in his boots if he pissed off the U.S. Armed Forces enough to spark talks about a potential deposition. He'd be impeached beforehand anyway, though.
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To say nothing of 50 state governments, all of which are going to say "**** THAT."
 
Abbazorkzog said:
You're still operating under the logic that in a political confrontation between Trump's White House on one side, and Congress, the Pentagon and the Intel Com on the other, that Trump would win...

Trump would be shaking in his boots if he pissed off the U.S. Armed Forces enough to spark talks about a potential deposition. He'd be impeached beforehand anyway, though.
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And under the assumption that the President can declare martial law. Which he can't. As he's been informed, twice.
 
Phys251 said:
Okay, okay...let's try this again. Because you guys clearly don't get it. You are deliberately and intentionally trying to twist my words around.

You choose not to understand that if I am right on this--and I freely admit that that is not 100% certain--dictators don't need Congresses. But even if we suppose for the sake of argument that Trump wouldn't, say, bypass the entire Congress, that alone is not reason enough to think he might be stood up. FFS, last week he just gave an acceptance speech to the Republican party that might have well been backdropped by the Nazi flag. You want some evidence of a nontrivial risk of Trump's becoming a dictator, well there's a piece of that evidence.
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OK. You tell me exactly how he goes about establishing a dictatorship if neither Congress nor the courts want to play along. To say nothing, again, of 50 state governments, or the military.

Lay out the steps.
 
At the most an authoritarian President Trump would maintain control of a few breakaway regions via the Department of Homeland Security, state governments, FEMA and local police forces (i.e. the NYPD which is already massively corrupt) that decided to go along with him, and the Pentagon would have a demilitarized zone in the ilk of the North/South Korean Peninsula DMZ. And of course, someone else would become President of the legitimate United States.

Imagine if a scenario like the DMZ comics panned out with President Clinton on one side and President Trump on the other.
 
Abbazorkzog said:
You're still operating under the logic that in a political confrontation between Trump's White House on one side, and Congress, the Pentagon and the Intel Com on the other, that Trump would win...

Trump would be shaking in his boots if he pissed off the U.S. Armed Forces enough to spark talks about a potential deposition. He'd be impeached beforehand anyway, though.
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And you know that he'd be impeached how? All it would take is a one-thirds minority in the House to let him stay in office. Today's Republican party is so bat**** insane that I wouldn't put it past them to let him stay in office, even if all of that were to happen.

And BTW. The existence of this talk of the armed forces standing up the president, yet again, reinforces my point. I should not have to explain to an adult how ****ing destabilizing that would be. We've already got enough nuts in our nation as is. A circumstance such as that would precipitate an outright national crisis.
 
Harshaw said:
OK. You tell me exactly how he goes about establishing a dictatorship if neither Congress nor the courts want to play along. To say nothing, again, of 50 state governments, or the military.

Lay out the steps.
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That is a VERY big "if." Just in case you forgot, right now the Republicans control both houses of Congress, and you saw how quickly most of them rallied around Trump at the RNC, however reluctantly. I do not put it past a Republican Congress to be a rubber-stamp legislature for Trump. And if that happens, then bam, a sufficient but not necessary condition for Dictator Trump.
 
Phys251 said:
And you know that he'd be impeached how? All it would take is a one-thirds minority in the House to let him stay in office. Today's Republican party is so bat**** insane that I wouldn't put it past them to let him stay in office, even if all of that were to happen.
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You mean the same GOP that tried for an entire presidential primary to stop him, and then - spearheaded by Ted Cruz - refused to endorse his nomination? The same GOP that has been contemplating running a third-party candidate. The same GOP that would probably be the first to jump on the impeachment bandwagon to save face? I lol.

And BTW. The existence of this talk of the armed forces standing up the president, yet again, reinforces my point. I should not have to explain to an adult how ****ing destabilizing that would be. We've already got enough nuts in our nation as is. A circumstance such as that would precipitate an outright national crisis.
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Once again, it would be just the Armed Forces. It would be Congress, 50 state governments, most of the local police forces, armed militias, armed citizens, state guard, and every other nation on the planet.

Trump would capitulate in about 0.05 seconds.
 
Phys251 said:
That is a VERY big "if." Just in case you forgot, right now the Republicans control both houses of Congress, and you saw how quickly most of them rallied around Trump at the RNC, however reluctantly. I do not put it past a Republican Congress to be a rubber-stamp legislature for Trump. And if that happens, then bam, a sufficient but not necessary condition for Dictator Trump.
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No, these are YOUR terms, dude. You said "dictators don't need Congresses." You also said it wasn't likely Congress would go along with him.

So lay it out, how he does it without them.
 
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