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Democrats/Hillary voters only --- Are you happy with Tim Kaine as the VP choice?

Are you happy with Tim Kaine as VP?


  • Total voters
    30
No, they're not. They're just consistently populist, and that doesn't pad the politicians' pockets enough for their liking.

What I said is that they won't vote if there's no liberals on offer. Their definition of liberal is pretty clear-cut. Just look at their ballot votes. They're so consistent that they consistently win.



No, obviously you don't. Even Clinton himself has admitted his policies played a role in the recession.

Just because he had a surplus at the time does not mean he didn't harm the economy in the long run. And let me just say, he was also president during a huge tech boom that had NOTHING to do with him. In reality, Clinton was just lucky enough to be president during a period of huge amounts of innovation worldwide.

Those housing plans eventually lead to those people losing their houses in 2008. Not without help from Dubya, but what Clinton did with the economy and deregulation was thoughtless and short-sighted.



I'm an autodidact with no use for university, actually, but good to know you look down on people seeking education. Why do so many Americans take such pride in their anti-intellectualism? Anyway...

And no, he wasn't. You don't seem to understand that the affects of a presidency don't just abruptly stop when they leave office.

He was a good talker, I'll give him that much. But if 2008 and the most incarcerated population on earth is the price of that, I'll pass.



You do know what pulling Godwin means, don't you? It means you've automatically lose the debate by resorting to completely asinine hyperbole to try to make your point.



My conscience says America either needs to be repeatedly slapped until the beast wakes, or it's going to be one of the many sad, slow, slides into chaos that many empires before us have gone through. I don't know which is worse.
Okay. The only thing I get from this interaction is that (A) you are obviously a stream-of-consciousness kind of person (B) your head is full of "stuff" which isn't entirely grounded in fact, and (C) you're from London.

Good day to you my friend.
 
Why try to relive old greatness? Every generation diserves to make their own path and achieve their greatness.

I'm not. I'm just trying to find the best way for America to descend softly. And it can -- there are a very small number of empires who have descended from dominance, but gone on to be very good places to live that still have significant international voices. But only a small number. And America is not following that path. That concerns me.
 
Okay. The only thing I get from this interaction is that (A) you are obviously a stream-of-consciousness kind of person (B) your head is full of "stuff" which isn't entirely grounded in fact, and (C) you're from London.

Good day to you my friend.

I'm from Minneapolis, Minnesota, and you choosing to ignore my direct refutations of every point you made -- and in fact, even Bill Clinton's refutations on some things -- does not mean they simply go away.
 
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I'm not. I'm just trying to find the best way for America to descend softly. And it can -- there are a very small number of empires who have descended from dominance, but gone on to be very good places to live that still have significant international voices. But only a small number. And America is not following that path. That concerns me.

I am not arguing for America to settle for less.

The future is open to those who seek it.
 
You have very poor perception of Kaine that could be rectified with a few clicks. But since you were only looking for more reasons not to vote for someone you HATE. Do us all a favor and don't vote at all.

Tim Kaine on Abortion

Kaine supports abortion access, after he has made her jump through a bunch of unnecessary, time-consuming hoops, and forced minors to perhaps go to court. That is not a true pro-choice position to me. It's a coercive choice-in-name-only position. He supports making things harder for the women who need access the most.
 
I'm from Minneapolis, Minnesota, and you choosing to ignore my direct refutations of every point you made -- and in fact, even Bill Clinton's refutations on some things -- does not mean they simply go away.
I teach and write history...I tend to focus on all the statistics and all that pesky facts-based sort of stuff that goes along with. I tend to not dabble that much in the realm of conspiracy theory and unsubstantiated claims not backed up by the historic record. Peace:peace
 
I teach and write history...I tend to focus on all the statistics and all that pesky facts-based sort of stuff that goes along with. I tend to not dabble that much in the realm of conspiracy theory and unsubstantiated claims not backed up by the historic record. Peace:peace

Then you should know all about the impact of Clinton's deregulation, which he himself openly states were part of what led to the recession. This is all numbers, acknowledged even by the person who helped create them.

What conspiracy? Just typical political short-sightedness. He said it was something he just didn't think through enough, in his attempts to appear congenial. I more or less believe him.

You know what they say about assumptions.
 
...And a lot of that other legislation was also passed by Clinton, including the stuff that makes it so difficult for poor blacks to go to school, get a job, or live with family after release, and the deregulation that allowed private prisons to gain the stranglehold they now have.

Shutting them all in prison and throwing away the key -- or taking away their keys when they're released -- is not fixing the problem. Not in a country that purports itself to be based on "freedom."

Does she really? This one says less than 70.

Race, Gender Biggest Differentiators in Views of Clinton, Trump

Still a good number. But she's a Democrat running against an openly racist Republican. A Cabbage Patch doll with a donkey pin could probably get 70% of the black vote just as easily, under these circumstances.

She is getting 91% support among blacks. http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/286110-poll-finds-almost-no-support-for-trump-among-black-voters

Also, most of what you are talking about is at the state level. The majority of inmates are in state prisons which are dictated by state laws, not federal laws. http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/p14_Summary.pdf
 
Then you should know all about the impact of Clinton's deregulation, which he himself openly states were part of what led to the recession. This is all numbers, acknowledged even by the person who helped create them.

What conspiracy? Just typical political short-sightedness. He said it was something he just didn't think through enough, in his attempts to appear congenial. I more or less believe him.

You know what they say about assumptions.

I don't care to beat this dead horse in this thread. Economic policy is all about trade-offs. There are virtually thousands of stats and numbers to play with. Perhaps you should dig a bit deeper and stop cherry-picking in an attempt to prove your contention. One could argue that the "tech boom" that you mentioned was ONLY sustained by Clinton's deregulation. And go a step further and say that the stock market boom was a direct reflection of the tech boom and that equaled growth, more jobs, a rise in average per capita wages. An increase in home ownership, a lowering of the interest rates,............trade offs. I was no fan of him signing the NAFTA agreement into law.....but one cant argue that this policy had a significant impact on growth and on the US being in a position to pay down the debt. And you may not be able to understand it, but not having a deficit, greatly increases our international credit rating and puts us in a very unique advantage in many international trade agreements.

Clinton also didn't get us bogged down in unnecessary conflicts around the globe...he was quite moderate when it came to foreign policy. Being "at peace" had a tremendous impact on our ability as a nation to focus financial resources where they were better needed.

Bottom line, if you are going to attempt to do a historic analysis....look at the WHOLE picture.
 
I don't care to beat this dead horse in this thread. Economic policy is all about trade-offs. There are virtually thousands of stats and numbers to play with. Perhaps you should dig a bit deeper and stop cherry-picking in an attempt to prove your contention. One could argue that the "tech boom" that you mentioned was ONLY sustained by Clinton's deregulation. And go a step further and say that the stock market boom was a direct reflection of the tech boom and that equaled growth, more jobs, a rise in average per capita wages. An increase in home ownership, a lowering of the interest rates,............trade offs. I was no fan of him signing the NAFTA agreement into law.....but one cant argue that this policy had a significant impact on growth and on the US being in a position to pay down the debt. And you may not be able to understand it, but not having a deficit, greatly increases our international credit rating and puts us in a very unique advantage in many international trade agreements.

Clinton also didn't get us bogged down in unnecessary conflicts around the globe...he was quite moderate when it came to foreign policy. Being "at peace" had a tremendous impact on our ability as a nation to focus financial resources where they were better needed.

Bottom line, if you are going to attempt to do a historic analysis....look at the WHOLE picture.

The Clinton Administration heralded in:

22 million new jobs.
The poverty rate dropping to its lowest level in the history of the country.
The Median Income rate increasing every year (the only time it has done so that consistently since the early 70s).
Millions of minorities moving into the middle class.
Budget surpluses...

The only president in the history of the country with a better economic record than Clinton was LBJ. There are those that try to credit the Republican congress, but it was the same Republicans running the congress when Clinton left office yet they certainly were not able to maintain his level of growth. Finally, if the tech boom was due to anything passed during the Clinton years it was the 1996 Telecom Act.
 
Finally, the next president will appoint 3 SCOTUS justices and thus quite possibly shape the future of the Federal Court System for the rest of our lives. In light of that, if you care about progressive issues and don't vote for Hillary, then frankly you are a ****ing idiot.

Fill up SCOTUS with nothing but Scalia clones and you could elect the most liberal presidents and congresses in this country's history for the next 2 decades straight, and nothing will be accomplished. Everything they do will get struck down. Moreover, most of the progress of the last 50 years will be struck down as well.
 
Finally, the next president will appoint 3 SCOTUS justices and thus quite possibly shape the future of the Federal Court System for the rest of our lives. In light of that, if you care about progressive issues and don't vote for Hillary, then frankly you are a ****ing idiot.

Fill up SCOTUS with nothing but Scalia clones and you could elect the most liberal presidents and congresses in this country's history for the next 2 decades straight, and nothing will be accomplished. Everything they do will get struck down. Moreover, most of the progress of the last 50 years will be struck down as well.

that's why I am supporting Trump. I don't want justices who can find a right for stuff that the founders never intended in the ninth but pretend that the second amendment doesn't apply to individuals. We have to start rolling back the commerce clause as a blank check for congressional power.
 
She is getting 91% support among blacks. Poll: Trump gets 1 percent support among black voters | TheHill

Also, most of what you are talking about is at the state level. The majority of inmates are in state prisons which are dictated by state laws, not federal laws. http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/p14_Summary.pdf

Well, I trust Gallup a hell of a lot more, honestly.

But like I said, her opponent is Trump, dude. What do you expect?

The deregulation allowing the incarceration culture is federal, and the changes to where they're allowed to live and how much educationally help they receive is also largely federal.
 
I don't care to beat this dead horse in this thread. Economic policy is all about trade-offs. There are virtually thousands of stats and numbers to play with. Perhaps you should dig a bit deeper and stop cherry-picking in an attempt to prove your contention. One could argue that the "tech boom" that you mentioned was ONLY sustained by Clinton's deregulation. And go a step further and say that the stock market boom was a direct reflection of the tech boom and that equaled growth, more jobs, a rise in average per capita wages. An increase in home ownership, a lowering of the interest rates,............trade offs. I was no fan of him signing the NAFTA agreement into law.....but one cant argue that this policy had a significant impact on growth and on the US being in a position to pay down the debt. And you may not be able to understand it, but not having a deficit, greatly increases our international credit rating and puts us in a very unique advantage in many international trade agreements.

Clinton also didn't get us bogged down in unnecessary conflicts around the globe...he was quite moderate when it came to foreign policy. Being "at peace" had a tremendous impact on our ability as a nation to focus financial resources where they were better needed.

Bottom line, if you are going to attempt to do a historic analysis....look at the WHOLE picture.

Ah, so you know what his policies did better than the president himself, eh? :lol:

The tech boom started before his deregulation did, and was also hugely lucrative to countries that kept their regulation. There is no evidence whatsoever that we "needed" to deregulate everything, when the boom was already happening, and also came quite strongly to well-regulated countries.

Even if that were not the case, I don't think a few-year boom for a few million people was worth a recession so severe that it destroyed the retirement and education of tens of millions. That is the epitome of short-sightedness.

I also don't think the growth of imaginary numbers in New York is worth the destitution of real living people. Places like China thinks that it is, but I like to think America cares about its people more than that.

Having a deficit does nothing to our international credit rating. That is complete bull. As long as payments are made on time, it is in fact a positive. The US currently has a AAA rating, which is the highest there is, despite its debt.

What, do you think they invented an extra special, extra-high rating for the Clinton years? :lol:

The US had an AAA rating continuously from 1917 to 2011 (after the partly-Clinton caused recession). Clinton did nothing at all to improve our credit rating, because it was already as good as it gets, despite being in debt at various points in time. Just like with individual people, paying debt is good, not bad. It's only if it's not paid that it's a problem.
 
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Hillary Clinton's first Presidential decision was to pick a person who not only talks about his faith but has lived it, used his high-powered legal education to advance civil rights, has had success at every level of government, and currently sits on the most important foreign policy committees in the Senate. Or, in other words, she picked the best person for the job. I can now sleep easier at night knowing, that if the Republicans succeed in impeaching Hillary, which you 100% know they will try to do, we will have a good, capable man to lead our country.
 
It just strikes me that in Kaine she has chosen a running-mate that appeals to exactly the same demographic and constituency that she most appeals to: moderate, centrist types that approve of the political status quo in Washington. An insider, another member of the Washington club.
 
Yeah, because they all live in prison now -- prisons which now openly declare increasing recidivism as their goal on their pamphlets -- because they can't even find a place to live upon release.

America is the most incarcerated population in the world now, and made no effort to try to rehabilitate or provide opportunity to the community.

And if you'll note, now that everyone has seen what his policies have really done, Bill Clinton is rather hated by much of the black community.

So your issue is not that they were incarcerated in the first place, but rather that nothing was done to get them back into society when they got out.

Is that right?
 
So your issue is not that they were incarcerated in the first place, but rather that nothing was done to get them back into society when they got out.

Is that right?

For the most part, yes.

I have a problem with the changes to sentencing for certain drugs mostly found in the black community, and I have a problem generally with the drug war. But yes, my main contention is that prisons make no effort to rehabilitate, and that avenues people might have taken to get back on their feet were taken away (housing options limited, educational opportunities slashed, etc).
 
that's why I am supporting Trump. I don't want justices who can find a right for stuff that the founders never intended in the ninth but pretend that the second amendment doesn't apply to individuals. We have to start rolling back the commerce clause as a blank check for congressional power.

That is exactly why I think its foolish to vote 3rd party this time around. If you are a conservative, then you would be foolish to allow a Democrat to appoint 3 justices. If you are a liberal, then you would be foolish to allow a Republican to appoint 3 justices.

Ideally the court would remain fairly balanced, but that simply is not going to be the case this time.
 
That is exactly why I think its foolish to vote 3rd party this time around. If you are a conservative, then you would be foolish to allow a Democrat to appoint 3 justices. If you are a liberal, then you would be foolish to allow a Republican to appoint 3 justices.

Ideally the court would remain fairly balanced, but that simply is not going to be the case this time.
Sincere question.....no baiting here whatsoever: So what would your advice be to say, a person inclined to vote for Trump in an all blue, winner-take-all state that you know will go to Clinton? Or vice-versa?

** Note: This fiasco we call the electoral college and the entrenched 2-party system needs to die in my honest opinion. Of course, that's irrelevant at this point I know.
 
That is exactly why I think its foolish to vote 3rd party this time around. If you are a conservative, then you would be foolish to allow a Democrat to appoint 3 justices. If you are a liberal, then you would be foolish to allow a Republican to appoint 3 justices.

Ideally the court would remain fairly balanced, but that simply is not going to be the case this time.

You see, realistically, there are very few states that will be "up for grabs". Sadly, a great number of votes wont count essentially, regardless of who one votes for. That's America!
 
Sincere question.....no baiting here whatsoever: So what would your advice be to say, a person inclined to vote for Trump in an all blue, winner-take-all state that you know will go to Clinton? Or vice-versa?

** Note: This fiasco we call the electoral college and the entrenched 2-party system needs to die in my honest opinion. Of course, that's irrelevant at this point I know.

The idea that getting 51% of the popular vote within a state deserves getting 100% of that state's electoral votes is ridiculous. Each state's electors should be assigned proportionally like NE does now.
 
By much? His wife is enjoying nearly 100% support in polling by the black community. She may well end up doing better with blacks come November than even Obama did. Our high prison rate is primarily due to laws passed over the last 25 years in state legislators, not the 94 crime bill. What the 94 crime bill did was put 100,000 new officers on the streets, put billions into crime prevention programs, established sex offender registries, targeted gangs, banned assault weapons, and established the death penalty for drive by shooting deaths, terrorism, and civil rights murders. It also established hate crimes. There was also the Violence Against Women Act that made it much easier to prosecute men that abused women. The portion that Bill Clinton now regrets was the 3 strikes provision. Even that had huge support in the minority communities at the time though.

The biggest problem with prison overcrowding though was all the state 3 strikes laws that were passed. Like I say though, it's easy to criticize it all now, but back in the 80s and early 90s there were inner cities that were literally so dangerous that you would have better luck trying to walk through ISIS controlled territory than walking through one of them unscathed.
HRC has trouble with white male voters. Her choice does well there. He has shown he can work with Republicans. The party has swung to the left and he adds balance
While against the DP, he when running for office stated he would follow the laws. He pardoned 1 and signed off on the rest.
HRC needs him for that and the swing States.
He has working class roots.
 
HRC has trouble with white male voters. Her choice does well there. He has shown he can work with Republicans. The party has swung to the left and he adds balance
While against the DP, he when running for office stated he would follow the laws. He pardoned 1 and signed off on the rest.
HRC needs him for that and the swing States.
He has working class roots.

Its been several election cycles since Democrats have won white male voters.
 
Its been several election cycles since Democrats have won white male voters.
Well her numbers suck. In crucial states a few points can make the difference.
 
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