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Would you support such a law?

Is the Welfare State described a good idea for USA?

  • Yes.

    Votes: 7 13.5%

  • Somewhat.

    Votes: 12 23.1%

  • No.

    Votes: 33 63.5%
  • Total voters
    52
Henrin said:
And all you have to pay for yourself is entertainment. Is that about right?
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Fortunately my parents support me. Millions of other disabled live on the streets or in prisons of USA.
 
SCitizen said:
If you do not like the idea of Welfare State do not blame me -- the legislature of Finland, Sweden, Norway, and Denmark had decades of experience. The Welfare Amendment would declare that every citizen has a right to

-- Housing -- at least a room in a dormitory
-- Reasonable food -- including Kosher and Halal and Greek Orthodox
-- Reasonable medical care including psychological therapy
-- Personal spending money of $300/month

Of course if someone still commits a crime they should be jailed, but in much better conditions then in modern USA.
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Tens of millions of disabled people in USA suffer tremendously due to lack of reasonable help. Millions of them become prisoners, and now 50,000 people a year die from drugs:

cdcwonder2016_1.jpg
 
Even a relatively moderate Autism and Depression prevents many people from finding a job.

Myself and perhaps ten to thirty million other people in USA can not find a job due to disability. I can function very well, but working requires much greater ability and effort.
 
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SCitizen said:
If you do not like the idea of Welfare State do not blame me -- the legislature of Finland, Sweden, Norway, and Denmark had decades of experience. The Welfare Amendment would declare that every citizen has a right to

-- Housing -- at least a room in a dormitory
-- Reasonable food -- including Kosher and Halal and Greek Orthodox
-- Reasonable medical care including psychological therapy
-- Personal spending money of $300/month

Of course if someone still commits a crime they should be jailed, but in much better conditions then in modern USA.
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Isn't this, in a way, what true communism was supposed to be about?
 
I have no problem with people on welfare but only if they deserve or actually need it.

I believe social programs such as welfare, disability and food stamps should have eligibility requirement tighten. Welfare should have a time limit of no more than five years to able body citizens.
 
antiquity said:
I have no problem with people on welfare but only if they deserve or actually need it.

I believe social programs such as welfare, disability and food stamps should have eligibility requirement tighten. Welfare should have a time limit of no more than five years to able body citizens.
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The vast majority of people who can not find a job are disabled. Even able body people may be moderately or severely disabled.
 
antiquity said:
>> USA has one of the worst Human Rights records.

BS....please provide evidence....According to US News we rank 7th...hardly one of the worst.
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Historically, USA had Slavery and started many wars in 20th century.

Now USA incarcerates hundreds of thousands people with disability.
 
SCitizen said:
Historically, USA had Slavery and started many wars in 20th century.

Now USA incarcerates hundreds of thousands people with disability.
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That is not evidence, you are entitled to your own opinions but not to your own facts.

All the major wars and conflict in the 20th Century had a Democratic president in power.

Which wars are you talking about...not WWI, not WWII, Not the Korean war (which wasn't a war it was a conflict and a treaty obligation) the Vietnam war was predicated on a LBJ's lie and again the SEATO treaty.

Slavery was done by Africans capturing African (which is still going on today) and selling them to Netherlands slave traders. Almost every country in the world has had slavery at one time or the other and some still do today. American Indians held slaves right into the 20th century.

Hundreds of thousands? Your last statement is pure fabrication.
 
SCitizen said:
The vast majority of people who can not find a job are disabled. Even able body people may be moderately or severely disabled.
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What are you on about? I said the eligibility should be tighten not eliminated.
 
antiquity said:
>> Now USA incarcerates hundreds of thousands people with disability.

Hundreds of thousands? Your last statement is pure fabrication.
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The data is here:

Some come into contact with the criminal justice system. In a 2006 Special Report, the Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS) estimated that 705,600 mentally ill adults were incarcerated in state prisons, 78,800 in federal prisons and 479,900 in local jails.
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TurtleDude said:
how many threads are you going to start up here that almost immediately become a fluffing of Scandinavian welfare-socialism

how about an amendment that says "your existence is not grounds for other people to be taxed to support you"?
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I think that statement may be wrong, though.

If not now, at some point in the near future.

Because the other options are:
  • You exist and cannot or will not support yourself, so you die.
  • You exist and cannot or will not support yourself, so you must rely on charity, which is subject to the vagaries of donations.

In the former case, most people aren't OK with people dying because no one helped them (if they hear about it, that is).
In the latter case, charity clearly isn't providing enough support, since we still have people who are homeless (I'm not counting those who WANT to be homeless).


Because of this, it seems likely to me that at some point in the next decade or two we'll have at minimum multiple states that provide some form of support similar to what the OP describes, and possibly even a federal-level system for same.

Even though, personally, I dislike the idea of the government providing "spending money", I would support basic housing, food, and healthcare.
And the stipend thing may happen sooner than I think, depending on how far automation of jobs goes in my lifetime.
 
The Mark said:
I think that statement may be wrong, though.

If not now, at some point in the near future.

Because the other options are:
  • You exist and cannot or will not support yourself, so you die.
  • You exist and cannot or will not support yourself, so you must rely on charity, which is subject to the vagaries of donations.

In the former case, most people aren't OK with people dying because no one helped them (if they hear about it, that is).
In the latter case, charity clearly isn't providing enough support, since we still have people who are homeless (I'm not counting those who WANT to be homeless).


Because of this, it seems likely to me that at some point in the next decade or two we'll have at minimum multiple states that provide some form of support similar to what the OP describes, and possibly even a federal-level system for same.
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I agree 100%. Moreover, in USA many people who can not support themselves become drug dealers or professional thieves.
 
SCitizen said:
I agree 100%. Moreover, in USA many people who can not support themselves become drug dealers or professional thieves.
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society has both a vested interest and a duty in discouraging those who are not able to properly care for children from having them.
 
TurtleDude said:
society has both a vested interest and a duty in discouraging those who are not able to properly care for children from having them.
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Scandinavia enables poor people to care for children. Scandinavia has one of the strongest child protective systems in the World.
 
SCitizen said:
Scandinavia enables poor people to care for children. Scandinavia has one of the strongest child protective systems in the World.
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I care not-this is the USA. what works in Scandinavia is not likely to work here. and I doubt you have the sort of irresponsible breeding patterns there either
 
TurtleDude said:
what works in Scandinavia is not likely to work here.
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I do not know. When people ask me what would be my version of an ideal law, I say that I do not know. I am just a small person. But thousands of experts have worked decades in creating the laws of Scandinavia which do work much better. Thus, they should be followed.
 
SCitizen said:
I do not know. When people ask me what would be my version of an ideal law, I say that I do not know. I am just a small person. But thousands of experts have worked decades in creating the laws of Scandinavia which do work much better. Thus, they should be followed.
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sorry-lots of us have no use for socialism, gun bans and some of the other crap that exist in Scandinavia
 
TurtleDude said:
sorry-lots of us have no use for socialism, gun bans and some of the other crap that exist in Scandinavia
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I agree 100% -- most people do not need help. But tens of millions of Americans are suffering enormously due to lack of help. And 20,000 Americans a year kill themselves with guns. And 55,000 Americans overdose on drugs since they do not have free mental health like Swedes do.

As a teenager I thought I had best solution for every issue. Now I would rely on thousands on expert years of work done by Scandinavian governments.
 
SCitizen said:
If you do not like the idea of Welfare State do not blame me -- the legislature of Finland, Sweden, Norway, and Denmark had decades of experience. The Welfare Amendment would declare that every citizen has a right to

-- Housing -- at least a room in a dormitory
-- Reasonable food -- including Kosher and Halal and Greek Orthodox
-- Reasonable medical care including psychological therapy
-- Personal spending money of $300/month

Of course if someone still commits a crime they should be jailed, but in much better conditions then in modern USA.
Click to expand...

I say yes to the first three and no to the last one. On a minimum income, they should do fine if the other three things are being covered.
 
SCitizen said:
I agree 100% -- most people do not need help. But tens of millions of Americans are suffering enormously due to lack of help. And 20,000 Americans a year kill themselves with guns. And 55,000 Americans overdose on drugs since they do not have free mental health like Swedes do.

As a teenager I thought I had best solution for every issue. Now I would rely on thousands on expert years of work done by Scandinavian governments.
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what makes them experts?
 
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