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When should a business be legally allowed to be able to refuse service to a customer?

When should a business be legally allowed to be able to refuse service to a customer?

  • Total voters
    65
Re: When should a business be legally allowed to be able to refuse service to a custo

Howler63 said:
I think it's your business and you should server whomever you see fit. Let the market decide. In this modern age, a restaurant that doesn't serve blacks would be out of business in 5 mins.
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Agree. We have already won the war against destructive racism. It's time to stop fighting it. I would walk out of any restaurant who refused to serve a black person, Muslim, Hispanic, Asian or whatever and would never go back. And that restaurant would not be getting any kind of recommendation from me. I think at least 90% of people these days would likely do the same.

At the same time, any businessman stupid enough to cut his own throat in that way should have complete liberty to do so.
 
Re: When should a business be legally allowed to be able to refuse service to a custo

AlbqOwl said:
Agree. We have already won the war against harmful racism. It's time to stop fighting it. I would walk out of any restaurant who refused to serve a black person, Muslim, Hispanic, Asian or whatever and would never go back. And that restaurant would not be getting any kind of recommendation from me. I think at least 90% of people these days would likely do the same.
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I would even go further than that by leaving reviews and such that describe such activities EVERYWHERE. This is market force in action.
 
Re: When should a business be legally allowed to be able to refuse service to a custo

Russell797 said:
Even if public shaming and protests did shut them down the damage would have already been done. Someone would have suffered an act of bigotry.
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Too bad. This is still a free country, despite the efforts of pseudo-liberals to destroy our personal liberties. Anyone is free to hate the living guts of anyone he pleases, for any reason whatever. In all but a few exceptional situations, anyone should also be free to contract for legitimate goods and services, or to decline to, with anyone else.

The constitutional authority for the federal public accommodations law, Title II of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, is Congress's power to regulate interstate commerce. That was and is a contrivance. I've read Katzenbach v. McClung, and the commerce clause arguments are far-fetched. But pseudo-liberals don't care about constitutional authority for the noble and wondrous measures they want to impose on other people by law. What matters to them is the warm, self-righteous glow they feel, when they force less morally evolved beings than themselves to do whatever the pseudo-liberals think is noble and wondrous.

I would like my own state's law to impose a duty to serve on the two categories of businesses traditionally subject to it: Innkeepers and common carriers. No business should be allowed to deny a person shelter or a meal in a remote area during severe weather, or to deny a ride to someone who, for all the carrier knows, has a medical emergency and needs to go to the hospital. I might include a few more types of vital business, but I certainly would not use the state public accommodations law to force everyone to be nice to everyone else.

In one case that went to the Supreme Court, a state public accommodations law classified a local council of the Boy Scouts as a public accommodation. In another, the law classified the Boston St. Patrick's Day Parade! as a public accommodation. In both cases, the operators were punished for refusing persons solely because they were homosexual, and in both cases the homosexual challengers lost. The Court held both laws invalid on First Amendment grounds, one for violating the freedom of association, and the other for violating the freedom of speech. Social justice warriors despise the First Amendment almost as much as they do the Second and the Tenth.
 
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Re: When should a business be legally allowed to be able to refuse service to a custo

I don't see an answer in the poll that I like sufficiently to support.

Just as a matter of principle, I don't understand why anyone would go into a service provider/consumer oriented business if you believe you will feel the need to deny services to anyone who isn't directly harming your business or the enjoyment of your customers. As an entrepreneur, you shouldn't have any "feelings" and/or "beliefs" that cause you to deny services to any who don't share those "feelings" and/or "beliefs". The qualifier, of course, is if your business is based on your "feelings" and/or "beliefs".

People with such rigid belief systems and/or judgmental superiority shouldn't go into any business that serves the general public.
 
Re: When should a business be legally allowed to be able to refuse service to a custo

Howler63 said:
I think it's your business and you should server whomever you see fit. Let the market decide. In this modern age, a restaurant that doesn't serve blacks would be out of business in 5 mins.
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No it wouldn't. There are a lot of bigots that would eat there. What people need to realize is that obtaining a business license does not give the licensee permission to make up their own rules. I love when fools try to say its ok to disregard the laws if you post a sign that says "Can refuse service to anyone". If you want to do business in the community you have to agree to abide by the laws.
 
Re: When should a business be legally allowed to be able to refuse service to a custo

Henrin said:
I should be able to determine what reasons I want to take part in a transaction of my property. If I don't like the individual because he's a rude SOB or because of his race, gender, orientation, religious beliefs, or whatever then I should be able to use that reason too. No one has a right to buy my property against my wishes. And I'm not in business when I'm selling my house. I am determining who I wish to have something I cared about and took care of for however long I owned it. Oh and yes, knowing who the other party is just so happens to be something I care about. If you wish to buy my property and at the same time keep your identity private then frankly I don't want to sell you anything.
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Fortunately the law doesn't agree with you, but it isn't the first time now is it?

I kinda figured you'd get along with a rude SOB, birds of a feather and all that... just having a little fun ;)

But the rest is against federal law and rightfully so. Your demand to ignore bias laws is how whites only communities continue. You will never live in that house again, why do you care once the bank financing the sale puts that money in your account? You want to be able to tell the new buyers the color to paint the house? What trees to plant in the yard?

If you want a 'loved' possession to go to a good new owner what does race or sexual orientation have to do with that? FYI if you use a bank, real estate agency you are in business... Now private sale where you act as agent and bank... well knock yourself out... :peace
 
Re: When should a business be legally allowed to be able to refuse service to a custo

matchlight said:
. Anyone is free to hate the living guts of anyone he pleases, for any reason whatever.
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Absolutely....people are free to their individual bigoted views

matchlight said:
In all but a few exceptional situations, anyone should also be free to contract for legitimate goods and services, or to decline to, with anyone else.
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Wrong. Obtaining a business license does not give the licensee authority to right their own rules. They must abide by the laws of this country.




matchlight said:
I would like my own state's law to impose a duty to serve on the two categories of businesses traditionally subject to it: Innkeepers and common carriers. No business should be allowed to deny a person shelter or a meal in a remote area during severe weather, or to deny a ride to someone who, for all the carrier knows, has a medical emergency and needs to go to the hospital. I might include a few more types of business, but I certainly would not use the state public accommodations law to force everyone to be nice to everyone else. I would probably be irritated if a business declined to deal with me, but I would just go and give my business to someone else who wanted it.
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Do you realize how ridiculous this is? The remote or severe weather exception to civil rights? That is downright laughable.
 
Re: When should a business be legally allowed to be able to refuse service to a custo

disneydude said:
No it wouldn't. There are a lot of bigots that would eat there. What people need to realize is that obtaining a business license does not give the licensee permission to make up their own rules. I love when fools try to say its ok to disregard the laws if you post a sign that says "Can refuse service to anyone". If you want to do business in the community you have to agree to abide by the laws.
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I disagree. No one wants to be seen entering such an establishment. Not in this day and age. Not in America.
 
Re: When should a business be legally allowed to be able to refuse service to a custo

Howler63 said:
I disagree. No one wants to be seen entering such an establishment. Not in this day and age. Not in America.
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Oh puh-lease. Look how many people are willing to admit that they would vote for Donald Trump. Don't kid yourself.
 
Re: When should a business be legally allowed to be able to refuse service to a custo

Howler63 said:
I disagree. No one wants to be seen entering such an establishment. Not in this day and age. Not in America.
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Just look at Chik-fil-A. The bigots flocked to support Chik-Fil-A .....and look and Denny's...a chain known to have a history of discriminatory treatment of blacks. It has no trouble at all attracting customers.
 
Re: When should a business be legally allowed to be able to refuse service to a custo

Howler63 said:
I would even go further than that by leaving reviews and such that describe such activities EVERYWHERE. This is market force in action.
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That too.

But I would not join an organized boycott of that restaurant or take any other punitive measures against the restaurant owner as I believe that violates the restaurant owner's constitution rights to live his life as he chooses. But it remains my constitutional right to not condone or support the choices that he makes.
 
Re: When should a business be legally allowed to be able to refuse service to a custo

disneydude said:
Just look at Chik-fil-A. The bigots flocked to support Chik-Fil-A .....and look and Denny's...a chain known to have a history of discriminatory treatment of blacks. It has no trouble at all attracting customers.
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Supporting a business because they took a religious stance isn't the same thing as refusing services based on ethnicity or color. I would have expected other Christians to support Christians. This surprised you?
 
Re: When should a business be legally allowed to be able to refuse service to a custo

Howler63 said:
One has nothing to do with the other.
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Sure it does. There a millions of people in this country that will openly support a sexist, misogynist, racist candidate. If they will do that...they certainly aren't going to stop patronizing a racist, sexist or homophobic business.
 
Re: When should a business be legally allowed to be able to refuse service to a custo

Howler63 said:
Supporting a business because they took a religious stance isn't the same thing as refusing services based on ethnicity or color. I would have expected other Christians to support Christians. This surprised you?
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Absolutely it is. It is a perfect example that dispels your claim. There are plenty of bigots out there that will support racist, sexist, homophobic businesses. You just aren't willing to admit it.
 
Re: When should a business be legally allowed to be able to refuse service to a custo

Howler63 said:
I think it's your business and you should server whomever you see fit. Let the market decide. In this modern age, a restaurant that doesn't serve blacks would be out of business in 5 mins.
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So, your answer to this poll was 1) anytime they want, for any reason? Let the market decide? Not the government?
 
Re: When should a business be legally allowed to be able to refuse service to a custo

Howler63 said:
Supporting a business because they took a religious stance isn't the same thing as refusing services based on ethnicity or color. I would have expected other Christians to support Christians. This surprised you?
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If right-wing Christians are expected to support right-wing Christians...what makes you think that bigots won't support other bigots?
 
Re: When should a business be legally allowed to be able to refuse service to a custo

Aberration said:
I have the freedom of association and the right to the product of my labor. It doesnt matter the laws. I will still find a way not to serve you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Don't forget your right to property.

Basically liberals are violating the first, fourth, thirteenth, and the fourteenth amendment(ironically) with anti-discrimination laws. Oh, and anti-discrimination laws can violate both the right to association and or the right to free speech.

Btw, I have been asking this question forever and have never gotten an answer, but what the hell, lets try again. Liberals, how can the state force people to sell their property and not violate the fourteen amendment?

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
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Oh and liberals, if you wouldn't mind, where is business held to section 1 of the fourteen amendment? Why are you claiming that an amendment that binds terms to states applies to a party that clearly is not a state? Do you have some weird reading problem or what? Do you actually know the definition of the word state?
 
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Re: When should a business be legally allowed to be able to refuse service to a custo

Howler63 said:
Agreed, and those laws had a place in that time. Not today.
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The numbers haven't changed, minorities are still minorities, race hate crimes still occur, financial institutions are still paying settlements for racial bias, and they don't suffer from a lack of customers...

Nope, now more than ever... :peace
 
Re: When should a business be legally allowed to be able to refuse service to a custo

disneydude said:
Wrong. Obtaining a business license does not give the licensee authority to right their own rules. They must abide by the laws of this country.
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This is not a true-false test, and you are not grading me. It was made clear earlier that this thread is about what the law should be. What "the laws of this country" are in this regard depends largely on what state a person is in. In quite a few states, for example, a business owner is free to decline to contract for goods or services with a person solely because that person is a homosexual. That's as it should be.

Do you realize how ridiculous this is? The remote or severe weather exception to civil rights? That is downright laughable.
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They say that the simple are easily amused. The duty imposed on those two types of public accommodations under common law existed, and largely for the reasons involving public health and safety that I mentioned. Whether that fact happens to peeve you is irrelevant.
 
Re: When should a business be legally allowed to be able to refuse service to a custo

disneydude said:
Absolutely it is. It is a perfect example that dispels your claim. There are plenty of bigots out there that will support racist, sexist, homophobic businesses. You just aren't willing to admit it.
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Then work on changing their mind so they voluntarily do what you want. :shrug:
 
Re: When should a business be legally allowed to be able to refuse service to a custo

radcen said:
When should a business be legally allowed to be able to refuse service to a customer?

1) Anytime they want, for any reason.
2) For things the customer can control, i.e. dress, attitude, hygiene, etc., but not for things they cannot control, i.e. sex, race/ethnicity, etc.
3) Never.
4) Somewhere in between. (Please elaborate)
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Anytime, anywhere, for any reason they want. Free country.
 
Re: When should a business be legally allowed to be able to refuse service to a custo

Current laws are actually pretty good, although a few gaps remain.

A business that operates as a public accommodation is not empowered to arbitrarily decide who is, and is not, a member of the public. As such, they cannot refuse service on the basis of race, class, gender or religion. In some jurisdictions -- not enough IMO -- they also cannot refuse service on the basis of sexual orientation.

The business still can refuse service. They cannot do so arbitrarily. I.e. in theory, an employee cannot make up a "No Trucker Caps" rule on the spot, and enforce it sporadically. Such rules ought to be consistently applied.
 
Re: When should a business be legally allowed to be able to refuse service to a custo

disneydude said:
Sure it does. There a millions of people in this country that will openly support a sexist, misogynist, racist candidate. If they will do that...they certainly aren't going to stop patronizing a racist, sexist or homophobic business.
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Has Trump openly declared himself to be any of these things as posting a 'White Only' sign would do?

Of course not.

You're stretching.
 
Re: When should a business be legally allowed to be able to refuse service to a custo

disneydude said:
Wrong. Obtaining a business license does not give the licensee authority to right their own rules. They must abide by the laws of this country.
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Question: Why should people be required to obtain a business license to use their property as a business?
 
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