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Was the Orlando shootings and attack on the United States, on LGBT...

Was the Orlando shootings and attack on the United States, on LGBT, or both?

  • Total voters
    55
  • Poll closed .
Nilly said:
Primarily, it was an attack on the LGBT community fueled by homophobia. It's a stark reminder that the LGBT community are still targets, even despite the steps they have taken towards equality recently.

There has been a long history of violence against the LGBT community, the New Orleans arson that was left unsolved, the Eric Rudolph bombing that nobody gave a damn about until he then went and bombed the Olympics. Even after being victims of horrific attacks, the reaction towards the LGBT community was one of revulsion and horror. That kind of hatred, where you're despised for being who you are is not forgotten easily, and I don't think it's difficult to see why many of the LGBT community find it difficult to accept this as being an attack on America in general rather than an attack on them.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's great step forward that the American response to this atrocity is now one of solidarity, rather than indifference to the gay community but there's a great deal of short term memory loss here of wounds to the LGBT community that have not yet healed. It's important to remember that there are still messages and articles out there that are saying that the 'faggot's deserved this', and not all these messages are coming from Islamic mouthpieces.

My last thought on the topic is how despicable I find those who talk about how the gay community should be against the muslim community now. The people who now seek to pit them against each other, as if to say 'well, now that you gay's are on our side it's about time you start persecuting people like we do'. This is not a matter of Muslims vs gays, many in the muslim community face the same hatred and repulsion that the LGBT community has faced.
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Glenn Greenwald has a fantastic write-up on that very thing.

https://theintercept.com/2016/06/13...onize-islam-and-justify-anti-muslim-policies/
 
radcen said:
Was the Orlando shootings and attack on the United States, on LGBT, both, or something else?
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I say the United States. To ISIS and other Islamic terrorists the homosexuals, Christians,Catholics, Mormons, atheists, Jews, pagans, and Muslims who do not practice ISIS's denomination are all infidels in their mind and therefore the same to them. That could have just as easily been a christian church. catholic church, synagogue,Mormon church a straight night club, shopping mall, mosque that practices a different denomination of ISLAM or any other location with lots of easy targets.
 
radcen said:
Was the Orlando shootings and attack on the United States, on LGBT, both, or something else?
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I voted both because thats how it washes out by default

an attack like that is an attack on us all, 49 americans were murdered and many more injured thats an attack on us . .

but the reality is the only person that really knows is dead . . .

in his head he may have only been attacking gays but thats not how the reality of the end game works out . .
 
Tanngrisnir said:
Glenn Greenwald has a fantastic write-up on that very thing.

https://theintercept.com/2016/06/13...onize-islam-and-justify-anti-muslim-policies/
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jamesrage said:
I say the United States. To ISIS and other Islamic terrorists the homosexuals, Christians,Catholics, Mormons, atheists, Jews, pagans, and Muslims who do not practice ISIS's denomination are all infidels in their mind and therefore the same to them. That could have just as easily been a christian church. catholic church, synagogue,Mormon church a straight night club, shopping mall, mosque that practices a different denomination of ISLAM or any other location with lots of easy targets.
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Great article. Jamesrage, you might benefit from reading it. You say this could have easily been a christian church/synagogue/shopping mall. But it also could have just as easily been a christian/jewish/atheist shooter and in the past it has been. It's so disingenuous for us to consider this an attack by Muslims on all of us when the exact same things have been perpetrated by us on the LGBT community in the past, and how did we react on those attacks? We looked on at the LGBT community with horror and revulsion, and practically ignored that it happened at all.

Solidarity is great, it's amazing the outpour that has come out for the victims of this attack, but we'd be wise to remember that the wounds inflicted by us on the LGBT community at large aren't so easily healed.

I am not Orlando.
In Orlando, it was a felony to have gay sex until 1971 and a misdemeanor until 2003. The law, while unenforceable, is still on the books.
In Orlando, it was not legal for gay couples to adopt children until last year.
In Orlando, it is legal to pay someone to kidnap your child and torture them until they stop identifying as LGBT.
In Orlando, the people who have been outed when they were shot in a gay night club can, when they get out of the hospital, be legally fired.
If they get out of the hospital at all, since Orlando affirms doctors' "right" to refuse to treat them at all.
In Orlando, a hate crime against me doesn't count.
I am not Orlando. Orlando was not the target. Orlando was the shooter. Orlando is what 49 people like me could not survive. #IamPulse
Credit: Johann Koehle (Facebook)
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Bootlace said:
His wife said they scoped out disneyworld too.
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well 'gay days' at disney world is approaching...

there's dozens of other clubs at the city he could've attacked, and attacking a 'heterosexual' club before claiming jihad would make no sense

then there's the reports from coworkers he frequently gay bashed
 
chromium said:
well 'gay days' at disney world is approaching...

there's dozens of other clubs at the city he could've attacked, and attacking a 'heterosexual' club before claiming jihad would make no sense

then there's the reports from coworkers he frequently gay bashed
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I admit I don't know much about the gay but was thinking his target was gay bar or Disney world. My thought was he was targeting a crowded place and gay wasn't really a priority to him. I've never been gay, never been to Disney world, and never been to Florida. But gay bar or Disney world appeared to me to not have much similarities. I guess I could be wrong.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
If the Orlando terrorist had a history of saying racist things about blacks and then last weekend walked into an NAACP office and shot everyone he could in there while crediting his actions to ISIS, we would not say this was primarily a terrorist attack against our freedoms or some other abstract concept, we would say it was a terrorist attack that primarily targeted African Americans and was thus both an act of terrorism and a hate crime.

The only reason why some on the right are reluctant to call this what it is, a hate crime as well as an act of terrorism, is that many on the socially conservative right do not want to admit that gays and lesbians have been targets of hate crimes because they have fought including LGBT individuals in state and federal hate crime laws. This psychopath went into a gay club to target gays and lesbians. That is why he was there. Lets call a spade a spade here. It was a terrorist attack primarily aimed at gays and lesbians. It is a slap in the face to the LGBT community to downplay that aspect of it.

Finally this notion that he may well have been gay or bi himself does not diminish that at all. There were plenty of slave owners that raped their slaves. That did not mean they were not racists themselves.
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not only that but 'america' is 4 million square miles. It most definitely was not attacked, less than a square mile of it was and it was a gay club for the obvious reason that it's more objectionable to religious fundamentalists than other clubs
 
The guy grew up with a Islamic Supremacist as a father...............................what could possibly go wrong?
 
Bootlace said:
I admit I don't know much about the gay but was thinking his target was gay bar or Disney world. My thought was he was targeting a crowded place and gay wasn't really a priority to him. I've never been gay, never been to Disney world, and never been to Florida. But gay bar or Disney world appeared to me to not have much similarities. I guess I could be wrong.
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disney world is one of the gayest places on earth

and now that i google this, i was probably right

Orlando gunman may have visited Disney World during Gay Days - LA Times

"Omar Mateen had visited a number of Disney properties since April...It’s possible that Mateen’s visit overlapped with Gay Days Orlando, which went from May 31 to June 6"

evidently he decided the club would make an easier target. I went once as a kid and there's just so many places to flee he probably gave up that idea
 
chromium said:
disney world is one of the gayest places on earth

and now that i google this, i was probably right

Orlando gunman may have visited Disney World during Gay Days - LA Times

"Omar Mateen had visited a number of Disney properties since April...It’s possible that Mateen’s visit overlapped with Gay Days Orlando, which went from May 31 to June 6"

evidently he decided the club would make an easier target. I went once as a kid and there's just so many places to flee he probably gave up that idea
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I'm not going to disagree and my thoughts that Disney world was a place for family and children was out of ignorance.
 
RetiredUSN said:
The guy grew up with a Islamic Supremacist as a father...............................what could possibly go wrong?
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honestly i wish our laws were sensible enough that he were indictable as an accomplice or something. The idea our environment, even years ago, doesn't shape our actions at all is so damn antiquated
 
Bootlace said:
I'm not going to disagree and my thoughts that Disney world was a place for family and children was out of ignorance.
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right because gay people don't have family or kids

ignorant indeed
 
chromium said:
right because gay people don't have family or kids

ignorant indeed
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Well if you feel insults are in order then by all means have at it. That wasn't my intent.
I visualized Disney world as a place for mom and dad to take their kids to enjoy Mickey and goody et al. I didn't know it was a gay fest. But thanks for the knowledge.
 
Last edited:
I don't view them as reasons. But more like excuses.

Of course, the facts aren't all in yet but going on what we have been told so far, here is my crystal ball prediction.

First and foremost, the man had a sick mind. It has been a long time coming. It was reported today that as a child, he was suspended from school for 2 weeks for threatening to come to the school and shoot everybody.

It is now learned that he was a closeted homosexual. His own wife stated that she believes that is so and now all his gay skeletons are coming out of the closet.

It is reported that his dad is a disillusioned radical and one can imagine how someone like that would screw up a kids head.

So. Here we have a man with a sick brain, sexuality crisis, cultural stigmas that defy everything he is supposed to be.

I think he was a frustrated, mentally ill, sick son of a bitch. He may have had his deathbed Isis conversion but that was just a convenient excuse to attempt to give some purpose to his senseless mental crisis. Perhaps, to show daddy, once and for all that he is a good little martyr for Allah instead of a detested gay man.

Just a thought.........
 
chromium said:
not only that but 'america' is 4 million square miles. It most definitely was not attacked, less than a square mile of it was and it was a gay club for the obvious reason that it's more objectionable to religious fundamentalists than other clubs
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Dumbest... thing.. I... have... ever... read.

I guess Pearl Harbor and 9/11 weren't attacks on America, either.

*facepalm*
 
radcen said:
Dumbest... thing.. I... have... ever... read.

I guess Pearl Harbor and 9/11 weren't attacks on America, either.

*facepalm*
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Those attacks weren't specifically targeted at a particular demographic of Americans.

Americans weren't very quick to own the 1973 attacks against the New Orleans gayclub arson attack, nor were they quick to own the 1997 gayclub bombings by Eric Rudolph (although they did when the same dude bombed the Atlanta Olympics). Nor have they been quick to condemn the thousands of hate crimes that the LGBT community have suffered through over numerous decades. In fact, the usual American response to violence against homosexuals is one of disgust towards the victims.

But now a muslim dude (American born, remember) did it I guess we can claim that we're all the victims too? *facepalm*
 
Bootlace said:
Well if you feel insults are in order then by all means have at it. That wasn't my intent.
I visualized Disney world as a place for mom and dad to take their kids to enjoy Mickey and goody et al. I didn't know it was a gay fest. But thanks for the knowledge.
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Apart from the irrelevant sexual orientation aspect, what is the difference between that and some LGBT parents or relatives taking their children/relatives to Disney world?
 
The Mark said:
Apart from the irrelevant sexual orientation aspect, what is the difference between that and some LGBT parents or relatives taking their children/relatives to Disney world?
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None. So long as youre there to enjoy. But I wouldn't want to see people in assless chaps where I take my family.
 
antiquity said:
My take....since the Muslin religion is against gays and passages in the Quran states that...I have seen no evidence this attack had anything to do with gays (so far). It just happen that this nut case wanted a venue where a lot of people hung out and to him one spot was probably as good as another.
People should really stop reading this attack, by this terrorist, as a gay hater until all the facts are evident.
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Radical Muslims are gay haters. No need to look any further.
 
Don't yuh know, that American history only begins on September 11, 2001? Anything before that date is meaningless.

Americans are killing 50 Muslims/Arabs every hour of every day for what seems like an eternity. That is why they bomb wedding parties because they know that the complete community leadership shows up for a wedding and when they are wiped out by a drone, the Americans can move in to fill the vacuum.

Just like Israel, Israeli history began with rocket attacks from Hamas in 2006. Anything before that was just a simple struggle for a homeland.

The Question is:

Was the Orlando shootings and attack on the United States, on LGBT, or both?

Maybe it was an attack on GMO's? Lots of folks don't like GMO's.

I remember the attack on a black church and where a state senator was killed. A senior government official was wiped out and Obama sent his vice president to shed a few tears at the funeral and screamed about "Gun Violence". Everybody screamed "Gun Violence" because don't yuh know that all the problems in the minority communities is all about gun violence?

But the world wide LGBT community is a very powerful group, almost as powerful as AIPAC.

Obama is gonna turn up himself at the funerals and scream out against "Hate" and not gun violence.

Calm
 
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Bootlace said:
None. So long as youre there to enjoy. But I wouldn't want to see people in assless chaps where I take my family.
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What on earth makes you think anyone would consider taking their kids to Disney world while wearing assless chaps, or for that matter that Disney world would let anyone in who was wearing them.

Furthermore, all chaps are assless, so that description is redundant. The actual issue you have a problem with is not wearing pants under chaps. But I digress.
 
Nilly said:
Great article. Jamesrage, you might benefit from reading it. You say this could have easily been a christian church/synagogue/shopping mall. But it also could have just as easily been a christian/jewish/atheist shooter and in the past it has been. It's so disingenuous for us to consider this an attack by Muslims on all of us when the exact same things have been perpetrated by us on the LGBT community in the past, and how did we react on those attacks? We looked on at the LGBT community with horror and revulsion, and practically ignored that it happened at all.

Solidarity is great, it's amazing the outpour that has come out for the victims of this attack, but we'd be wise to remember that the wounds inflicted by us on the LGBT community at large aren't so easily healed.
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I don't give a rats ass what some lib-tard article says. This is an attack by an ISIS member or ISIS sympathizer. Not an attack by a christian,catholic,jew,atheist,racist or whatever. To ISIS everyone who doesn't practice their denomination of Islam is a infidel and therefor an equal target for killing. That is a fact. Its why the club in Paris was attacked,that place in San Bernardino was attacked and why the club in Orlando was attacked. They will just as easily kill a devout christian, die hard atheist or Catholic,Muslim who doesn't practice ISIS's denomination as they would a homosexual.
 
Nilly said:
How about the fact that it happened at a gay bar and the vast majority that were killed (if not all) were gay ?
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So instead of a gay bar the shooting happened in a black bar or a political venue that would make it what?
 
Bootlace said:
I admit I don't know much about the gay but was thinking his target was gay bar or Disney world. My thought was he was targeting a crowded place and gay wasn't really a priority to him. I've never been gay, never been to Disney world, and never been to Florida. But gay bar or Disney world appeared to me to not have much similarities. I guess I could be wrong.
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I agree, the fact it was a gay bar is irreverent because he also scoped out Disney world. He just wanted to kill as many in a close environment as possible and Disney World might have a lot of people there it is hardly a close environment as compared to this club.
 
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