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Do victims bear any responsibility for sexual assault if they are 'blackout' drunk?

Do victims bear any responsibility for sexual assault if they are 'blackout' drunk?


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Re: Do victims bear any responsibility for sexual assault if they are 'blackout' drun

Again, no one is looking to excuse the rapist. They should be hauled off to the nearest Super-Max and thrown in wearing ass-less chaps. They are evil and they should PAY. But I fear that teaching women (and in some cases men) the core principles of self control and responsibility is being lost in the rush to go out and get the aforementioned chaps. We can't let that happen.

Young women, especially, NEED to be aware of the dangers of a lack of self control in such an environment.

What evironment is that, exactly?
 
Re: Do victims bear any responsibility for sexual assault if they are 'blackout' drun

And in this case, the example given in the OP, the victim is in no way responsible.

So if you get blackout drunk in a strange place, and get robbed, you share none of the responsibility for that robbery?
 
Re: Do victims bear any responsibility for sexual assault if they are 'blackout' drun

And in this case, the example given in the OP, the victim is in no way responsible.

The literature seems to show that alcohol increases the probability of being raped. Knowing this one puts oneself willfully at risk. Persons are responsible for the risk they consciously take. So, if the girl did not know that she was behaving riskily, then she would no be responsible.
 
Re: Do victims bear any responsibility for sexual assault if they are 'blackout' drun

There are two things at play:

The opportunity to be a victim
The right not to be a victim

Getting drunk and passing out at a Hell's Angles party is one thing.
Doing the same thing at a frat party is another.
Legally they are the same, but one might expect some level of assault protection at a frat party.

Normal people do not have sex with women who are "easy" because they are unconscious or close to it.

Frankly, you would be safer passed out at a Hell's Angels party.
 
Re: Do victims bear any responsibility for sexual assault if they are 'blackout' drun

So if you get blackout drunk in a strange place, and get robbed, you share none of the responsibility for that robbery?

If you are the weakest or slowest person present do you share responsibility for being selected as a crime victim? I do not doubt that criminals are lazy and will pounce on the easiest target of opportunity possible but whether your weakness is self inflicted and temporary should not matter.
 
Re: Do victims bear any responsibility for sexual assault if they are 'blackout' drun

Don't get blackout drunk.

Know your surroundings and stay alert.

Know your limitations.

Keep your eye on your drinks and never resume drinking one that's you've not been watching.

Never accept drinks or drugs from strangers.

Never leave the crowded areas of a party.

Use the buddy system. Look out for each other and help each other stay alert.


My list could be used by a woman looking to protect herself. Yours will be ignored by a RAPIST.

See the difference?

So lets work so that my list isn't ignored by rapists, the majority of whom are just as inebriated as their victims, and doing a stupid opportunistic thing.
 
Re: Do victims bear any responsibility for sexual assault if they are 'blackout' drun

I don't know about "responsibility" so much as maybe knowing risk factors that come into play.

The interesting thing about alcohol and sex is that it is the only instance where there is a person absolved of their decision while drunk. I'm not talking passed out but every stage in between. By law, and this is for legitimate reasons, you can't give consent to have sex at about any level of intoxication. But this is the only area where your decision while impaired doesn't count.

You get drunk and beat your spouse, you get held accountable.
You get drunk and drive, you get held accountable.
You get drunk and have sex, no, you didn't know what you were doing.
 
Re: Do victims bear any responsibility for sexual assault if they are 'blackout' drun

So if you get blackout drunk in a strange place, and get robbed, you share none of the responsibility for that robbery?

Criminal responsibility? Absolutely not.

The literature seems to show that alcohol increases the probability of being raped. Knowing this one puts oneself willfully at risk. Persons are responsible for the risk they consciously take. So, if the girl did not know that she was behaving riskily, then she would no be responsible.
They are in no way legally responsible for someone elses' actions as your first reply to my comment stated... Being drunk is not against the law. Someone raping someone (even if they are drunk) is against the law.
 
Re: Do victims bear any responsibility for sexual assault if they are 'blackout' drun

I don't believe this for a second. Rapists are evil. But getting that drunk at a party is stupidity on a stellar level. If I get drunk and go to take a swim in the ocean..do I share the responsibility if I drown? Of course I do.

1. I'm not sure I understand exactly you don't "believe" ?...

2. Your analogy is severely flawed. The ocean is not a person.

3. Rape victims suffer enough physical and psychological damage which can last a lifetime, without society adding even more baggage to that. "I told you so" and "You should have known better" don't help at all and actually make things worse.
 
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Re: Do victims bear any responsibility for sexual assault if they are 'blackout' drun

If you are the weakest or slowest person present do you share responsibility for being selected as a crime victim? I do not doubt that criminals are lazy and will pounce on the easiest target of opportunity possible but whether your weakness is self inflicted and temporary should not matter.

Even if you've placed yourself into a high crime scenario? It ALWAYS matters. Always.
 
Re: Do victims bear any responsibility for sexual assault if they are 'blackout' drun

This reinforces my point. I'm not 'blaming' the young women, per se, I'm merely pointing out that they need to be aware of what they do and where they go.

i.e. victim blaming

Don't get blackout drunk.

See:

If one gender has to stop drinking "to excess" because there's a link between alcohol and rape (and let's be clear: rapists are just as likely to be drinking as their victims), why isn't it the gender that does the overwhelming majority of the raping? Oh right, because we'd never ask men to give up their ability to decide which risks are right for them. We only do that to women, so that when they make decisions we wouldn't make we can have the pleasure of calling them "stupid."
 
Re: Do victims bear any responsibility for sexual assault if they are 'blackout' drun

So lets work so that my list isn't ignored by rapists, the majority of whom are just as inebriated as their victims, and doing a stupid opportunistic thing.

How by saying don't rape? Haven't we been saying that since the dawn of time?
 
Re: Do victims bear any responsibility for sexual assault if they are 'blackout' drun

Criminal responsibility? Absolutely not.


They are in no way legally responsible for someone elses' actions as your first reply to my comment stated... Being drunk is not against the law. Someone raping someone (even if they are drunk) is against the law.

We're not talking about 'legally responsible. We're talking about life responsibility. The responsibility you have for yourself, your life, your future.
 
Re: Do victims bear any responsibility for sexual assault if they are 'blackout' drun

1. I'm not sure I understand exactly you don't "believe" ?...

2. Your analogy is severely flawed. The ocean is not a person.

3. Rape victims suffer enough physical and psychological damage which can last a lifetime, without society adding even more baggage to that. "I told you so" and "You should have known better" don't help at all and actually male things worse.

So we shouldn't teach our girls how to avoid such situations by pointing out cautionary examples? Of course we should.
 
Re: Do victims bear any responsibility for sexual assault if they are 'blackout' drun

How about being that drunk and heading down to Watts for a stroll then?
Not everyone in Watts is going to mug you or worse. The ones that do are breaking the law and should be prosecuted just as the rapist should. You have a Constitutional right to walk in any US neighborhood you wish, unmolested. That's why we have laws.
Or heading out into Fallujah wearing an American flag?
Fallujah is not aprt of the US and not subject ot our laws, or societal and cultural norms.
Would you say that's stupid?
Sure, both are stupid, as is getting so drunk that you pass out cold. However, stupidity does not equate to responsibility for the actions of others. Just because we may do something stupid that makes us vulnerable (like walking in a crime-prone area at night) does not legally equate to being responsible for the actions others decide to take against us.
The point is that we're seemingly trying to avoid looking at the burden borne by us all when putting ourselves into a dangerous situation.
Of course we have a moral burden to protect ourselves by not putting ourselves into a vulnerable position. In the military we called it SA - Situational Awareness (or CSA - Combat Situational Awareness) .

If we want to stop this sort of behavior we need not only to use the rapist as a teaching tool, but the victim (to a point) as well.
That a different subject. Using awareness of actions or lack of actions that can put us in a vulnerable position to where we are more likely to fall prey to a violent act perpetrated against us is of course something that should be taught to all our children as they grow into adulthood. I did for my two sons. Teaching a daughter would be no different.

However, again, that does not equate to legal culpability. In my opinion, it doesn't even equate to ethical, or moral culpability either.

Let's say a young lady sleeps in the nude, and also walk in her sleep. One night, she has a hard time getting to sleep so she takes a sleeping aid, a pill. She also has two glasses of wine with some cheese and crackers, right before she goes to bed.

Later on that night, she begins to sleep walk and goes out the door of her apartment into the hall, naked, and then lies down on the floor, still asleep.

The young college boys that live down the hall come out of their apartment and see her lying on the floor, naked and asleep (basically unconscious due to the wine and sleeping pills).

Do the boys have a right to now rape the woman? Would she be responsible if she was raped? What if she didn't have the wine or the pills and still found herself naked in the hall and on the floor getting raped after she walked out of her apartment while still asleep? Is she still responsible? What if she wasn't naked, but rather slept in a t-shirt with no panties and when she was asleep on the hallway floor her lower half was uncovered? Would that make it her fault that some male couldn't stop himself from putting a part of his body inside a part of her body?

Rape is never justified. Rape is never the fault of the victim. Rape can always be stopped by the actor, not always by the victim. The actor is responsible for rape, not the victim.
 
Re: Do victims bear any responsibility for sexual assault if they are 'blackout' drun

How by saying don't rape? Haven't we been saying that since the dawn of time?

Clearly not well enough.
 
Re: Do victims bear any responsibility for sexual assault if they are 'blackout' drun

Of course you are responsible.

Personally responsible, to some degree.

Legally responsible, definitely not.

As so often it comes down to the meaning a word in a particular context. "Who is responsible for this mess?" Means no more than "Who did it". "In the responsible citizen examines the issues before he votes" the word means no more than 'good'. And so on.
 
Re: Do victims bear any responsibility for sexual assault if they are 'blackout' drun

Clearly not well enough.

Well telling people not to rape isn't going to stop rape from happening. Rapists clearly don't care.
 
Re: Do victims bear any responsibility for sexual assault if they are 'blackout' drun

i.e. victim blaming



See:


You have to teach the women for one reason and one reason only....WOMEN GET RAPED FAR, FAR MORE OFTEN THEN MEN. Men are stronger and more predatory than women. Do you think I relied on a some young man's father to teach his son not to rape more than I relied on myself to teach my daughter how not to get raped? She could have been put in a room full of choirboys and would STILL not be getting blackout drunk.
 
Re: Do victims bear any responsibility for sexual assault if they are 'blackout' drun

Criminal responsibility? Absolutely not.


They are in no way legally responsible for someone elses' actions as your first reply to my comment stated... Being drunk is not against the law. Someone raping someone (even if they are drunk) is against the law.

I believe I pointed out that societies will sometimes choose to treat a person's responsibility as though it were causal to the crime. And so, being drunk might not be illegal. Stumble into the street in front of a car and you will find the court will treat the case differently than had you been sober.

What is irresponsible is running around mindlessly telling the girls that it is not their fault, when they take risks.
 
Re: Do victims bear any responsibility for sexual assault if they are 'blackout' drun

Well telling people not to rape isn't going to stop rape from happening. Rapists clearly don't care.

As we've firmly established here today...rapists are scum who should be coated in butter and slid down a 40 foot razor blade.
 
Re: Do victims bear any responsibility for sexual assault if they are 'blackout' drun

Personally responsible, to some degree.

Legally responsible, definitely not.

As so often it comes down to the meaning a word in a particular context. "Who is responsible for this mess?" Means no more than "Who did it". "In the responsible citizen examines the issues before he votes" the word means no more than 'good'. And so on.

I agree 100%. I'm mainly talking about being respo2 for protecting yourself so these situations won't occur.
 
Re: Do victims bear any responsibility for sexual assault if they are 'blackout' drun

I believe I pointed out that societies will sometimes choose to treat a person's responsibility as though it were causal to the crime. And so, being drunk might not be illegal. Stumble into the street in front of a car and you will find the court will treat the case differently than had you been sober.

What is irresponsible is running around mindlessly telling the girls that it is not their fault, when they take risks.

And this is what I fear. We've come to a point where we don't point out the victim's part in the tragedy AT ALL. That needs to stop. You want to stop these kinds of rape? You have to work BOTH ends of the issue.
 
Re: Do victims bear any responsibility for sexual assault if they are 'blackout' drun

I don't know about "responsibility" so much as maybe knowing risk factors that come into play.

The interesting thing about alcohol and sex is that it is the only instance where there is a person absolved of their decision while drunk. I'm not talking passed out but every stage in between. By law, and this is for legitimate reasons, you can't give consent to have sex at about any level of intoxication. But this is the only area where your decision while impaired doesn't count.

You get drunk and beat your spouse, you get held accountable.
You get drunk and drive, you get held accountable.
You get drunk and have sex, no, you didn't know what you were doing.

Those are one party actions: yours. You are your own victim.
Sexual assault is a two party action. You created a victim.
 
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