Would you rather

Medusa said:

do you agree with those who think of islam as a violent religion ,kal ?

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islam is a violent and oppressive religion.. No doubt in my mind..

Medusa said:

do you agree with those who think of islam as a violent religion ,kal ?

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I think Islam is just like any other religion. People use it as an excuse to commit atrocities. Organized religion to me is about power and control. Nothing more, nothing less.

Kal'Stang said:

I think Islam is just like any other religion. People use it as an excuse to commit atrocities. Organized religion to me is about power and control. Nothing more, nothing less.

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yes they do but not many of the believers tend to go violent on the others and that is why this poll disturbs me..he can prefer calling those violent ones islamists radicals etc..

Phys251 said:

Strange question. But ethnic violence is not an acceptable course of action. Ever. Anyone who advocates for it or even condones it is not a civilized human.

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It could pretty easily be argued that anyone who would crush their opponents skull with the butt end of a rifle and keep crushing until that enemy was dead, or who would shoot an unsuspecting man in the head from a hidden position 800 yards away, or who would drop firebombs on large concentrations of people, "is not a civilized person".

But those are exactly the kinds of actions, taken by men in defense of concepts like "freedom", "democracy", "the rule of law", and in opposition to "extremism" and "totalitarianism", that allow leftist blowhards the security and freedom necessary to wax philosophically about what civilized people do and do not do.

The very basic truth is that sooner rather than later Arabs/Muslims will be the majority population across much of Europe and once they are they're going to import the customs of their homeland (numerous misogynistic practices, honor killings, beheading, child sexual exploitation, theocracy, etc...) and impose that kind of thing on the minority Europeans of European descent.

You either stop it now, or you let it go until it's too late.

Islam isn't an "ethnicity" so it wouldn't really be ethnic violence.

Islam, in the way it's practiced across much of the Arab/Muslim world is a cancer that needs to be contained.

faithful_servant said:

Would you rather be beaten with a baseball bat or an ax handle?

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Would you rather be bayoneted or hit with an entrenching tool?

Viking11 said:

Would you rather see Europe populated by a Muslim majority or use violent force to drive away immigrants?

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How about native Europeans just have some more damn kids (and be a bit smarter about their immigration policies) so that things never get to that point to begin with?

soot said:

It could pretty easily be argued that anyone who would crush their opponents skull with the butt end of a rifle and keep crushing until that enemy was dead, or who would shoot an unsuspecting man in the head from a hidden position 800 yards away, or who would drop firebombs on large concentrations of people, "is not a civilized person".

But those are exactly the kinds of actions, taken by men in defense of concepts like "freedom", "democracy", "the rule of law", and in opposition to "extremism" and "totalitarianism", that allow leftist blowhards

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You had me listening until you made this childish comment. Now I question whether anything you say in your post will be worth listening to.

The very basic truth is that sooner rather than later Arabs/Muslims will be the majority population across much of Europe and once they are they're going to import the customs of their homeland (numerous misogynistic practices, honor killings, beheading, child sexual exploitation, theocracy, etc...) and impose that kind of thing on the minority Europeans of European descent.

You either stop it now, or you let it go until it's too late.

Islam isn't an "ethnicity" so it wouldn't really be ethnic violence.

Islam, in the way it's practiced across much of the Arab/Muslim world is a cancer that needs to be contained.

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And sure enough, it isn't. Full-blown Islamophobia, right on cue.

I refer you back to my previous post.

Would you rather see Europe populated by a Muslim majority or use violent force to drive away immigrants?

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Maybe I'm just ****ing weird but I don't advocate or support violent force being used on anyone just because they happen to be an immigrant.

tres borrachos said:

I don't live there so it isn't my call. Any more than I want their opinion on what we should do.

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See above

Since Muslims are nowhere near becoming a majority in Europe in the foreseeable future (IIRC, there are ca. 5% Muslims here now), that's a most hypothetical question.

And Muslims aren't all the same. Not even all of them are very religious. Despite all problems regarding the integration of a share of them, another share is much more influenced and changed by our way of life, than they can ever hope changing it.

As fo the others... when the offsprings of the Muslims coming to Europe manage to develop a liberal, enlightened version of Islam that's compatible with Western way of life, that would be okay.


I see less problems with the total number of common Muslims, but with those among them who actually get nasty ... it doesn't take many to commit a terrorist attack. If just one out of 100 becomes a terrorist, that's bad enough and can cause huge troubles.

I wish you had added an "other", since I don't think they need to be violently driven away, AND I also don't think there will end up being a Muslim majority in EU either.

Phys251 said:

And sure enough, it isn't. Full-blown Islamophobia, right on cue.

I refer you back to my previous post.

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I'm not really afraid of them, I just see the problem for what it is.

Understand that I don't have a problem with Islam in principal and I've argued here a number of times that Muslims are and have been our strongest allies in the "War on Terror".

I know and like a number of Muslims, in fact I live next door to a Pakistani Muslim family and I think they're great people.

But let's remember that when we talk about the waves of Islamic immigration hitting Europe we aren't talking about Bahrainian Sheikhs, or wealthy Qatari bankers, or Pakistani engineers like my neighbor.

We're talking about, in many cases, the lowest common denominators of the societies they're coming from.

I just look at what they do in their home countries, and what they export to any enclave that they emigrate to in any kind of numbers, and I see nor reason to expect that they'd do anything else as their populations grow larger and larger in any given place.

Think about it this way, you're a liberal, so pretend that the United States was experiencing an influx of far right wing ultra religious lunatic fringe Christian conservatives. And not the college-educated, business-owning type but the worst of the worst, inbred, uneducated, backwoods, low information conservatives that you, in your slightly liberal mind, can imagine.

Now keep that image in your head and take away the high school education that most of those people have, because with Muslim immigrants we're talking about the majority of them having minimal academic education. Imagine the worst radical conservative that you can and then picture him as an elementary school dropout, and then multiply him by a couple tens of millions.

Also assume that he's growing up in an entire culture of right wing Christian conservatives and that since the day he was born he'd never been exposed even to the concept of liberal democracy, in fact, when anyone brought up the topic of liberal democracy, or pluralism, or civil rights, that person was ridden out of town on a rail, or worse, stoned to death.

Also imagine that the population and aged replacement rate of liberal minded and politically open minded people was declining and that the far right wing Christian conservatives were the only demographic whose birth rate was increasing.

So the conservatives in your own country were multiplying and at the same time you were allowing millions of new Christian conservative immigrants and "refugees" in to your country every day.

You're saying that this isn't something that would concern you in the slightest?

You don't think that at some point the conservative Christian population would reach a critical mass and would start unduly influencing the manner in which the country was governed, and the type of legislation that was being written, and how the nation's ideas of civil and human were discussed, interpreted, and codified as law?

I think you'd actually be pretty darned concerned about such a situation.

soot said:

i'm not really afraid of them, i just see the problem for what it is.

Understand that i don't have a problem with islam in principal and i've argued here a number of times that muslims are and have been our strongest allies in the "war on terror".

i know and like a number of muslims, in fact i live next door to a pakistani muslim family and i think they're great people.

But let's remember that when we talk about the waves of islamic immigration hitting europe we aren't talking about bahrainian sheikhs, or wealthy qatari bankers, or pakistani engineers like my neighbor.

We're talking about, in many cases, the lowest common denominators of the societies they're coming from.

I just look at what they do in their home countries, and what they export to any enclave that they emigrate to in any kind of numbers, and i see nor reason to expect that they'd do anything else as their populations grow larger and larger in any given place.

Think about it this way, you're a liberal, so pretend that the united states was experiencing an influx of far right wing ultra religious lunatic fringe christian conservatives. And not the college-educated, business-owning type but the worst of the worst, inbred, uneducated, backwoods, low information conservatives that you, in your slightly liberal mind, can imagine.

Now keep that image in your head and take away the high school education that most of those people have, because with muslim immigrants we're talking about the majority of them having minimal academic education. Imagine the worst radical conservative that you can and then picture him as an elementary school dropout, and then multiply him by a couple tens of millions.

Also assume that he's growing up in an entire culture of right wing christian conservatives and that since the day he was born he'd never been exposed even to the concept of liberal democracy, in fact, when anyone brought up the topic of liberal democracy, or pluralism, or civil rights, that person was ridden out of town on a rail, or worse, stoned to death.

Also imagine that the population and aged replacement rate of liberal minded and politically open minded people was declining and that the far right wing christian conservatives were the only demographic whose birth rate was increasing.

So the conservatives in your own country were multiplying and at the same time you were allowing millions of new christian conservative immigrants and "refugees" in to your country every day.

You're saying that this isn't something that would concern you in the slightest?

You don't think that at some point the conservative christian population would reach a critical mass and would start unduly influencing the manner in which the country was governed, and the type of legislation that was being written, and how the nation's ideas of civil and human were discussed, interpreted, and codified as law?

I think you'd actually be pretty darned concerned about such a situation.

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how ??????

soot said:

I'm not really afraid of them, I just see the problem for what it is.

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Oh so you're an expert in Islam? Please, enlighten us. Give us a detailed description between the difference between Sunni and Shia Islam. How about this, for starters, just tell us what that difference even is.

Once you've done that, please post the passages from the Quran that terrorists use to support their terrorism, and post the passages that moderate Muslims use to try to refute their extremist views.

If you can do all of that with resounding success, then maybe, just maybe, you might prove yourself to have an opinion of Islam worthy of respect.

Phys251 said:

Oh so you're an expert in Islam? Please, enlighten us. Give us a detailed description between the difference between Sunni and Shia Islam. How about this, for starters, just tell us what that difference even is.

Once you've done that, please post the passages from the Quran that terrorists use to support their terrorism, and post the passages that moderate Muslims use to try to refute their extremist views.

If you can do all of that with resounding success, then maybe, just maybe, you might prove yourself to have an opinion of Islam worthy of respect.

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I usually do what you advise but was accused of having no knowledge about islam.funny but true..as if they know it better

Serenity said:

Maybe I'm just ****ing weird but I don't advocate or support violent force being used on anyone just because they happen to be an immigrant.

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Weirdo :mrgreen:

Medusa said:

I usually do what you advise but was accused of having no knowledge about islam.funny but true..as if they know it better

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Yup. It is a bad idea for one to try to discuss things of which they are ignorant. It is a worse idea to try to advocate and defend policies made from such foolishness.

Phys251 said:

Yup. It is a bad idea for one to try to discuss things of which they are ignorant. It is a worse idea to try to advocate and defend policies made from such foolishness.

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how do you think politicians get votes :2razz:

Viking11 said:

Would you rather see Europe populated by a Muslim majority or use violent force to drive away immigrants?

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Can you stop with all the polls?

JANFU said:

Can you stop with all the polls?

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can you stop thinking he can ?