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Is it time to parole Leslie Van Houten?

Should Leslie Van Houten be paroled?


  • Total voters
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I don't know enough about her behavior since she's been in jail so I can't say but I wouldn't dismiss releasing her out of hand just because she was involved in the Manson killings.

Does make you wonder though how someone who's been in jail for so long could ever acclimate to life outside of prison.
 
I don't know enough about her behavior since she's been in jail so I can't say but I wouldn't dismiss releasing her out of hand just because she was involved in the Manson killings.

Does make you wonder though how someone who's been in jail for so long could ever acclimate to life outside of prison.

After that long of a run being institutionalized, the likelihood of any sort of healthy participation in society is remote. Odds are she would end up government dependent anyway by some other means.
 
CHINO, Calif. — Leslie Van Houten, the youngest of Charles Manson's followers to take part in one of the nation's most notorious killings, is trying again for parole.

The homecoming princess who descended into a life of drugs before joining Manson's cult in the 1960s is scheduled for her 21st hearing before a parole board panel on Thursday at the California Institution for Women in Chino.

Van Houten, 66, has spent more than four decades in prison, completing college degrees and demonstrating exemplary behavior.

She was convicted for her role in the 1969 murders of wealthy grocer Leno La Bianca and his wife Rosemary in their Los Angeles home. The La Biancas were stabbed numerous times and the word "WAR" was carved on his stomach.

Ex-Manson family member seeks parole for 1969 murder

I say emphatically no. I don't care if she isn't a "threat". She sure as **** was a threat to Rosemary La Bianca.

The concept of rehabilitation and release is a cornerstone of my philosophy surrounding the penal system. I'm not interested in keeping someone behind bars out of pure vindictiveness. That said, she may get parole (or not), but to echo your sentiment, Leno and Rosemary will never receive parole from death.

I genuinely believe that by committing a certain kind of criminal act one can cede their right to life. And I'd even support the death penalty if it weren't for those occasional "Oopsie, we sent the wrong guy to the chair" incidents.
 
What I noticed is that people paroled for rape end up murdering their victims later in life. It's like they learned something: dead woman tell no tale.

As for leslie, I imagine that at 66, her killing days are over. But, I do not believe in freeing cold blooded murderers, regardless how much time they served or how old they are.
That makes absolutely zero sense. If they've already been convicted of rape, and they haven't murdered yet, there's no reason to fear her testifying against him, double-jeopardy and all. They only reason he might go back to kill would be revenge, which is a wholly different scenario.
 
I generally am willing to consider parole, depending on circumstances, but due to the nature and severity of the crime I cannot approve in this case.
 
She is an old lady for crip sake...I doubt she is a threat to anyone at this point.

If she is released, does she have any means of support or will she just become another person on the welfare roles? Might as well keep her in jail.

Crimes do have consequences.
 
If she is released, does she have any means of support or will she just become another person on the welfare roles? Might as well keep her in jail.

Crimes do have consequences.
In other words, taxpayers are paying for her either way.
 
if it weren't for those occasional "Oopsie, we sent the wrong guy to the chair" incidents.

I don't want to change the topic, but can you back that up? Can you tell us, specifically, what person in the U.S., say during the past century, was proven to have been wrongly executed by state or federal government? Give us the name, the crime involved, the date, the place, and describe what evidence you think conclusively proved his innocence after his execution. Obviously some people have been wrongly convicted and sentenced. In some cases these may even have been death sentences. But is so, the mistake was discovered before the execution. I have never heard of any person in this country, at least in recent decades, who we know did not commit the crime for which he was executed.

I have seen this stuff before. Someone here once posted a long series of cases from some anti-capital punishment website, supposedly people who had been wrongly executed. But in each case, when you scrutinized it carefully, the supposedly conclusive "evidence" was nothing of the kind. Again and again, the "proof" would be the personal opinion some sheriff or prosecutor offered to a reporter, an ambiguous statement by some other person that might or might not have been an admission of guilt, an alibi provided by someone who was never mentioned at the time by the person convicted, the subsequent arrest of some other suspect, and other sorts of half-baked tripe. To believe this stuff, you have to believe the many appeals court judges involved who carefully reviewed these cases were incompetent.

As for Van Houten, I don't recall exactly what she was convicted of. But if she was proven to have personally taken part in one or more murders, with her own hands, I would be less sympathetic to a request for parole than I would if she had only led cheers from the sidelines, handed someone else a weapon that was used to murder, mutilated someone who was already dead, driven the getaway car, or participated in some other indirect way.
 
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I don't want to change the topic, but can you back that up? Can you tell us, specifically, what person in the U.S., say during the past century, was proven to have been wrongly executed by state or federal government? Give us the name, the crime involved, the date, the place, and describe what evidence you think conclusively proved his innocence after his execution. Obviously some people have been wrongly convicted and sentenced. In some cases these may even have been death sentences. But is so, the mistake was discovered before the execution. I have never heard of any person in this country, at least in recent decades, who we know did not commit the crime for which he was executed.

I have seen this stuff before. Someone here once posted a long series of cases from some anti-capital punishment website, supposedly people who had been wrongly executed. But in each case, when you scrutinized it carefully, the supposedly conclusive "evidence" was nothing of the kind. Again and again, the "proof" would be the personal opinion some sheriff or prosecutor offered to a reporter, an ambiguous statement by some other person that might or might not have been an admission of guilt, an alibi provided by someone who was never mentioned at the time by the person convicted, the subsequent arrest of some other suspect, and other sorts of half-baked tripe. To believe this stuff, you have to believe the many appeals court judges involved who carefully reviewed these cases were incompetent.
In other words, you don't want to believe it, so you won't believe it. Hence you putting a long list of unrealistic criteria and a pre-dismissal of whatever evidence and/or proof is submitted.

And spare us the claim of an open mind.
 
If she is released, does she have any means of support or will she just become another person on the welfare roles? Might as well keep her in jail.

Crimes do have consequences.

In other words, taxpayers are paying for her either way.

Welfare would be cheaper then jail....in case you haven't noticed in California anyone can get welfare.

11 States That Have More People On Welfare Than Working

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Tell that to the person she murdered. Or her family.

Emotionalism should never hold sway over Justice.

I say that if she is truly and undeniably reformed then let her out. We're supposed to have a system of Justice. NOT a system of retribution.
 
Looks like she is one step closer to release. Not a good idea in my opinion, but this ship is getting ready to sail.

"(CNN)After 19 denials, Manson Family member Leslie Van Houten is a step closer to being free, after a parole board panel recommended her release, a spokesman for the California department of corrections said Thursday.

The full Board of Parole Hearings will review the decision during the next four months, then could send the case to California Gov. Jerry Brown, according to corrections spokesman Luis Patino.

Brown will have 30 days to decide whether to approve or deny the recommendation."

Leslie Van Houten, Manson Family member, recommended for parole - CNN.com

Yes I saw that. Now....what will Brown do? This is a very tough one...very controversial. Either way he's in a pinch.
 
CHINO, Calif. — Leslie Van Houten, the youngest of Charles Manson's followers to take part in one of the nation's most notorious killings, is trying again for parole.

The homecoming princess who descended into a life of drugs before joining Manson's cult in the 1960s is scheduled for her 21st hearing before a parole board panel on Thursday at the California Institution for Women in Chino.

Van Houten, 66, has spent more than four decades in prison, completing college degrees and demonstrating exemplary behavior.

She was convicted for her role in the 1969 murders of wealthy grocer Leno La Bianca and his wife Rosemary in their Los Angeles home. The La Biancas were stabbed numerous times and the word "WAR" was carved on his stomach.

Ex-Manson family member seeks parole for 1969 murder

I say emphatically no. I don't care if she isn't a "threat". She sure as **** was a threat to Rosemary La Bianca.

When released she can probably move-in to her sisters house Luan Van Houten. I believe she has a nephew, Milhouse Van Houten.
 
I don't know enough about her behavior since she's been in jail so I can't say but I wouldn't dismiss releasing her out of hand just because she was involved in the Manson killings.

Does make you wonder though how someone who's been in jail for so long could ever acclimate to life outside of prison.

That's such a great point. What exactly can she do now? When she went to prison, Nixon was President, there were no cell phones and PCs, and people could go from the mailroom to the CEO job. Life will be both very strange and probably very challenging for her, if she gets out.
 
The concept of rehabilitation and release is a cornerstone of my philosophy surrounding the penal system. I'm not interested in keeping someone behind bars out of pure vindictiveness. That said, she may get parole (or not), but to echo your sentiment, Leno and Rosemary will never receive parole from death.

I genuinely believe that by committing a certain kind of criminal act one can cede their right to life. And I'd even support the death penalty if it weren't for those occasional "Oopsie, we sent the wrong guy to the chair" incidents.

I support the death penalty for some crimes, but share your concern about sending the wrong guy to his death. And we can all agree it's happened. I think in this case there isn't any doubt that she did it, she admits to it to this day. I think actually the ones who were at Sharon Tate's house (Tex Watson, Patricia Krenwinkel, Susan Atkins) should have somehow been eliminated from the Earth. Tex Watson is now a "minister" and was allowed to spawn a few kids thanks to conjugal visits. Manson was/is a monster, no question. But what those bastards did to a woman who was 8 months pregnant and begged for the life of her unborn child after watching her friends get slaughtered.....horrific. Not diminishing what happened to the La Biancas by any means, but the Tate crime was simply one of the worst...ever.
 
I don't want to change the topic, but can you back that up? Can you tell us, specifically, what person in the U.S., say during the past century, was proven to have been wrongly executed by state or federal government? Give us the name, the crime involved, the date, the place, and describe what evidence you think conclusively proved his innocence after his execution. Obviously some people have been wrongly convicted and sentenced. In some cases these may even have been death sentences. But is so, the mistake was discovered before the execution. I have never heard of any person in this country, at least in recent decades, who we know did not commit the crime for which he was executed.

I have seen this stuff before. Someone here once posted a long series of cases from some anti-capital punishment website, supposedly people who had been wrongly executed. But in each case, when you scrutinized it carefully, the supposedly conclusive "evidence" was nothing of the kind. Again and again, the "proof" would be the personal opinion some sheriff or prosecutor offered to a reporter, an ambiguous statement by some other person that might or might not have been an admission of guilt, an alibi provided by someone who was never mentioned at the time by the person convicted, the subsequent arrest of some other suspect, and other sorts of half-baked tripe. To believe this stuff, you have to believe the many appeals court judges involved who carefully reviewed these cases were incompetent.

As for Van Houten, I don't recall exactly what she was convicted of. But if she was proven to have personally taken part in one or more murders, with her own hands, I would be less sympathetic to a request for parole than I would if she had only led cheers from the sidelines, handed someone else a weapon that was used to murder, mutilated someone who was already dead, driven the getaway car, or participated in some other indirect way.

You're confused about where the evidence beyond a reasonable doubt is supposed to be applied. It isn't supposed to be infallible regarding exonerating someone from a murder verdict, but regarding the handing down of the murder verdict in the first place. If you look at those anti-capital websites from that perspective, their point will become more clear to you.
 
I support the death penalty for some crimes, but share your concern about sending the wrong guy to his death. And we can all agree it's happened. I think in this case there isn't any doubt that she did it, she admits to it to this day. I think actually the ones who were at Sharon Tate's house (Tex Watson, Patricia Krenwinkel, Susan Atkins) should have somehow been eliminated from the Earth. Tex Watson is now a "minister" and was allowed to spawn a few kids thanks to conjugal visits. Manson was/is a monster, no question. But what those bastards did to a woman who was 8 months pregnant and begged for the life of her unborn child after watching her friends get slaughtered.....horrific. Not diminishing what happened to the La Biancas by any means, but the Tate crime was simply one of the worst...ever.

I've heard nothing to question Houten's guilt so I have no reason to doubt it. But I can't trust the same system that can and has sentenced (and executed) innocent people for murder to apply it on any level. Houten does none of us any harm by remaining in prison.
 
I don't want to change the topic, but can you back that up? Can you tell us, specifically, what person in the U.S., say during the past century, was proven to have been wrongly executed by state or federal government? Give us the name, the crime involved, the date, the place, and describe what evidence you think conclusively proved his innocence after his execution. Obviously some people have been wrongly convicted and sentenced. In some cases these may even have been death sentences. But is so, the mistake was discovered before the execution. I have never heard of any person in this country, at least in recent decades, who we know did not commit the crime for which he was executed.

I'm fairly certain that the Innocence Project posts information regarding its exonerations. Granted, they tend to focus on the living because duh, but it hardly makes any sense that you would start from the assumption that nobody has wrongfully been executed given their long list of people whose executions they prevented by proving the defendants innocent.

There are of course the myriad cases in which gold-standard standard evidence (ie, DNA exclusion) is not available because it wasn't collected at the time. There is of course also the extremely lengthy history of blacks accused of murders/rapes and being executed based on little more than a white woman's testimony.

You really ought to be able to quickly find the information you're demanding of Cardinal if you doubt an innocent person has ever been executed, but again, it's a really strange thing to doubt given all the proven exonerations of persons on death row....
 
I've heard nothing to question Houten's guilt so I have no reason to doubt it. But I can't trust the same system that can and has sentenced (and executed) innocent people for murder to apply it on any level. Houten does none of us any harm by remaining in prison.

Indeed.

I could support the death penalty if we had proof on the level of, say, a high-quality video of the defendant killing the victim and a complete genome match with DNA left on the victim and the defendant......

.....but we pretty much never have anything close to that. Way too many death row exonerations exist for me to support the penalty, even if some really would deserve it if guilty.



When it comes to the government ending a citizen's life, I simply cannot shrug off the fallibility of any human system.
 
CHINO, Calif. — Leslie Van Houten, the youngest of Charles Manson's followers to take part in one of the nation's most notorious killings, is trying again for parole.

The homecoming princess who descended into a life of drugs before joining Manson's cult in the 1960s is scheduled for her 21st hearing before a parole board panel on Thursday at the California Institution for Women in Chino.

Van Houten, 66, has spent more than four decades in prison, completing college degrees and demonstrating exemplary behavior.

She was convicted for her role in the 1969 murders of wealthy grocer Leno La Bianca and his wife Rosemary in their Los Angeles home. The La Biancas were stabbed numerous times and the word "WAR" was carved on his stomach.

Ex-Manson family member seeks parole for 1969 murder

I say emphatically no. I don't care if she isn't a "threat". She sure as **** was a threat to Rosemary La Bianca.
No she shouldn't get out. I could care less that she got college degrees at tax payer expense and behaved herself.
 
I'm fairly certain that the Innocence Project posts information regarding its exonerations. Granted, they tend to focus on the living because duh, but it hardly makes any sense that you would start from the assumption that nobody has wrongfully been executed given their long list of people whose executions they prevented by proving the defendants innocent.

There are of course the myriad cases in which gold-standard standard evidence (ie, DNA exclusion) is not available because it wasn't collected at the time. There is of course also the extremely lengthy history of blacks accused of murders/rapes and being executed based on little more than a white woman's testimony.

You really ought to be able to quickly find the information you're demanding of Cardinal if you doubt an innocent person has ever been executed, but again, it's a really strange thing to doubt given all the proven exonerations of persons on death row....

And there are of course websites dedicated to those executed wrongly (I've been through this extensively in another thread). But Matchlight is approaching this from entirely the wrong end. He wants conclusive evidence that the person is not guilty, when as we all learned in the fourth grade you're supposed to have conclusive evidence that the person is guilty. In nearly all the cases of those executed, it was found that the evidence was simply awful. So the simple question to those like Matchlight is, "Based on the terrible quality of the evidence, had you been sitting on that jury would you have delivered a guilty verdict?" If they still answer in the affirmative, you know you're really not dealing with a rational being.
 
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In other words, you don't want to believe it, so you won't believe it. Hence you putting a long list of unrealistic criteria and a pre-dismissal of whatever evidence and/or proof is submitted.

And spare us the claim of an open mind.

No amount of your prattling can substitute for proof.
 
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