Does the NBA Need More White Players?

Kobie said:

Shawn Bradley and Bryant Reeves immediately come to mind.

Andrew Bogut, Christian Laettner and Keith Van Horn were very high picks who never fully panned out but managed to kick around the league for a while.

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Aaron Gray. The white panther.

Nope, race shouldn't be a factor. Merit should be the only one. Affirmative action in all cases is wrong.

Kobie said:

Shawn Bradley and Bryant Reeves immediately come to mind.

Andrew Bogut, Christian Laettner and Keith Van Horn were very high picks who never fully panned out but managed to kick around the league for a while.

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When I wrote that post I was thinking of the guy Charlotte picked very high and, of course, the guy the Pistons picked a few years before then. Adam Morrison and that Darko dude.

There were a few good ones though--Byrd, Stockton, Gnobli and the Gasol brothers come to mind right away. And...Dirk. Dirk is really good. So would have been Walton, had he not messed up his feet.

Captain Adverse said:

Nah dude. That's not how things work in today's socially relevant society.

There must be more than just equal opportunity, you have to have proportional representation at the very least; or better yet...give the disadvantaged white players more slots to make up for all the imbalances of past years.

Soooo...I think there should be a quota of 65% white players on every team. Then add about 20% latin, a couple percent Asian...and the rest Black players.

Also, non-Black players must get to play at least 75% of the game to make it all fair.

Ya think?

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But you can't do that, by itself.. Why privilege simply on race when there are also religion, national origin, and color. We need 26% evangelical Christian, 23% Catholic, 18% mainline Christian, 7% historic Black Christian, 1.4% Jewish, etc. And 20% German-American, 5% Swedish American, etc. Don't forget about Malay/Hindu types. And I guess 51% female and 4% LGBT. (Or whatever it is)

calamity said:

When I wrote that post I was thinking of the guy Charlotte picked very high and, of course, the guy the Pistons picked a few years before then. Adam Morrison and that Darko dude.

There were a few good ones though--Byrd, Stockton, Gnobli and the Gasol brothers come to mind right away. And...Dirk. Dirk is really good. So would have been Walton, had he not messed up his feet.

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Darko Milicic. Picked ahead of Carmelo Anthony, Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh. LOL.

Captain Adverse said:

Nah dude. That's not how things work in today's socially relevant society.

There must be more than just equal opportunity, you have to have proportional representation at the very least; or better yet...give the disadvantaged white players more slots to make up for all the imbalances of past years.

Soooo...I think there should be a quota of 65% white players on every team. Then add about 20% latin, a couple percent Asian...and the rest Black players.

Also, non-Black players must get to play at least 75% of the game to make it all fair.

Ya think?

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I know you think you're being witty, but literally no industry or institution that works like that. Your strawman about "today's socially relevant society" is total codswallop.

Kobie said:

I know you think you're being witty, but literally no industry or institution that works like that. Your strawman about "today's socially relevant society" is total codswallop.

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If he is being witty then why do you think that he cares if industries work that way or not?

phattonez said:

This poll is based on articles such as the one I link at the bottom, where the author decries a lack of black players in MLB and how those numbers either are improving or need to improve. Most sports writers take it as a given that there needs to be more black players on MLB teams, or as managers or in front offices. So this begs the question. In other leagues where blacks are if anything overrepresented, are more white players needed? Or in other words, does the NBA need more white players?

MLB making inroads to attract African Americans

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What we could do is set in effect affirmative action in the NBA. Require teams to carry White players in the NBA. Isn't diversity more important than individual merit?

We don't need to force the NBA to hire white players, or the NHL to hire black players.
Or force colleges to admit minorities.
Or force companies to hire female CEOs.

Things work better when people do what they're naturally good at.

truthatallcost said:

We don't need to force the NBA to hire white players, or the NHL to hire black players.
Or force colleges to admit minorities.
Or force companies to hire female CEOs.

Things work better when people do what they're naturally good at.

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What company has been "forced" to hire a female CEO?

As far as college admissions go, given that education is a vital part of our national infrastructure (unlike, say, basketball), and serios inequities exist at the pre-collegiate level, it makes sense to at least somewhat re-tilt the playing field.

calamity said:

When I wrote that post I was thinking of the guy Charlotte picked very high and, of course, the guy the Pistons picked a few years before then. Adam Morrison and that Darko dude.

There were a few good ones though--Byrd, Stockton, Gnobli and the Gasol brothers come to mind right away. And...Dirk. Dirk is really good. So would have been Walton, had he not messed up his feet.

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Please. I live in SE Michigan and we never mention that "Darko dude" as it is simply too painful.

For what it is worth - and that probably is not much - the NBA was at its absolute zenith during the years of the 70's through the early 90's. The merger of the ABA with the NBA in 76 stands out as a benchmark.

The reason for that ---- I believe ---- is that basketball was two rather different games. We had the white game as personified by the player who excelled at fundamentals and basics and could be coached into a cohesive unit of five men functioning as one with the goal always to get an open shot closer to the basket. Setting picks and the give and go were essential in this scheme and were the heart of the game. Bob Pettit, Jerry Lucas, Dave Debuscherre and others had great careers playing a fundamental game. Even black stars such as Bill Russell or Dave Bing or Walt Frazier excelled at such abilities.

Then the inner city black game came along which emphasized individual skills born out of great physical ability and to some extent - showmanship. The ABA was the quintessential black league despite some white stars such as Bobby Jones or Dan Issel.

During the period I mentioned, we had a tremendous melding or blending of the two styles. Great black individual players like Julius Erving or Connie Hawkins or David Thompson could do the great dunks and fancy passes and showboat moves but they also were trained in the basics and were fundamentally sound. Then white players came along like Larry Bird and John Stockton and Steve Nash who could incorporate some of the black moves into their fundamental game.

And for some 25 years it was truly great.

Then the league changed the rules to benefit the one on one player who could use speed and leaping to their advantage. We give an extra step at the start of a drive and at the end and allow all manner of carrying the basketball now. We have the clear out which reduces the game to one on one and which very very few defenders can stop. And the fundamental white game is no longer necessary to succeed in the NBA.

You can talk all you want about the skin of players - but until we get rid of the atrocious rule changes that ruined the game - the innercity black individual player who is faster and can leap higher is going to have ad advantage in this game today.

phattonez said:

This poll is based on articles such as the one I link at the bottom, where the author decries a lack of black players in MLB and how those numbers either are improving or need to improve. Most sports writers take it as a given that there needs to be more black players on MLB teams, or as managers or in front offices. So this begs the question. In other leagues where blacks are if anything overrepresented, are more white players needed? Or in other words, does the NBA need more white players?

MLB making inroads to attract African Americans

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We just cannot help but **** this up.

The more we look at any organization, sports enterprise, the media or whatever else in terms of needing more white or black participants the more likely we are to get a divisional response right along the same lines. It results in prejudice, it does not remove it.

MLB does not need more black players, NBA does not need more white players... we need to quit looking at this in terms exclusive to one's skin color. It is bound to make matters worse, as it usually does when going down this road. We end up fueling those to continue to look at these things in these terms, then sit back and wonder why social cohesion continues to deteriorate.

phattonez said:

This poll is based on articles such as the one I link at the bottom, where the author decries a lack of black players in MLB and how those numbers either are improving or need to improve. Most sports writers take it as a given that there needs to be more black players on MLB teams, or as managers or in front offices. So this begs the question. In other leagues where blacks are if anything overrepresented, are more white players needed? Or in other words, does the NBA need more white players?

MLB making inroads to attract African Americans

Click to expand...

I don't think the NBA needs more white players, nor do I think the MLB needs more black players.

I think that professional sports teams are rare examples of meritocracies. The teams take the best players they can, regardless of race, national origin, etc. And that's the way it should be.

If blacks are underrepresented in the MLB, it's probably because blacks don't grow up playing baseball as much as whites do.

molten_dragon said:

I don't think the NBA needs more white players, nor do I think the MLB needs more black players.

I think that professional sports teams are rare examples of meritocracies. The teams take the best players they can, regardless of race, national origin, etc. And that's the way it should be.

If blacks are underrepresented in the MLB, it's probably because blacks don't grow up playing baseball as much as whites do.

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I think that's what they're trying to change. People who grow up playing baseball become baseball fans, and spend their money on baseball. It's marketing.

molten_dragon said:

I don't think the NBA needs more white players, nor do I think the MLB needs more black players.

I think that professional sports teams are rare examples of meritocracies. The teams take the best players they can, regardless of race, national origin, etc. And that's the way it should be.

If blacks are underrepresented in the MLB, it's probably because blacks don't grow up playing baseball as much as whites do.

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Actually the MLB has more Latino players now for several reason. One is clearly weather. You can play baseball all year in the Dominican Republic, for example. Another reason is that spending a decade or more in the minor leagues and then playing winter ball for even less money totally sucks. It's not a good career option for poor people or those with limited skills in the sport.

In South Carolina, I worked with a couple guys who played minor league ball. These guys worked in my industry during the off season to earn some scratch. I got to know them pretty well. They all had similar stories. They were good at baseball but not quite good enough to go pro. At least they knew it, which is why they spent winters pursuing other career options.

Kobie said:

I think that's what they're trying to change. People who grow up playing baseball become baseball fans, and spend their money on baseball. It's marketing.

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Partially. Kids also are more prone to be drawn to what is familiar, which addresses your point, but also leave a factor out.

Kids in inner cities have limited space, and as such, basketball is the primarily recreational outlet for them. Hence, it is what they know and grow to love.

On the flip side, a few decades ago kids in inner city neighborhoods could play stick ball in the street, but that's pretty much not allowed anymore, so they never have a chance to develop a true love for something like baseball.

Kobie said:

I think that's what they're trying to change. People who grow up playing baseball become baseball fans, and spend their money on baseball. It's marketing.

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We played a lot of baseball as kids. All summer, in fact. Diamonds at various parks were always full of kids playing some version of the game. We also played a lot of "fast pitch," games using a rubber ball between two or three people where a square drawn on a school wall served as the backstop and strike zone. I don't know why this changed, but no one does it anymore.

Kobie said:

I think that's what they're trying to change. People who grow up playing baseball become baseball fans, and spend their money on baseball. It's marketing.

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As an outsider that doesn't go to games how does an average family afford the price of admission? What are tickets these days?

EnigmaO01 said:

As an outsider that doesn't go to games how does an average family afford the price of admission? What are tickets these days?

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It's a double-edged sword for the leagues, IMO.

On the one hand they're making money hand-over-fist, and certainly aren't hurting. And part of this is that sports has been re-framed as entertainment, and a place to be seen, not so much about the actual game anymore. So why should they care?

On the other hand, because of this, their complaints regarding a lack of new fans is hollow. They have priced real fans like me (who are in the minority, it seems obvious) out of the event altogether. I rarely go to a top pro event anymore, partly because I can't afford it, but even if I could I would be reluctant because I don't like being treated like nothing more than an open wallet.

If they are sincere in their concern, they need to look inward. But, I don't believe they are sincere. They're getting exactly what they want.