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Are only white people in the US capable of racism?

In the US, are only white people capable of racism?

  • Total voters
    107
shrubnose said:
Anyone on this planet can be prejudiced towards other people.

But what effect does a poor, powerless,persons hatred have on anyone?
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From time to time, they gang together and start a pogrom - or vote for a demagogue who becomes a blood-sucking African dictator, or a European fascist leader, or...
 
ActuallyCorrect said:
If you want to talk about systemic racism, it doesn't get more textbook than the deleterious effects of affirmative action on Asian and Indian Americans.

And "white flight" equally if not more so harms whites as it does blacks. You just hit the nail on the head, whites move out, selling their houses for under market value, and then move back when they realize that their fears were misconstrued and irrational.

Plus I think we have to distinguish between what sort of "flight" we are talking about here. What might appear as "white flight" can also sometimes be a reaction to low income/subsidized housing being built in what were once middle class neighborhoods. I've seen this first hand, it drives down prices and a lot of the old middle class residents put their houses up for sale out of fear that prices will be driven down further. It has nothing to do with race, though it may appear that way to an un-nuanced eye.
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White flight took off decades ago and was in response to race riots and just a disdain for minorities. If those same people move back to say detroit, if they're still alive and now in poverty and their houses they sold are still around, they will be MUCH cheaper. If any of them bailed out due to decreasing home values and not racism, like a stock gone sour, and would never go back, that's unfortunate, but that's life. We see the same forces at work after the 08 collapse and things like corporate farms moving to rural areas and (literally) ****ting up the neighborhood. Conversely, 'gentrification' causes homeowners to be priced out and have to leave. I can only have so much pity for one situation and not the other

As for AA, yes it harms a few thousand asian applicants at elite universities. OTOH, they tend to be overall focused on academics and not on extracurriculars
 
chromium said:
White flight took off decades ago and was in response to race riots and just a disdain for minorities. If those same people move back to say detroit, if they're still alive and now in poverty and their houses they sold are still around, they will be MUCH cheaper. If any of them bailed out due to decreasing home values and not racism, like a stock gone sour, and would never go back, that's unfortunate, but that's life. We see the same forces at work after the 08 collapse and things like corporate farms moving to rural areas and (literally) ****ting up the neighborhood. Conversely, 'gentrification' causes homeowners to be priced out and have to leave. I can only have so much pity for one situation and not the other

As for AA, yes it harms a few thousand asian applicants at elite universities. OTOH, they tend to be overall focused on academics and not on extracurriculars
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I think you have an inaccurate idea of white flight. Saying it's because of "race riots and disdain for minorities" is not even close to hitting the mark.
How many communities have race riots? Not many.
I think people conveniently forget how black on white crime is the major factor of white flight.
If your neighborhood suddenly saw crime skyrocket, your kids were getting beat up at school for being the wrong skin color, and your car was being broken into, would you stay or move?
It's as simple as that. Victimization is what drives white flight.

Then you disregard Asian students who actually work hard to do well, despite being a minority. What the hell? Are minorities only worth anything to you when they're failing in life? I mean, isn't success what we're hoping minorities achieve here?
 
Cyrylek;1065692332[B said:
]From time to time, they gang together and start a pogrom - or vote for a demagogue who becomes a blood-sucking African dictator, or a European fascist leader, or...[/B]
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What does your comment have to do with the racism that's still going on in the USA? Fill us in, you're an intelligent man, Surely you can do better than the comment I'm responding to.




"Better days are coming." ~ But not for today's out of touch,running out of time,GOP.
 
chromium said:
White flight took off decades ago and was in response to race riots and just a disdain for minorities. If those same people move back to say detroit, if they're still alive and now in poverty and their houses they sold are still around, they will be MUCH cheaper. If any of them bailed out due to decreasing home values and not racism, like a stock gone sour, and would never go back, that's unfortunate, but that's life. We see the same forces at work after the 08 collapse and things like corporate farms moving to rural areas and (literally) ****ting up the neighborhood. Conversely, 'gentrification' causes homeowners to be priced out and have to leave. I can only have so much pity for one situation and not the other

As for AA, yes it harms a few thousand asian applicants at elite universities. OTOH, they tend to be overall focused on academics and not on extracurriculars
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I think Detroit is the worst kind of reference point. If houses start burning down every year on the same day, people are going to leave if they can afford to, no matter what color their skin is.
 
shrubnose said:
What does your comment have to do with the racism that's still going on in the USA? Fill us in, you're an intelligent man, Surely you can do better than the comment I'm responding to.

"Better days are coming." ~ But not for today's out of touch,running out of time,GOP.
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Why, USA is not any different: the Koreatown, L.A. pogroms of 1992 were a racist attack by the "poor and powerless", and people voting, for example, for someone spewing xenophobic garbage about Mexicans, can be poor, powerless and - racially motivated.
 
Cyrylek said:
Why, USA is not any different: the Koreatown, L.A. pogroms of 1992 were a racist attack by the "poor and powerless", and people voting, for example, for
someone spewing xenophobic garbage about Mexicans, can be poor, powerless and - racially motivated
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.
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Do you see Donald Trump as a poor, powerless, person? I don't.

:lol:

Most of those who support him aren't poor or powerless either.

But they won't win this election because other people in the USA have the power to vote against Trump and his hate and fear campaign.
 
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chromium said:
At an individual level, of course. I think that's not even worth addressing. At a systemic level, it's more rare, but america is segregated to the point that neighborhoods that are almost exclusively non white are common. There you will find systemic racism towards whites and other minorities.

When you stop and ask yourself WHY it's so common, though, it often revolves around perceived racism harbored by whites - that they don't want to live near blacks etc, or that the blacks etc who live there have experienced enough racism for a lifetime. This is also why 'gayborhoods' exist

In other cases, it's just that's the only housing the minority group can afford and it may be more due to 'white flight' racism decades ago than racism today. Evidence for this includes the formerly middle class white americans who are moving back into these neighborhoods, ever since the economic collapse
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Absolutely.
People are actually looking for gay "friendly" neighborhoods, minority neighborhoods, when searching for housing. Segregation is alive and well.
If someone could explain to such "groups" that it is ok to mingle among Americans, we could learn that we can get along just fine if given the chance, no matter what we hear and read.
 
shrubnose said:
Do you see Donald Trump as a poor, powerless, person? I don't.

:lol:

Most of those who support him aren't poor or powerless either.
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Actually, most of them are. The poor/blue collar whites are his power base. And his "bipartisan appeal" is strong enough to bring in plenty of black votes as well.

And it doesn't have to be the ultimate disaster on the federal level: For example, every black voter who prefers a corrupt local black politician to a qualified white or Hispanic one, out of racism, does serious damage to his community...
 
shrubnose said:
Do you see Donald Trump as a poor, powerless, person? I don't.

:lol:

Most of those who support him aren't poor or powerless either.

But they won't win this election because other people in the USA have the power to vote against Trump and his hate and fear campaign.
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Trump's appeal is that he allows racists and bigots to vote for someone that shares their values while still being able to convince themselves that they are not voting for someone spewing bigotry and hate. Few bigots like to think of themselves as bigots.
 
Cyrylek said:
Actually, most of them are. The poor/blue collar whites are his power base. And his "bipartisan appeal" is strong enough to bring in plenty of black votes as well.

And it doesn't have to be the ultimate disaster on the federal level: For example, every black voter who prefers a corrupt local black politician to a qualified white or Hispanic one, out of racism, does serious damage to his community...
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Trump's coalition is even whiter than the typical Republican's coalition.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
Trump's coalition is even whiter than the typical Republican's coalition.
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Yes, it is - for the time being - mostly the "frustrated white working class". But don't underestimate Trump, he has proven himself as a master of populist demagoguery. If he decides to spend a good effort on preaching to black voters that they are victims of all those evil forces (Mexican immigrants, trade with China, Wall Street, etc), he will be much more effective in "outreach" than Republicans. I hope it will not happen, but I will not be surprised if he gets a serious black vote in November (say, 20%).
 
Cyrylek said:
Yes, it is - for the time being - mostly the "frustrated white working class". But don't underestimate Trump, he has proven himself as a master of populist demagoguery. If he decides to spend a good effort on preaching to black voters that they are victims of all those evil forces (Mexican immigrants, trade with China, Wall Street, etc), he will be much more effective in "outreach" than Republicans. I hope it will not happen, but I will not be surprised if he gets a serious black vote in November (say, 20%).
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I doubt that. Trump is going to be victim of the most effective negative ad campaign since LBJ destroyed Goldwater in 64. I went into this in this post here: http://www.debatepolitics.com/break...safety-concern-w-862-a-17.html#post1065652297
 
phattonez said:
I've heard from many Asians in universities complaints about affirmative action. They lose big time. They have to work much harder than Hispanics and blacks to get the same position. I'll tell you, they aren't resenting whites because of this issue.
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Asians are far better off than non-white Hispanics and blacks.

Cyrylek said:
Yes, it is - for the time being - mostly the "frustrated white working class". But don't underestimate Trump, he has proven himself as a master of populist demagoguery. If he decides to spend a good effort on preaching to black voters that they are victims of all those evil forces (Mexican immigrants, trade with China, Wall Street, etc), he will be much more effective in "outreach" than Republicans. I hope it will not happen, but I will not be surprised if he gets a serious black vote in November (say, 20%).
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I'm telling you, it's a good thing Trump is a racist hack.

He would have been even more popular without the racist rhetoric.

Which scares the **** out of me.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
I doubt that. Trump is going to be victim of the most effective negative ad campaign since LBJ destroyed Goldwater in 64. I went into this in this post here: http://www.debatepolitics.com/break...safety-concern-w-862-a-17.html#post1065652297
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I seriously doubt it will go like that.

The disruptions of Trump rallies are hugely counterproductive, since they reinforce his original image as a fighter against bullying political correctness. And he had inoculated himself against negative ads by cultivating the image of an anti-establishment crusader. "Of course they attack me! I am the only one who threatens their power!" One tenth of what he already said publicly should have killed his candidacy - it only made him stronger.

I suspect that if the GOP fails to stop Trump, he will go on to a victory in November. Partly because of his populist message and personal aptitude, and partly because Hillary is a terrible candidate, regardless of her ideology. But the electoral map will look exceedingly weird: Trump will capture Massachusetts and New York, while the (real) Republican strongholds like Utah and Wyoming will turn blue.
 
Van Basten said:
Asians are far better off than non-white Hispanics and blacks.



I'm telling you, it's a good thing Trump is a racist hack.

He would have been even more popular without the racist rhetoric.

Which scares the **** out of me.
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Oh, I don't think he is a racist at all (A narcissistic jerk like him - caring about other people enough to notice their race?). He is just a master manipulator, and he will be able modify his message just in time to seduce most unlikely audiences.
 
I wanted to vote Death Star so bad....damn you!
Its pretty much been said better than I can say it. Racism is the big "ism" in the world. I think it is really impossible to narrow it down into one problem and, especially, one origin.

phattonez said:
According to SJW's and the "check your privilege" left, yes, only white people can be racist.
According to normal people, whites are the least racist people in this country.
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I created a spreadsheet that calculates privilege and compares your privilege on a world basis (based on no small amount of research and similar worksheets that already existed). In the most technical sense, blacks, Hispanics, Native Americans, etc. can all be privileged compared to some (including different ethnicities of their same race and demographic) because income, religion, sexual orientation, and so forth are all calculated.
That being said, a non-threatening appearing Caucasian does have privilege over a non-threatening appearing Black in a typical situation where everything else is equal.
That is what it is everyone's responsibility to change IMO. I'm not saying that we need to all go work for blm or other organizations (or that we need this focus to only be on blacks or race for that matter but all privilege) but simply saying "this is not right", not accepting those jokes among friends and coworkers, pointing out when someone is flaunting their privilege, these little things can help.
Again, that's my :twocents: ÷ 2.
 
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Cyrylek said:
It was a graffiti in response to a graffiti.

(Explanation: It is not a zero-sum game. By supporting economic activities that would not exist otherwise (native labor is too expensive), immigrants create jobs for themselves and for others. More specifically, insulate black neighborhoods typically stagnate in poverty and underemployment; diverse neighborhoods, with a good proportion of immigrants, are upward mobile, helping poor blacks to acquire habits and skills needed for steady employment.
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You are making an academic argument that in theory sounds OK, but in practice doesn't work.

It is true immigrants start business and hire people, but to shop in those stores people need money. Welfare is enough for food and rent, but not much else. You have to work in a place that pays better, and to do that you need basic language skills. As it stands now, we have a critical mass in many communities that allow a non English speaking immigrant to live a full life and never learn English. That is one reason why second generation immigrants do better overall.

Regarding upwardly mobile immigrants helping blacks, your are at odds with the facts. Immigrants, due to language and coming from a mostly culturally homogeneous society, are unlikely to hire a US black person because they don't fit in to the expectations of the immigrant clientele.

Just to be clear, I have no problem with legal immigrants. I believe a labor shortage will be created by getting illegals out of the workforce, and stop employers from exploiting "H" visas. Employers will be motivated to "train and retain" up and coming youths who's schools have abandoned teaching blue collar skills. These kids need can be successfully placed with job training in the American culture where it is illegal to discriminate and there are ways to seek redress.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
I doubt that. Trump is going to be victim of the most effective negative ad campaign since LBJ destroyed Goldwater in 64.
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If you think ads against Trump are going to be negative and effective, wait until the attack ads against Hillary Clinton begin.
 
chuckiechan said:
I believe a labor shortage will be created by getting illegals out of the workforce, and stop employers from exploiting "H" visas.
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Oh, but I think you mistaken there. Quite apart from the very real issue of the shortage of qualified labor among natives (being a good gardener or a construction worker requires some serious skills), there is the reality of investment on the margin. A lot - if not most - projects that are underway utilizing the "illegal" workforce would not be started at all if compensation for labor (medical insurance and all, not just wages) would have to be higher. No buildings built or renovated, no crops planted, etc. Hence no profits generated and reinvested, no future growth in employment for everyone (and no proportional tax revenue, if you care). The physical reality is that there's a sizable chunk of "grey economy" of which the "illegal immigrants" are an integral part. You take them way, the chunk dissolves into nothing.

As for the community improvement, it doesn't have too be the Chinese laundry next door employing a black youth (not gonna happen). It is about the difference between an economically barren housing project ghetto and a diverse bustling neighborhood that attracts all kinds of investments. Money in, all kinds of jobs for all kinds of people will follow.
 
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Good Grief.

I'm going to admit that we are too far apart here.

You seem to believe in an economy free of citizenship's advantages. I don't. I want wages up, and Americans in the factory. And illegal labor isn't the way to get it.
 
chromium said:
White flight took off decades ago and was in response to race riots and just a disdain for minorities. If those same people move back to say detroit, if they're still alive and now in poverty and their houses they sold are still around, they will be MUCH cheaper. If any of them bailed out due to decreasing home values and not racism, like a stock gone sour, and would never go back, that's unfortunate, but that's life. We see the same forces at work after the 08 collapse and things like corporate farms moving to rural areas and (literally) ****ting up the neighborhood. Conversely, 'gentrification' causes homeowners to be priced out and have to leave. I can only have so much pity for one situation and not the other

As for AA, yes it harms a few thousand asian applicants at elite universities. OTOH, they tend to be overall focused on academics and not on extracurriculars
Click to expand...

Gentrification is literally the opposite of what I'm describing, they are two sides to a coin. But gentrification is a good thing in my opinion, because it breaks up mostly segregated neighborhoods for one, and for two it represents investment that is ultimately going to help everyone in the long term. When we talk about a legacy of issues affecting the black community, segregation and continued segregation has to be first on that list. Gentrification is tool which helps break up these legacy neighborhoods.

So blacks and hispanics are getting a close to 300 point boost to their SAT scores because "Asians don't do enough extracurriculars?" No, extracurriculars aren't going to put a 1200 SAT student over a 1500 SAT student; only race can do that. Its an absolute farce of a system; and then you wonder why people perceive certain minority groups as being "less capable." Well if you went to Harvard and a certain group of people got in with much lower scores and grades than the rest of their peers; you might find yourself having the perception as well. It cheapens the accomplishments of everyone involved, because its no longer a system solely based on merit.
 
chuckiechan said:
I want wages up, and Americans in the factory.
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Good goal. I just don't believe that kicking the illegals out is conducive to its achievement. The bigger pie for everyone (which the illegals help to grow) is.
 
phattonez said:
I'm talking about since the '60s on. They've had the benefits of affirmative action, special workplace protections, and they use far more welfare than any other groups, especially whites and Asians.
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Did you really say this? OMG, heads will explode! This is not the PC narrative.
 
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