Do you support Voter ID Laws?

PROS:

- Prevents voter fraud
- Common sense law: You need ID to to buy beer drive, and fly, why not voting?
- Adopted in most European countries

CONS:

-Racist/prevents minorities from voting.

Bucky said:

PROS:

- Prevents voter fraud
- Common sense law: You need ID to to buy beer drive, and fly, why not voting?
- Adopted in most European countries

CONS:

-Racist/prevents minorities from voting.

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There are a few more cons than that. For example, it can be used to manipulate turnout and demographics in various combinations with gerrymandering and lobbyists.

I think voting is constitutional protected right...so I support automatic voter registration for every US citizen over the age of 18.

Bucky said:

PROS:

- Prevents voter fraud
- Common sense law: You need ID to to buy beer drive, and fly, why not voting?
- Adopted in most European countries

CONS:

-Racist/prevents minorities from voting.

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:roll:

If the laws were not overly complicated and the IDs were cheap as hell, then I would support them more often. Not because I think they would do anything (voter fraud is practically non-existent), but they would largely be irrelevant. However, in many states it's not so simple. In my state, which has never had even the slightest hint of rumors surrounding illegal voting (we are a Republican supermajority in almost all aspects, by the way), because of economics we have a highly mobile population (property values skyrocketed, forcing families that have been grounded for generations to leave these towns in the last 2 years or less), and we now have a voter ID law. The state promoted it was "easy as pie" (or some other piece of Americana explaining its simplicity) to vote.

The result in the immediately following election? Many multi-generation native-state voters were told to travel hundreds of miles to vote on election day (I'm not exaggerating on the mileage), students were turned away en mass (we have a lot of native state voters, some who recently came from the neighboring state), the Department of Transportation had a server malfunction that mis-identified a large number of voters as living somewhere else, the Secretary of State was warned of these and other issues and publicly said he would not be intervening in the weeks preceding the election, and for the first time in memory the State's political parties had to help direct voters of all ages to the correct destination or give their sincerest apology for not knowing what to do.

The state government's reaction to that confusion? Make it even harder for students to vote and ignore the infrastructure problem that existed.

It was the dumbest thing I have seen in a long time. My state has never had voting problems until state Republicans wanted to follow the national trend. We're a Republican supermajority state that is lily white, less than a few percent are hispanics or Latinos, and the Democratic Party is in such shambles it has a hard time recruiting candidates to lose most of these races, much less win them.

What was the need? What were they trying to prove?

countryboy said:

:roll:

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I certainly do not support that argument but that seems to be the #1 argument used by those against voter id laws.

Bucky said:

I certainly do not support that argument but that seems to be the #1 argument used by those against voter id laws.

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Leftists use all kinds of false arguments. :shrug:

Bucky said:

PROS:

- Prevents voter fraud
- Common sense law: You need ID to to buy beer drive, and fly, why not voting?
- Adopted in most European countries

CONS:

-Racist/prevents minorities from voting.

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Do you mean voter ID laws that do nothing more than require an ID? Or do you mean voter ID laws that include reduced early voting, removal of local control of keeping polls open late, reduced absentee voting, and students having to vote at their parents precincts? There is a pretty significant difference, and the latter abounds.

Also note that voter ID laws are race blind, and any targeting they do to make voting more difficult is not based on race, but in geography. Throwing out the term "racism" all the time dilutes the impact of the term.

It's the law right now in Texas. I show my driver's license and vote. It's hardly this super complex, nefarious, super complex process. I guess my question is why voting is the only thing folks on the left object to requiring a picture ID. Isn't it equally like to have this terrible impact on minority people any time ID is required for anything?

Bucky said:

PROS:

- Prevents voter fraud
- Common sense law: You need ID to to buy beer drive, and fly, why not voting?
- Adopted in most European countries

CONS:

-Racist/prevents minorities from voting.

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The con you have listed is one of the biggest BS arguments present in political debates. :roll:

countryboy said:

Leftists use all kinds of false arguments. :shrug:

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Discrimination/unfairness being the common thread of crap amongst them.

Voter IDs are fine.
21st century Jim Crow voter suppression aspects in the fine print aren't.
Cons will continue to play this con.
Especially those cons who throw all lefties into the same bag and lie about them .

X Factor said:

It's the law right now in Texas. I show my driver's license and vote. It's hardly this super complex, nefarious, super complex process. I guess my question is why voting is the only thing folks on the left object to requiring a picture ID. Isn't it equally like to have this terrible impact on minority people any time ID is required for anything?

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You might want to look at what is included in most of those laws. Hint: they tend to do much more than require an ID.

Redress said:

You might want to look at what is included in most of those laws. Hint: they tend to do much more than require an ID.

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Having voted here both before and after picture ID was required, I can honestly say that the experience has been exactly the same. Actually it's been easier because there have been a lot more early polling locations (but that's unrelated). You're right though in that I know nothing about other state's requirements.

X Factor said:

Having voted here both before and after picture ID was required, I can honestly say that the experience has been exactly the same. Actually it's been easier because there have been a lot more early polling locations (but that's unrelated). You're right though in that I know nothing about other state's requirements.

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I do think Texas passed a relatively clean bill, but other states, well, read my earlier post that lists some of the things they do.

X Factor said:

It's the law right now in Texas. I show my driver's license and vote. It's hardly this super complex, nefarious, super complex process. I guess my question is why voting is the only thing folks on the left object to requiring a picture ID. Isn't it equally like to have this terrible impact on minority people any time ID is required for anything?

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If the Hispanic population in Texas keeps growing at it's current rate, then maybe you can tell us how voter ID effects minorities when you become one.

Bucky said:

PROS:

- Prevents voter fraud
- Common sense law: You need ID to to buy beer drive, and fly, why not voting?
- Adopted in most European countries

CONS:

-Racist/prevents minorities from voting.

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Why should such laws prevent minorities from voting? You can formulate such laws poorly, but that should not be necessary unless your intent is such prevention.

I support making it as easy as possible for all qualified people to vote.

I can see why people would think it was designed to make it more difficult for certain minorities to vote...and maybe that was why it was initiated - I don't know.

But the idea of photo ID being required to vote seems like common sense to me. On something as important as voting, having visual confirmation of the voter's identification seems like a very sensible idea.

At least that is how I see it...but I could be wrong as I am not not solid on this issue.

DA60 said:

I can see why people would think it was designed to make it more difficult for certain minorities to vote...and maybe that was why it was initiated - I don't know.

But the idea of photo ID being required to vote seems like common sense to me. On something as important as voting, having visual confirmation of the voter's identification seems like a very sensible idea.

At least that is how I see it...but I could be wrong as I am not not solid on this issue.

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I see it very much the same way. It seems to make sense to me that you would want to prevent double vote casting and allow only citizens to vote. I would not want to go as far as Germany does, where you vote where you are registered with the police and show the invitation to participate as proof. But documenting and controlling the vote to stop fraud seems important.

Moot said:

I think voting is constitutional protected right...so I support automatic voter registration for every US citizen over the age of 18.

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Not to argue Moot, but the 2nd isn't a constitutional right?

You seem ok with regulations for the 2nd.

RetiredUSN said:

Not to argue Moot, but the 2nd isn't a constitutional right?

You seem ok with regulations for the 2nd.

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Why would you bring the 2nd amendment into this thread?

But since you did, the 2nd amendment is in the Bill of Rights. Most people who can read for comprehension understand what the word Rights mean .

NIMBY said:

Why would you bring the 2nd amendment into this thread?

But since you did, the 2nd amendment is in the Bill of Rights. Most people who can read for comprehension understand what the word Rights mean .

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I was asking Moot. We had a earlier back and forth over the issue.

Why do I have to carry a concealed carry card, if it is might protected right to begin with?

I think it’s always been questionable whether there is any significant voter fraud that voter ID would actually prevent, I don’t think “common sense” is a good argument for a law in itself and being more like Europe is hardly a way to sell a policy to Americans .

I don’t think there is much direct racism involved in this but I do think that some of the politicians proposing or supporting the idea do so because they believe (rightly or not) that it will discourage some people from voting and they think those people would vote disproportionately against them. That there will be racial imbalances within that is a wider issue not specifically related to voter ID.

I think there is a related issue with that since I’d suggest this issue should focus as much on voter registration as much as actual voting. After all, some of the real concerns about voter fraud in this area relates to things like deceased people still being on the register. I’d have much more faith in some kind of wider and structured set of proposals across this while area that simplistic calls for voter ID.

How is it RACIST ? Most blacks & Hispanics I know ALSO have driver's licenses.

There is a word for that, I currently have forgotten...the bigotry of _______. ASSuming minorities are poor unfortunates incapable of achieving anything on their own.