• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Is Bernie Sanders a coward?

Is Bernie Sanders a coward?

  • Total voters
    85
RetiredUSN said:
Geeeees! I was simply clarifying what the guy was possibly asking you in that post.

I don't really care what your beliefs are.

But.....there is a difference between volunteering to go to Irag/Afghanistan than being sent.

You volunteered for service, but were actually sent after after join had joined.

You didn't volunteer for Iraq/Afghanistan..........................you were sent.

I smell a bit of stolen valor in your posts, which is pretty shameful................... because just making yourself available was all that was needed to be appreciated.
Click to expand...

Jesus ****ing Christ. What a douchey comment. Stolen Valor? You can properly go to hell. You inserted yourself into the conversation then sling these low brow insults. I simply explained that unlike a conscientious objector I VOLUNTEERED FOR COMBAT ARMS IM A TIME OF WAR. Wars should be fought by volunteers, we shouldn't be pushing our citizens between two sets of guns.

I don't have anything to prove, especially to someone who probably spent the entire time on a ship then chooses to run his mouth on Internet forums. Run along boy.
 
Last edited:
RabidAlpaca said:
Jesus ****ing Christ. What a douchey comment. Stolen Valor? You can properly go to hell. You inserted yourself into the conversation then sling these low brow insults. I simply explained that unlike a conscientious objector I VOLUNTEERED FOR COMBAT ARMS IM A TIME OF WAR. Wars should be fought by volunteers, we shouldn't be pushing our citizens between two sets of guns.

I don't have anything to prove, especially to someone who probably spent the entire time on a ship then chooses to run his mouth on Internet forums. Run along boy.
Click to expand...

LOL...yes it was douchey. You earned it.
 
It takes more bravery to stand up for what you believe in then to do what you are told when you disagree with it.

Fighting for your country in a war you do not agree with is not patriotic...it's stupid.
 
Last edited:
I joined the military when I was 18 for various reasons...one of which was a misplaced belief in patriotism.

There is now NO WAY I would EVER do that again (unless there was a noble cause to fight for...let me know when you find one).

I no longer see the military as an honorable profession (except during VERY rare, just wars and during disasters). I see it as little more then a bunch of (mostly) ignorant, well intentioned, brave people who are under the misguided notion that the government (ANY federal government) is not a self serving bunch of dishonorable cowards who would gladly sacrifice their nation's soldiers to attain more power.

Occasionally, there are just wars. But they are DEFINITELY in the vast minority.


If you disagree, you are mistaken.
 
Last edited:
Kobie said:
No, he didn't earn it. That was a prick comment and you ****ing know it.
Click to expand...

For the record, I'm not calling anyone a prick. I'm just stating that's a rotten thing to say to a fellow vet because you don't like what they say.
 
Bucky said:
This forum clearly has more liberal posters but that does not make them more right.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure if you are just kidding here or not, Bucky.

This IS NOT a liberal forum in any way, shape, or form.

I honestly think it is more balanced than most...but it definitely is predominantly conservative.
 
SmokeAndMirrors said:
No. Refusing to kill people for an unjust cause is the only ethical choice, actually.

We could really stand to have more people like that in the government. Maybe we'd have fewer callous and needless wars and less senseless loss of both American and foreign lives.
Click to expand...



He's an absolute coward, a real "conscientious" objector would not have:


In 1998, Bernie's name was included as a YEA vote on HR 4655, the Iraqi Liberation Act of 1998, which expressed the sense of Congress that it should be the aim of the United States to remove Saddam Hussein from power.

In 1999, Bernie voted for HR 2465, which provided $4 billion for military construction, and he voted for HR 3196, which provided: $2.16 billion for military and economic assistance to Israel; $760 million for military and economic assistance to Egypt; $535 million for Eastern European and the Baltic States, including $150 million for assistance to Kosovo; $300 million for military and economic assistance to Jordan; and $285 million for international narcotics control."


Staunch supporter of the Kosovo/Yugoslavia bombings, war..

Writes Ron Jacobs of Counter Punch, 3/31/2003:

"For those of us with a memory longer than the average US news reporter, we can remember Bernie's staunch support for Clinton's 100-day bombing of Yugoslavia and Kosovo in 1999. I served as a support person for a dozen or so Vermonters who sat-in in his Burlington office a couple weeks into that war. Not only did Sanders refuse to talk with us via telephone (unlike his Vermont counterparts in the Senate-Leahy and Jeffords), he had his staff call the local police to arrest those who refused to leave until Sanders spoke with them. The following week Sanders held a town hall meeting in Montpelier, VT., where he surrounded himself with sympathetic war supporters and one university professor who opposed the war and Bernie's support for it. During the question and answer part of the meeting, Sanders yelled at two of the audience's most vocal opponents to his position and told them to leave if they didn't like what he had to say."

Following the 9/11 attacks, Bernie voted in favor of H J Res 64 - Authorization for Use of Military Force, which allowed President Bush to use the United States Armed Forces against anyone involved with 9/11 and any nation that harbors these individuals.


Voted for every war budget since.

During the same year, he called closing the torturous gulag at Guantanamo a "complicated issue" and ultimately rejected a proposal to shut it down.

In 2011, Bernie co-sponsored S. Res. 85, which urged the UN Security Council to take action to protect civilians in Libya from attack, including the possible imposition of a no-fly zone over Libyan territory.

Later that year, Bernie came out in favor of airstrikes against ISIS. He is also in favor of shipping armaments to the Kurds in Iraq for the purpose of fighting off terror groups, a failed strategy that the Obama administration implemented with the Syrian "rebels" some years prior. "I think we should arm them," Sanders said during a CNN interview. "Even that's a difficult issue - to make sure that the people that we arm today don't turn against us tomorrow. But I think providing arms for those people who we can trust and providing air support is in fact something we should be doing."
 
RetiredUSN said:
Bernie would be a far better CIC, than Hillary. He understands that the military should be a last resort to settle things.

Stolen valor is taken seriously by our troops, and Hillary tops the list.
Click to expand...



You folks keep saying this, but it's not true. other than the vote to authorize use of force in iraq, he has supported pretty much EVERY military action any democrat wanted.
 
Chomsky said:
Thank you. I value your opinion in these matters. But there's something I've heard over the years: The guy least likely to want war, is a soldier". I've never had the occasion to serve, but I suspect there's some truth in that.
Click to expand...

I did serve as a soldier and have the scars and somewhat jaundice view to prove it. That old saw was true back when the vast majority of soldiers stood ready for the Red Badge of Courage. These days even the most REMF 'soldier' who never leaves the office environment wears Battle Dress Uniform... :roll:

Now I'd opine any CO who faced the same dangers as a DFG (dumb freakin grunt) who humped the PRiC or manned the Pig will fit your adage far better than a playboy jet jockey who never left stateside.

I know this, I don't have the inner strength to take all the **** a CO got going through training and then go under fire unarmed and expected to race out into killing fields to save a grunt who was calling me everything but white boy a day ago.... :peace
 
ReverendHellh0und said:
You folks keep saying this, but it's not true. other than the vote to authorize use of force in iraq, he has supported pretty much EVERY military action any democrat wanted.
Click to expand...

You folks keep saying this, but it's not true... name the 'EVERY military actions'...

on May 6, 1999 he voted against a ground war in Yugoslavia. Who was in office?

His Kosovo vote was for air attacks, not boots on the ground, to stop systematic ethnic cleansing....

Invading Afghanistan was to try and capture/kill OBL the mastermind of 9/11.

Perhaps the problem with some detractors is the ability to recognize a war thrust upon the civilized world and one of choice for political gain.

Bernie seems to get it right far more than many others who would wear the Purple Robe.... :peace
 
DA60 said:
I joined the military when I was 18 for various reasons...one of which was a misplaced belief in patriotism. There is now NO WAY I would EVER do that again (unless there was a noble cause to fight for...let me know when you find one). I no longer see the military as an honorable profession (except during VERY rare, just wars and during disasters). I see it as little more then a bunch of (mostly) ignorant, well intentioned, brave people who are under the misguided notion that the government (ANY federal government) is not a self serving bunch of dishonorable cowards who would gladly sacrifice their nation's soldiers to attain more power. Occasionally, there are just wars. But they are DEFINITELY in the vast minority. If you disagree, you are mistaken.
Click to expand...

How long have you been out? What did you do in the military?

I joined at age 18 for no real reason other than I thought every able bodied man should serve in some branch of the Armed Forces. I chose Infantry because i wasn't going to do 20 and felt the Infantry was the 'most' service my short time would be.

That was decades ago. I think many vets go through stages- like grief- when it comes to their service, those they served and the 'grateful' nation.

The military is an honorable profession, the problem lies more in the politicians who use it than the men who wear the various uniforms.

I to this day feel many times our soldiers are called to sacrifice on distant shores not to defend our freedoms but to protect our national interests- be it control of major oil fields or show our 'allies' we will be their if they get attacked.

This will continue as long as some of we think we can force other nations to accept an American overlord, as long as some of we continue to believe in American Exceptionalism...

I do hope your attitude evolves with time, good luck... :peace
 
notquiteright said:
How long have you been out? What did you do in the military?
Click to expand...
No offense, but that is none of your business.

I joined at age 18 for no real reason other than I thought every able bodied man should serve in some branch of the Armed Forces. I chose Infantry because i wasn't going to do 20 and felt the Infantry was the 'most' service my short time would be.

That was decades ago. I think many vets go through stages- like grief- when it comes to their service, those they served and the 'grateful' nation.

The military is an honorable profession, the problem lies more in the politicians who use it than the men who wear the various uniforms.

I to this day feel many times our soldiers are called to sacrifice on distant shores not to defend our freedoms but to protect our national interests- be it control of major oil fields or show our 'allies' we will be their if they get attacked.

This will continue as long as some of we think we can force other nations to accept an American overlord, as long as some of we continue to believe in American Exceptionalism...

I do hope your attitude evolves with time, good luck... :peace
Click to expand...

I do not think the military is an honourable profession. I think many of the people in it are. An institution cannot be honorable on it's own - only it's people can make it honorable or not.
 
notquiteright said:
You folks keep saying this, but it's not true... name the 'EVERY military actions'...
Click to expand...

http://www.debatepolitics.com/us-pa...forms/245082-bernie-sanders-chicken-hawk.html

on May 6, 1999 he voted against a ground war in Yugoslavia. Who was in office?

His Kosovo vote was for air attacks, not boots on the ground, to stop systematic ethnic cleansing....
Click to expand...


why would a "conscientious objector" vote for killing people?


BBC News | EUROPE | Kosovo assault 'was not genocide'

Invading Afghanistan was to try and capture/kill OBL the mastermind of 9/11.
Click to expand...

So the guy who said he wouldn't go because he was a "conscientious objector" was ok with sending other peoples sons and daughters off to war.

Perhaps the problem with some detractors is the ability to recognize a war thrust upon the civilized world and one of choice for political gain.
Click to expand...


perhaps the problem is with bernie true believers is that facts really don't matter.


Bernie seems to get it right far more than many others who would wear the Purple Robe.... :peace
Click to expand...


so you are saying he got some of these wrong?
 
DA60 said:
No offense, but that is none of your business. I do not think the military is an honourable profession. I think many of the people in it are. An institution cannot be honorable on it's own - only it's people can make it honorable or not.
Click to expand...

No offense but I've heard too many REMF pudknockers whine about the military because they didn't like being told what to do, or get up early or eat institutional food. A few real jerk-offs thought they were smarter than their bosses and figured they could do whatever, whenever, their way. then were all butt hurt when the UCMJ descended upon their tent peg little heads...

Hmmm if many in a profession are honorable and an institution can't be honorable (or dishonorable) on it's own, looks like the Military is basically an honorable Institution, due to many of it's members being honorable. Now I'll grant the institution can be subverted by dishonorable personnel in key positions- is why i think we have too many desk bound colonels looking for some way to get that star, and I really rankle when some limp pecker politicians demand we 'get tough' with some piss pot dictator...

but the Military is an honorable Institution and profession...

of course you can disagree... :peace
 
notquiteright said:
No offense but I've heard too many REMF pudknockers whine about the military because they didn't like being told what to do, or get up early or eat institutional food. A few real jerk-offs thought they were smarter than their bosses and figured they could do whatever, whenever, their way. then were all butt hurt when the UCMJ descended upon their tent peg little heads...

Hmmm if many in a profession are honorable and an institution can't be honorable (or dishonorable) on it's own, looks like the Military is basically an honorable Institution, due to many of it's members being honorable. Now I'll grant the institution can be subverted by dishonorable personnel in key positions- is why i think we have too many desk bound colonels looking for some way to get that star, and I really rankle when some limp pecker politicians demand we 'get tough' with some piss pot dictator...

but the Military is an honorable Institution and profession...

of course you can disagree... :peace
Click to expand...

Assuming the military is only as honorable as those who serve in it, you cannot know if the military is an honorable institution unless you personally at least half of the people in the military and know them well enough to know whether they are honorable or not.

You can believe, hope or even assume it is an honorable profession. But you cannot know.
 
Bucky said:
Isn't a conscientious objector just another way to say you are a coward?
Click to expand...

Refusing to get into a fight you don't believe in just means you aren't a lemming.
 
Higgins86 said:
I think he is a coward just based on the fact he wasn't willing to go to war for his country but now is running for a position which will see him send young men/women into danger.
Click to expand...

Because, you know, Bernie is just itching to get another war started.
 
ReverendHellh0und said:
why would a "conscientious objector" vote for killing people? BBC News | EUROPE | Kosovo assault 'was not genocide' So the guy who said he wouldn't go because he was a "conscientious objector" was ok with sending other peoples sons and daughters off to war. perhaps the problem is with bernie true believers is that facts really don't matter. so you are saying he got some of these wrong?
Click to expand...

I understand nuance isn't your strong suit, but let's try anyway....

The CO was during a time when the government forced men to go overseas and kill people. many men ducked the draft- some because daddy took care of it, some got over a half dozen deferments. Wars being fought for dumbass reasons are objected to by millions of Americans (the war didn't end because Nixon got bored with it all but MILLIONS of Americans were against killing the yellow man)

Next I put CO in the same place I do same sex marriage and abortions- don't like 'em, don't do 'em. It's a personal thing, not a group thing. Most people are clear sighted to see the difference between just and unjust, many more can see defending those who can't defend themselves will sometimes require those WHO VOLUNTEERED to serve in the Military to kill or be killed.

I was a grunt, a volunteer, understood my job, was willing to do it... it didn't matter one bit a Quaker President was ordering massive bombing, or troops to kill civilians and pretty much anyone who got in the way...

Now about Kosovo- the UN charged Milosevic with GENOCIDE in Bosnia and war crimes in Croatia. (this is after the 2001 article you cite) But then again I said ethnic cleansing, not genocide. but whatever you wish to call it, the Serbians did fill mass graves with men, women, and children, they rounded up and held under brutal conditions many civilians, used terror to control Sarajevo. Quibble over the terms and when they were used- the trail was for genocide.

Now I can see someone feel personally killing is against their moral code, but understand there are times the nation must defend itself. We no longer have a draft, millions of men can now openly claim serving the nation just isn't on their radars. Now when the nation reacts to a threat, moves to protect innocent life from evil, the men and women who go do so because they have that calling. (those who stay behind like to call it a 'career choice')

It is a huge difference from the Vietnam era, some see it, some don't... :peace

Oh I don't think I'd vote for Bernie as my President, I believe we need to move back to the left when it comes to healthcare and the social safety net- just pretty sure the PUBs will double down on the assinine rhetoric and dig their heels in even worse when working together is required.
 
Bucky said:
Bernie refusing to serve his country, analogous to a father who refuses to pay child support or a citizen that refuses to pay taxes.
Click to expand...

Much like those abolitionists who helped slaves escape (much better analogy, imo). How dare he disobey the Almighty State!
 
ocean515 said:
What is remarkable is the loss of memory by socialist progressives who certainly have expended tremendous energy during previous administrations making the same coward claims.
Click to expand...

It is a lot easier to make those claims when those who are eager for war refused/failed to serve, themselves.
 
Geoist said:
It is a lot easier to make those claims when those who are eager for war refused/failed to serve, themselves.
Click to expand...

I suppose that would depend on the ability to find people in positions of power who are "eager for war".
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom