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Did Finicum pull his pistol? Yes/No

Did Finicum pull/not pull his pistol?

  • Finicum pulled his pistol.

    Votes: 14 77.8%
  • Finicum did not pull his pistol.

    Votes: 4 22.2%

  • Total voters
    18
- Not that I am aware of? Do you have a source which the FBI has changed their story?

- Who should one trust?

No I don't so unless he or the LEOs put a gun back in his pocket.....

This thread is useless with HD.
 
Has the FBI changed their story about a 9mm in his 'pocket? [which I doubt would be where he was carrying]

The whole drone video seems disturbing to me also but, it confirms that we shouldn't trust the FedGov.

I often carry in a jacket pocket when it is cool enough for a jacket. It was snow covered where he was shot.
 
The corpses of children cannot hear you.

WHAT? Seriously? Your response is "dead children?" I'm sorry, how much blood had been spilled by warring Europeans and the colonial nightmares you caused. And let's not forget that America is a very safe place to live...and that our 1 true problem is that we have very good rights that get abused by the criminals.
 
WHAT? Seriously? Your response is "dead children?" I'm sorry, how much blood had been spilled by warring Europeans and the colonial nightmares you caused. And let's not forget that America is a very safe place to live...and that our 1 true problem is that we have very good rights that get abused by the criminals.
Sadly, it has to be admitted that no part of America can any longer be guaranteed safe from gun-toting killers.
 
The question isn't whether Finicum reached for a gun, he did. At issue is whether he was shot or shot at before he reached for his gun. The FBI says he reached first but in another thread on this I have explained how it's possible that the FBI was first to engage. That being said, Finicum had every opportunity to do things the easy way and chose not to. Whether the FBI shot him while his hands were up or not it was the kind of incident where LEO's should not be prosecuted.

Some here have said in another thread that he did not pull his gun. He was told by LEOs to put his hands up, and he did at first, but then he dropped them, and reached inside his coat More than enough reason for the LEOs to then open fire.

I've read that it was the OR State police who gunned him down.

I agree, Finicum had every opportunity to do things the easy way and chose not to, and that the LEOs shouldn't be prosecuted
 
None of us were there. None of us can know.

But from what I have seen and read...the 'cops' were justified in shooting him.

But just barely.

We all CAN know by watching the video closely in the OP.
 
Please watch linked Video carefully.


Finicum was facing the camera, he had his hands up @ first, then he dropped his hands...and then he had his back to the camera, reached into his left pocket, and then extended his right hand, and you can see the gun against the white of the snow, just for a split-second. Then it appeared that he was trying to **** it, or maybe trying to take the safety off. He was wearing dark colored gloves, so it's hard to make out. (It seems unlikely, but maybe Finicum finally realized that he WAS about to be shot, changed his mind and put the pistol back into his left pocket.)

Also, this article states that OR State Troopers gunned him down.

See this vid, and article. Watch closely @ the close up @ 21 sec. use pause/play button to freeze at the proper time. Also, see the slo-motion portion, esp. @ 49 sec.


FBI releases video footage of LaVoy Finicum shooting | OregonLive.com




Your poll is flawed. needs "cant tell from grainy video".



anyway, here you can see from the FBI,. that the answer is no, he didn't actually pull it unless he put it back in his pocket after he was shot.


"“On at least two occasions, Finicum reaches his right hand toward a pocket on the left inside portion of his jacket. He did have a loaded 9-millimeter semiautomatic handgun in that pocket,” said Greg Bretzing, the FBI agent in charge of Oregon. Bretzing praised officers for not shooting earlier, when Finicum tried to barrel through."

FBI Releases Video of Shooting of Oregon Occupier LaVoy Finicum - The Atlantic
 
Some here have said in another thread that he did not pull his gun. He was told by LEOs to put his hands up, and he did at first, but then he dropped them, and reached inside his coat More than enough reason for the LEOs to then open fire.

I've read that it was the OR State police who gunned him down.

I agree, Finicum had every opportunity to do things the easy way and chose not to, and that the LEOs shouldn't be prosecuted

Based on the reactions everyone had in the video (because no other evidence is out there) it's my take that the guy that jumped in front of Finicum's truck also shot him or shot at him while his hands were up and the first "move" people are seeing is Finicum reaching for the wound.
 
It looks like he had a gun in his left hand too and took at shot at the guy standing in the trees behind him :)29)

It's possible he was taking his gloves off when he first dropped his hands, and held them in his left hand while he reached for, and pulled his gun with his right hand.

There is no way to tell from that video whether he had a gun or not.

Nine ppl, myself included, disagree. I suggest you review the vid. I agree the vid isn't the best quality, but IMO, the gun can clearly be seen in his right hand @ 49 sec.

Has the FBI changed their story about a 9mm in his 'pocket? [which I doubt would be where he was carrying]

The whole drone video seems disturbing to me also but, it confirms that we shouldn't trust the FedGov.

AFAIK, the FBI hasn't changed their story at all. It was an FBI plane, and had a pilot, not a drone.

See post #32



Rev, So far, the FBI is unwilling to say whether Finicum did, or did not, have a gun in his hand
 
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Nine ppl, myself included, disagree. I suggest you review the vid. I agree the vid isn't the best quality, but IMO, the gun can clearly be seen in his right hand @ 49 sec.
I never take the word of nine people. I always wait for #10. And as for the bolded, nothing can be 'clearly seen' in that video. If you don't mind, I will wait for something with a little better quality.
 
It's possible he was taking his gloves off when he first dropped his hands, and held them in his left hand while he reached for, and pulled his gun with his right hand.
Can't say for sure, but I think the gun that he carried in his hip holster is probably the one he had in his right hand.

013016_2000_EnhancedVid1.jpg
 
The corpses of children cannot hear you.

So for you, "better a living dog than a dead lion?"

Please see my signature below, in blue.
 
Sadly, it has to be admitted that no part of America can any longer be guaranteed safe from gun-toting killers.

Who and what entity guarantees safety, period?

If that is your priority concern, you can certainly set up your life so that your funds go into armored vehicles to be safe in crashs, security guards, fancy security systems, never skiing or scuba diving or riding a bike or....doing much beyond walking in your yard, lol....eating raw or undercooked food or anything served in a restaurant, etc.

Yeah...feel free to dwell on and spend your money on a 'safe' life. Believe me, not everyone would sacrifice "a life" for "a safe life."
 
It's funny the FBI only zooms into that specific moment. But not the moments like when Ryan Bundy is wounded that's not shown up close. Only way for Bundy to have been wounded was police/fbi fired live rounds into the truck.

Let's get back to that video. Why is it such piss poor quality? Especially in this day of age when Uncle Sam can zoom in to read your car tags. So something weird about that. Why not release ground level cam views and audio yet? FBI only releases video which bolsters their position or puts doubt into the other sides story. So until those ground videos and audio is released.. I'd say we have no clue if he actually went for his weapon or not before he was shot the first time.

Now let me pose this.. why would Lavoy Finicum come out with his hands up then "reach" for his gun? He could have come out blazing right away, but did not. Which leads me to believe he was shot first by the cop in the lower right. That he was shot and turned while reaching for a weapon to defend himself.

So this could still be an unjustified shooting (first shot) and Finicum still could have reached for his weapon.

It's obviously an unjustified shooting for Ryan Bundy who was shot while in the truck still.

They were armed, fleeing police, and when cornered refused to surrender. Nothing done was unjustified.
 
I never take the word of nine people. I always wait for #10. And as for the bolded, nothing can be 'clearly seen' in that video. If you don't mind, I will wait for something with a little better quality.



"I can't do what ten people tell me to do..."
:mrgreen:
 
Please watch linked Video carefully.


Finicum was facing the camera, he had his hands up @ first, then he dropped his hands...and then he had his back to the camera, reached into his left pocket, and then extended his right hand, and you can see the gun against the white of the snow, just for a split-second. Then it appeared that he was trying to **** it, or maybe trying to take the safety off. He was wearing dark colored gloves, so it's hard to make out. (It seems unlikely, but maybe Finicum finally realized that he WAS about to be shot, changed his mind and put the pistol back into his left pocket.)

Also, this article states that OR State Troopers gunned him down.

See this vid, and article. Watch closely @ the close up @ 21 sec. use pause/play button to freeze at the proper time. Also, see the slo-motion portion, esp. @ 49 sec.


FBI releases video footage of LaVoy Finicum shooting | OregonLive.com

Finicum is just another Darwin Award Winner. That is all there is to this story. People who hang out with narcissistic paranoid idiots usually don't fare well, unless they are in the movie business or lawyers, maybe.
 
I'm pretty sure he pulled his gun.

Sure looked like it to me. Even if he didn't actually pull it, what was he doing out of the car and lowering his hand?
 
I often carry in a jacket pocket when it is cool enough for a jacket. It was snow covered where he was shot.

I personally don't think it's safe or he would given the number of holsters he employed.
 
The corpses of children cannot hear you.

If you want to be more balanced, and historically accurate, the private citizen is not responsible for the vast majority of dead children. That honor goes to governments.
 
Can't say for sure, but I think the gun that he carried in his hip holster is probably the one he had in his right hand.

013016_2000_EnhancedVid1.jpg

You would definitely be able to see that one.
 
It's possible he was taking his gloves off when he first dropped his hands, and held them in his left hand while he reached for, and pulled his gun with his right hand.



Nine ppl, myself included, disagree. I suggest you review the vid. I agree the vid isn't the best quality, but IMO, the gun can clearly be seen in his right hand @ 49 sec.



AFAIK, the FBI hasn't changed their story at all. It was an FBI plane, and had a pilot, not a drone.

See post #32



Rev, So far, the FBI is unwilling to say whether Finicum did, or did not, have a gun in his hand

OK a plane. No wonder it was such ****ty video.

If there was a gun in his hand I don't see what difference it would make at this point. They thought he was reaching for one the whole time.
 
I have been in this similar position about three (3) times. I am still alive today because I KEPT MY HANDS IN PLAIN SIGHT AND UP. I repeat...UP...fingers spread wide. Another factor is in the FIRE DISCIPLINE of the officer.

Cops are told it is HANDS that do the killing. That is why they want to SEE YOUR HANDS, and scream it out to you.

Bringing them down can be a death sentence, and in his case, it was.
 
Sadly, it has to be admitted that no part of America can any longer be guaranteed safe from gun-toting killers.

Neither can the rest of the world. PERIOD. Part of being human is realizing that EVIL is VERY REAL and some people have the balls to stop it. Others :/ cry about it and get mad at those who would stop it because they don't understand that in order to STOP bad people...sometimes violence is a must.

America had to kick the blood thirsty Europeans out. Thank Goodness. They might have dragged us into 2 wars that killed over 70 million total...oh wait
 
I personally don't think it's safe or he would given the number of holsters he employed.

Actually i do cause I have lost a lot of weight and it make my pants fall down. And holsters cand be uncomfortable on a road trip. When his hands came down and he was still moving I think the police got it right.
 
The question isn't whether Finicum reached for a gun, he did. At issue is whether he was shot or shot at before he reached for his gun. The FBI says he reached first but in another thread on this I have explained how it's possible that the FBI was first to engage. That being said, Finicum had every opportunity to do things the easy way and chose not to. Whether the FBI shot him while his hands were up or not it was the kind of incident where LEO's should not be prosecuted.

This is somewhere along the lines of what I'm thinking as well. I think it very likely that he was going for his gun. The question is, was it somewhat justified? We know that a lot more shots were fired because the passenger in the vehicle was shot. I've even read that he was shot at starting at the original stop that he drove away from. If it comes out that he was shot at multiple times before that point he may have figured that he was going down anyways and that he would do it standing on his own two feet and fighting.
 
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