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Did Finicum pull his pistol? Yes/No

Did Finicum pull/not pull his pistol?

  • Finicum pulled his pistol.

    Votes: 14 77.8%

  • Finicum did not pull his pistol.

    Votes: 4 22.2%
  • Total voters
    18
Crusdr57 said:
I agree w/ you, with the following exception:

Not all single-action .45 cals, (as this pistol appears to be) have to be reloaded one-at-a-time...I'm fairly sure you're talking about a 'gate-loading' pistol.

There are 'top-break' pistols, (sometimes called 'hinged') and also there are 'crane-arm' single-action 45 cals, (and smaller cal dbl-action crane-arm) pistols that do eject all 6 spent cartridges at once, by means of a 'star-extractor.'
(Google knows ALL, and I own a .32 dbl-action, w/ a 'crane-arm', also called a 'swing-out cylinder'.)

Also, there are 'quick-loader' devices that are basically a, (and usually plastic) 'rack' or holder that allows you to load all 6 live rounds at once....Clint E. is shown using one in a Dirty Harry movie.

P.S. It's obvious, Finicum wasn't ready to do battle, assuming that was his intent, and he should've dbl-checked his pistol before getting out of his vehicle.
Click to expand...

The crane arm you are talking about is for a DOUBLE action revolver, not a single action revolver like is on his hip.

YES, there are also top-break single action revolvers, but that is NOT what he is shown carrying.

I was talking exclusively about his single action revolver as shown on his hip.

I have a double action revolver that is quicker to reload than my autos. It is a S&W model 625-8 and uses full moon clips in 45ACP.

I also know all about SPEED LOADERS for revolvers and have been using them for years. Safariland makes the quickest and all you have to do is push down to drop the rounds in the cylinder instead of turn a knob like Dirty Harry did with his. Under pressure and stress as in a fight, people tend to forget which way to turn the knob. Turn it the wrong direction and it does nothing.

With my full moon clips you just drop them in. That is why reloading my 625 is even faster to reload than my 1911.

PS,...you can't really tell its caliber by looking at it in the holster. It could be a .357, a 45 Colt, a 41 mag, a 44 Mag or several other calibers. It does appear to be a stainless model but that is about all I can tell from that pic, but it could be nickle plated.

PPS...nice to meet a fellow gun nut.....hello, friend.
 
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Crusdr57 said:
It's true, Finicum is dead either way...but it makes a difference to me as I was told on another thread that I can't make this call...and.....it's 'technologically impossible' to see the gun...and...he didn't pull his gun. So I decided to start this, and get more opinions, etc.



:lol:



The FBI still says his 9mm was in his pocket.

The officer was hiding, and waiting for the next carload of nutjobs to try and run the road block.
Click to expand...

Fair enough. At least you're keeping this up for discussion.
 
Thrilla said:
the FBI said the weapon was still inside his coat.
(the only thing i find odd is that denim coats don't really have pockets big enough to hold a 9mm semi-auto... inside or out)

but the mere fact that he lowered his hands while at law enforcement gunpoint is enough to warrant summary execution in the US... it's been that way for quite awhile.

one other thing struck me as odd... why there was an officer hiding in the treeline?
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either flanked him when the truck was stopping or they posted agents at either flanks at the road block.


fbi says it was in his pocket, not sure why people are still arguing the rest.
 
Thrilla said:
so Grenada,Spain has absolutely no crime or conflicts between people?.....interesting.
Click to expand...

I wonder what he thinks of bribery and corruption? They have a lot of that.
 
Manc Skipper said:
The man was armed and had made multiple boasts that he would not go to jail/be taken alive. Surrounded by armed law officers, he brought down his hand inside his coat. Twice. At this point, what difference does it make? He did more than enough to invite a lethal response, and got what he wanted.
Click to expand...

People distrust federals even more than locals. And with good reason. Waco? Ruby ridge? They get a lot of training and not a lot of decision making OR they are being instructed to do things politically motivated. I personally think the first, but wouldn't be surprised by the second.
 
Crusdr57 said:
Please watch linked Video carefully.


Finicum was facing the camera, he had his hands up @ first, then he dropped his hands...and then he had his back to the camera, reached into his left pocket, and then extended his right hand, and you can see the gun against the white of the snow, just for a split-second. Then it appeared that he was trying to **** it, or maybe trying to take the safety off. He was wearing dark colored gloves, so it's hard to make out. (It seems unlikely, but maybe Finicum finally realized that he WAS about to be shot, changed his mind and put the pistol back into his left pocket.)

Also, this article states that OR State Troopers gunned him down.

See this vid, and article. Watch closely @ the close up @ 21 sec. use pause/play button to freeze at the proper time. Also, see the slo-motion portion, esp. @ 49 sec.


FBI releases video footage of LaVoy Finicum shooting | OregonLive.com
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Poll needs a "don't know, don't care" tab.

IMO, he forfeited his life once he reached. Do that, don't be surprised the cops put a cap in your ass.
 
stonewall50 said:
People distrust federals even more than locals. And with good reason. Waco? Ruby ridge? They get a lot of training and not a lot of decision making OR they are being instructed to do things politically motivated. I personally think the first, but wouldn't be surprised by the second.
Click to expand...

It was a local who shot him.
 
I can't really tell. It looks like he had a gun out in his right hand at one point and may have been putting it back inside his jacket while he had his back to the camera (he was turning toward the cop on his left), but I just can't tell after that. I also can't be sure that it was a gun in his right hand rather than his hand waving about at changing angles to the lense. The view is just too fuzzy.

He was certainly flailing around his waist a lot, plus he was known to be armed; that alone can easily get you shot in such a situation...especially so if the cops already know about your statements of intent to go down fighting....doubly especially so if you've just tried to run a blockade, nearly hitting a cop.

The more you do, the more likely any gesture is going to be taken as a threat.
 
danarhea said:
Of course I did. I am only saying no because he was shot before he could get that 9mm they found on him out of his pocket. But I am not voting no in your poll because your poll is misleading. By voting no, with the choices you gave, and the way you asked the question, it implies murder by the FBI here, when that was clearly not the case.
Click to expand...

IMO, he pulled his pistol before he was shot. With that said, he would've been shot either way as he dropped his hands, and due to this, the LEOs were justified in shooting him. (It was OR State Troopers who gunned him down.


It's a simple yes/no question, and my Poll question implies NO such thing.

Mr. P, and all...I see I should've added a 'not sure' option.
 
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RetiredNSmilin said:
The crane arm you are talking about is for a DOUBLE action revolver, not a single action revolver like is on his hip.

YES, there are also top-break single action revolvers, but that is NOT what he is shown carrying.

SNIP

PS,...you can't really tell its caliber by looking at it in the holster. It could be a .357, a 45 Colt, a 41 mag, a 44 Mag or several other calibers. It does appear to be a stainless model but that is about all I can tell from that pic, but it could be nickle plated.

PPS...nice to meet a fellow gun nut.....hello, friend.
Click to expand...

There are single-action revolvers w/ crane-arm cylinders. (I had assumed it was a single action 45 cal, as it was large, and most 45 cals are single, but there are some doubles.)

https://www.google.com/search?q=Sin...hWHpJQKHVy1B9YQ7AkIJw&biw=1024&bih=634#imgrc=

The Ruger LCR — The Most Advanced Revolver in the World



Also, I'm wondering how you can tell by that photo that his pistol, which IS in his holster, is in fact a gate-loader??? (Esp. so, after reading your PS.)

Yes, nice to meet you too...I'm just a 'small nut' compared to a neighbor. :2wave:
 
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Manc Skipper said:
It was a local who shot him.
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Wasn't he shot at by the FBI? There certainly was FBI and state presence. And that is plenty for the conspiracy theorists. And state officers too. Those are off CNN. And the one guy said he was shot at and the FBI denies it.

In other news: a terrorist group takes responsibility for a terrorist attack on our soil 15 years ago and people still believe the government did it.
 
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Crusdr57 said:
Please watch linked Video carefully.


Finicum was facing the camera, he had his hands up @ first, then he dropped his hands...and then he had his back to the camera, reached into his left pocket, and then extended his right hand, and you can see the gun against the white of the snow, just for a split-second. Then it appeared that he was trying to **** it, or maybe trying to take the safety off. He was wearing dark colored gloves, so it's hard to make out. (It seems unlikely, but maybe Finicum finally realized that he WAS about to be shot, changed his mind and put the pistol back into his left pocket.)

Also, this article states that OR State Troopers gunned him down.

See this vid, and article. Watch closely @ the close up @ 21 sec. use pause/play button to freeze at the proper time. Also, see the slo-motion portion, esp. @ 49 sec.


FBI releases video footage of LaVoy Finicum shooting | OregonLive.com
Click to expand...

I don't think it really matters considering he's previously threatened that he wouldn't be taken alive by federal authorities. And just as local police would shot anyone who makes a move that appears to be threatening - in this case the appearance of reaching for a gun or any concealed weapon - so would the FBI shoot first and ask questions later in a case like this. So, if we're going to give the benefit of the doubt to local law enforcement for shooting people on the streets - Black, White, Hispanic, whomever - then we should give the federal government (FBI) the same latitude especially given this man's history/prior comments. Besides, even at regular speed you can tell he pulled something out of his left jacket pocket. Watching the video in slow motion only confirms it. So, the issue really is moot.
 
I don't think a gun can be seen in his hand in the video and I don't believe any of the LEOs on site claimed he did pull his gun out of his jacket (or waistband or holster) but he clearly made at least two gestures to the inside of his jacket before he turned around to face the state trooper coming up behind him at which time his arms came down again suggesting he did it a third time. No matter how you slice it, Finicum was given more than enough time to get into a surrender position and chose not to. No gun needed to be pulled out or even present to justify his shooting (just ask the people who backed up Darren Wilson).

There's a lengthy and detailed account of Finicum's attempt to flee and his shooting by someone named Bob Owens who's a dedicated rightwing gunster with a website called "BearingArms." Even this guy says Finicum's shooting was fully justified.
 
Crusdr57 said:
There are single-action revolvers w/ crane-arm cylinders. (I had assumed it was a single action 45 cal, as it was large, and most 45 cals are single, but there are some doubles.)

https://www.google.com/search?q=Sin...hWHpJQKHVy1B9YQ7AkIJw&biw=1024&bih=634#imgrc=

The Ruger LCR — The Most Advanced Revolver in the World



Also, I'm wondering how you can tell by that photo that his pistol, which IS in his holster, is in fact a gate-loader??? (Esp. so, after reading your PS.)

Yes, nice to meet you too...I'm just a 'small nut' compared to a neighbor. :2wave:
Click to expand...

I your first link it shows a whole lot of double and single action revolvers. NOT ONE single action revolver with a crane arm. The ones that do have crane arms are all double action revolvers. A double action is called that because it can fire BOTH double action AND single action.

Your second link shows a double action revolver with a crane arm. It is capable of double AND single action firing.

There are no single action revolvers that have a crane arm.

Give me a specific make and model that is SINGLE ACTION ONLY and has a crane arm, and I will look at it and admit I am wrong if I am, but not so far.
 
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Objective Voice said:
I don't think it really matters considering he's previously threatened that he wouldn't be taken alive by federal authorities.
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Yes. This is more than enough cause for LEOs to shoot on sight. They showed remarkable restraint in allowing him to get as far as he did without shooting him. He was allowed more than enough opportunity to surrender, and decided to grandstand instead.
 
stonewall50 said:
Wasn't he shot at by the FBI? There certainly was FBI and state presence. And that is plenty for the conspiracy theorists. And state officers too. Those are off CNN. And the one guy said he was shot at and the FBI denies it.

In other news: a terrorist group takes responsibility for a terrorist attack on our soil 15 years ago and people still believe the government did it.
Click to expand...

He was shot by OR State Troopers.
 
RetiredNSmilin said:
I your first link it shows a whole lot of double and single action revolvers. NOT ONE single action revolver with a crane arm. The ones that do have crane arms are all double action revolvers. A double action is called that because it can fire BOTH double action AND single action.

Your second link shows a double action revolver with a crane arm. It is capable of double AND single action firing.

There are no single action revolvers that have a crane arm.

Give me a specific make and model that is SINGLE ACTION ONLY and has a crane arm, and I will look at it and admit I am wrong if I am, but not so far.
Click to expand...

I searched, "Single action pistols with crane arm" and that's what I came up with....you may be correct, but now I'm not sure. (I'll look around some more.) :peace
 
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Crusdr57 said:
He was shot by OR State Troopers.
Click to expand...

So NOT locals then. State troopers. Doesn't matter to my point though: my point is that the FBI was involved. Ergo they must have shot him to keep him from talking (much sarcasm ;) ). But thanks for letting me know who shot him. I couldn't find anything on WHO shot him. Like who pulled the trigger. The closest thing I found is that he was involved with a pursuit with state officers and the FBI.
 
Crusdr57 said:
I searched, "Single action pistols with crane arm" and that's what I came up with....you may be correct, but now I'm not sure. (I'll look around some more.) :peace
Click to expand...

I stand corrected, couldn't find one...and apparently, Google doesn't know ALL. :doh

stonewall50 said:
So NOT locals then. State troopers. Doesn't matter to my point though: my point is that the FBI was involved. Ergo they must have shot him to keep him from talking (much sarcasm ;) ). But thanks for letting me know who shot him. I couldn't find anything on WHO shot him. Like who pulled the trigger. The closest thing I found is that he was involved with a pursuit with state officers and the FBI.
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You're welcome...I read it in the OP's linked article. (Not sure, but I think both OR Troopers in video shot him.)

Is it possible Finicum was just waving his pistol trying to get shot to become a martyr for the Bundy cause???
(Sounds crazy, but many have said that he kept yelling, 'just shoot me...')
 
Crusdr57 said:
I stand corrected, couldn't find one...and apparently, Google doesn't know ALL. :doh



You're welcome...I read it in the OP's linked article. (Not sure, but I think both OR Troopers in video shot him.)

Is it possible Finicum was just waving his pistol trying to get shot to become a martyr for the Bundy cause???
(Sounds crazy, but many have said that he kept yelling, 'just shoot me...')
Click to expand...

From some of the stuff I'm reading suicide by cop is certainly possible. Wouldn't shock me. Check him for terminal illness.
 
Y'all know I am one of the first to condemn dubious shootings but this one looks justified. The guy keeps reacing into his pockets and even falls with what looks like a gun in his left hand at the end. Idiot could have simply given up in a much more peaceful manner but chose not to.
 
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