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Did Bundy's group in Oregon get what they deserve???

What do you think


  • Total voters
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Well personally I don't assume that law enforcement officers are just looking to kill people regardless of whether they are a suspect in the inner city or a nutjob that thinks of themselves as a member of a "militia". These nuts were armed to the teeth, they should have known that law enforcement would have been on edge when arresting them. I am pretty confident that once the evidence is released, its going to show it was the guy's own fault he was shot.

I have been pulled over on the way to hunting with a gun in the vehicle. As soon as the policeman walked up I announced I had a shotgun sitting next to me and held my arms where he could see. Of course there is nothing at all illegal about driving with a shotgun next to you, but I did not want him to be surprised by it. Particularly since I was in the city still and they were not used to dealing with a hunter. At any rate he told me to step outside the vehicle and I complied with everything he told me to do. He checked the gun and wrote me a warning for driving over the speed limit and I was on my way.

I seriously doubt these nuts took the same route I did when they were pulled over.

that's fine and dandy... i'm just saying there was no "shootout"... the shooting was completely one sided.

the video has been released, and from the looks of it, it seems like a good shoot on the part of the FBI ( he seemed to be reaching for his waistband, and there was a gun still in it's holster there)
 
It's strange to see such left wing, assuredly anti gun people so incredibly smug when gun violence by the government occurs.

not really.. they've been calling for the deaths of the militiamen since day 1. so of course they'll be smug when they get exactly what they wanted.
 
NY: 10/1/2011 — Police Arrest More Than 700 Protesters on Brooklyn Bridge
Madison, WI: 10-27-2011 — Madison Occupiers Lose Permit Due to Public Masturbation
Phoenix: 10/28/2011 — Flier at Occupy Phoenix Asks, “When Should You Shoot a Cop?”
NY: 10/18/2011 — Thieves Preying on Fellow Protesters
NY: 10/9/2011 — Stinking up Wall Street: Protesters Accused of Living in Filth as Shocking Pictures Show One Demonstrator Defecating on a POLICE CAR
NY: 10/7/2011 — Occupiers Rush Police … More
Cleveland: 10/18/2011 — ‘Occupy Cleveland’ Protester Alleges She Was Raped
NY: 10/10/2011 — ‘Increasingly Debauched’: Are Sex, Drugs & Poor Sanitation Eclipsing Occupy Wall Street?
Seattle: 10/18/2011 — Man Accused of Exposing Self to Children Arrested
10/12/2011 — Iran Supports ‘Occupy Wall Street’
Portland: 10/16/2011 – #OccupyPortland Protester Desecrates Memorial To U.S. War Dead
Portland: 10/15/2011 — #OccupyPortland Protesters Sing “F*** The USA”
Chicago: 10/17/2011 — COMMUNIST LEADER Cheered at Occupy Chicago
10/15/2011 — American Nazi Party Endorses Occupy Wall Street‘s ’Courage,‘ Tells Members to Support Protests and Fight ’Judeo-Capitalist Banksters’
Boston: 10/14/2011 — Coast Guard member spit on near Occupy Boston tents
Boston: 10/11/2011 — Boston Police Arrest Over 100 from Occupy Boston
New York: 10/11/2011 — “You Can Have Sex with Animals.”
New York: 10/15/2011 — Harassing Police with Accusations of Phony Injuries
New York: 10/9/2011 – ‘Occupy Wallstreet’ Protesters Steal from Local Businesses
New York: 10/25/2011 — Three Men Threatened to Kill 24-Year-Old Occupy Wall Street Protester for Reporting Rape
Baltimore: 10/18/2011 — #OccupyBaltimore Discourages Sexual Assault Victims from Contacting Police
Portland: 10/27/2011 — Occupy Portland’s Attempt At Wealth Redistribution Ends In Theft
Los Angeles: 10/14/2011 – Anti-Semitic Protester at Occupy Wall Street
10/27/2011 — A Death Threat From an Occupy Wall Street Protester
10/27/2011 – Anti-Semitic Tweet From Occupier or Sympathizer
Boston: 10/20/2011 — Occupy Boston Doesn’t Want Police Involved in Rape
New York: 10/5/2011: Anti-Semitic Occupier Screams About Jews, Israel
New York: 10/4/2011 — Occupier Taunts Jewish Man
Boston: 10/2011 — Occupiers Block Street
New York: 10/2011 — Occupier Tries to Steal Police Officer’s Gun
New York: 10/27/2011 — Occupiers Block Traffic, Get Arrested
Oakland: 10/27/2011 — Occupiers Throw Garbage at Police
Oakland: 10/19/2011 — Abusive #OccupyOakland Protesters Ban Media from Tent City
Eugene, OR: 10/19/2011 — Occupiers Displace Farmers’ Market Threatening Hundreds of Jobs
Portland, OR: 10/18/2011 — Capitalist Offering Jobs at Occupy Portland Finds Few Takers
NY: 10/20/2011 — #OccupyWallStreet Threatens Businesses, Patrons
NY: 10/14/2011 — Violence Breaks Out During #OccupyWallStreet March Toward Stock Exchange
NY: 10/14/2011 — Protesters March On Wall Street, Scuffle With Cops
Oakland: 10/19/2011 — #OccupyOakland Protesters Threaten Reporter
Oakland: 10/26/2011 — Occupiers Scuffle with Police
Oakland: 10/24/2011 — Protesters Storm, Vandalize, Shut Down Chase Bank
NY: 10/21/2011 — New Yorkers Fed Up With Noisy, Defecating Protesters
Oakland: 10/21/2011 — Occupy Oakland Evicted After Reports Of Crime And Intimidation
Oakland: 10/19/2011 — #OccupyOakland Out of Control: Rats, Graffiti, Vandalism, Sexual Harassment, Public Sex and Urination
Chicago: 10/26/2011 – Occupiers Under Investigation by FBI for Links to Terrorism
Cleveland: 10/29/2011 — Rape Reported at Occupy Cleveland
Dallas: 10/24/2011 — Police Investigating Possible Sexual Assault Of Teen At Occupy Dallas
Bloomington, IN: 10/26/2011 — Man Claims Occupy Bloomington Protesters Drugged, Handcuffed Him
NY: 10/10/2011 — Sex, Drugs and Hiding from the Law at Wall Street Protests
Glasgow: 10/26/2011 — Woman Gang-Raped
Boston: 10/23/2011 — Occupy Boston Protesters Arrested For Dealing Heroin – With 6 Year-Old in Tent
Portland: 10/16/2011 – Sex Offender Registers Occupy Portland Camp as Address
Denver: 10/15/2011 — Occupy Denver Demonstrator Accused of Groping TV Photographer
Lawrence, KS: 10/25/2011 — Sexual Assault Reported at Occupy Camp


Note the several incidents of being armed.

....and....what exactly is your point?

I'm not sure what you are trying to say. Again...if an "occupy wall street" protestor was killed in a situation in which they pulled a gun or motioned in a furtive manner towards a weapon, I would give the police the benefit of the doubt. Police have a right to use deadly force in a situation in which their own lives are threatened. The only time I take issue with the use of force by police are in situations where it is highly questionable (as in situations where the decedent did not have a weapon). Here....that wasn't the case.
 
that's fine and dandy... i'm just saying there was no "shootout"... the shooting was completely one sided.

the video has been released, and from the looks of it, it seems like a good shoot on the part of the FBI ( he seemed to be reaching for his waistband, and there was a gun still in it's holster there)

I agree with what you are saying. Moreover, even in the case of potentially dangerous extremists like these guys, its always a tragedy when anyone loses their life - particularly for their families. However, in this case I think ultimately the blame for this loss of life lies with the militia.
 
I agree with what you are saying. Moreover, even in the case of potentially dangerous extremists like these guys, its always a tragedy when anyone loses their life - particularly for their families. However, in this case I think ultimately the blame for this loss of life lies with the militia.

I just blame him.... he was fine until he reached for his waist.
that's a purposeful choice that everybody knows doesn't end well.

personally, I don't mind the militias... but like any other passionate group, they can do some really really dumb things. ( like take over a federal game reserve and believe it won't end badly)
 
They weren't shot for occupying the ranger station, they were shot during a traffic stop when they most likely stepped out of line with the officers doing the stop. The ranger station is still occupied.

Having said that, I keep wondering where all the sturm and drang from the left is about LE shooting someone. If this had been a group of black criminals, the left's loony fringe and convenient idiots brigade would be rioting in the streets...

Where's the sturm und drang from the right?
Just goes to show how inept conservatives are at protesting and rebellion. If you want an armed rebellion, you need liberals.
 
I don't feel anyone should be killed for their political beliefs, but....

THEY were the ones that brought their guns to the scene. INTENT might be construed by that.

Had they been dressed like hippies, wore beads, and played & sang protest songs around the campfire, I am certain things would have been different.

I feel BUNDY saw the success of his father's actions and all the support that generated, and was hoping for a repeat for the same.

Apples & oranges.

To quote Matthew Quigley, " This ain't Dodge City, and YOU (Bundy) ain't Wild Bill Hickock".
 
I just blame him.... he was fine until he reached for his waist.
that's a purposeful choice that everybody knows doesn't end well.

personally, I don't mind the militias... but like any other passionate group, they can do some really really dumb things. ( like take over a federal game reserve and believe it won't end badly)

Well right now the ones that are left are calling for other militias to come in and kill law enforcement if necessary. Those guys are nothing more than domestic terrorists. It's Time For Armed Bullies To Face The Law | Crooks and Liars

We have a system in this country. It can be very frustrating, but you can bring about change without arming yourself to the teeth and getting into confrontations and standoffs with the government. In fact, no one in this country has ever brought about change that way - even the South lost when they tried to go that route. Exponentially more change and justice has been brought about through non-violence in this country than anything else.
 
Well right now the ones that are left are calling for other militias to come in and kill law enforcement if necessary. Those guys are nothing more than domestic terrorists. It's Time For Armed Bullies To Face The Law | Crooks and Liars

We have a system in this country. It can be very frustrating, but you can bring about change without arming yourself to the teeth and getting into confrontations and standoffs with the government. In fact, no one in this country has ever brought about change that way - even the South lost when they tried to go that route. Exponentially more change and justice has been brought about through non-violence in this country than anything else.

no, they're not domestic terrorists.. that's just partisan rhetoric.... and please, don't link me to anything Crooksandliars has to say about anything...I don't do hyperpartisan propaganda from any side.

additionally, being armed is not synonymous with being violent....

I like the idea of non-violence bring about change ( depending on the change in question)... but i'm ok with violence as well, depending on the circumstance.... it's an effective strategy, as history has shown.
there's also the matter of the government having a monopoly on violence , which I find repugnant in the extreme ( that's one issue that i find pits me against the american left)
 
I don't feel anyone should be killed for their political beliefs, but....

THEY were the ones that brought their guns to the scene. INTENT might be construed by that.

Had they been dressed like hippies, wore beads, and played & sang protest songs around the campfire, I am certain things would have been different.

I feel BUNDY saw the success of his father's actions and all the support that generated, and was hoping for a repeat for the same.

Apples & oranges.

To quote Matthew Quigley, " This ain't Dodge City, and YOU (Bundy) ain't Wild Bill Hickock".

no need to dress like hippies.... they can dress in hoodies and burn down cities and things would most certainly be different.;)

the minute the Bundy clan decided to go off the reservation and take over the game reserve was the instant they corrupted their own "cause"..... they went full retard.
nobody deserves to die over it, but it's a foregone conclusion it would not end in their favor.
 
Where's the sturm und drang from the right?
Just goes to show how inept conservatives are at protesting and rebellion. If you want an armed rebellion, you need liberals.

Liberals are utterly worthless in an armed rebellion..... in the US, liberals are very much against guns and being armed... and very much in support of government having a monopoly on violence.

dumb people like the Oregon Bundy clan are equally as worthless....
 
no need to dress like hippies.... they can dress in hoodies and burn down cities and things would most certainly be different.;)

the minute the Bundy clan decided to go off the reservation and take over the game reserve was the instant they corrupted their own "cause"..... they went full retard.
nobody deserves to die over it, but it's a foregone conclusion it would not end in their favor.

You mean they were NOT given " room to destroy " like the rioters in Baltimore were given?

I call RACISM!
 
I am sure everyone has heard about Bundy being arrested and one of his followers killed by law enforcement...How do you feel about it.

I think if they were black it would have happened on Day One
 
I think if they were black it would have happened on Day One

why didn't it happen on day 1 in Ferguson or Baltimore.. or watts.. or LA?

if you're gonna have an opinion, at least have one based in fact... not racist delusions.
 
With NSA, the Patriot Act, our cops armed better than many countries Armies, drones, satellites, etc. we the people, even the armed 'we the people' hasn't a chance. The days of an armed revolt against the government is long gone. That ship sailed decades ago.

A survivalist who planned his attack for years in PA. ambushed and shot 2 cops. The government spent 1,000's of man hours and $millions chasing him down and capturing him. 1 guy? 10 guys? 1,000 armed guys. Doesn't matter anymore.

Did these guys deserve what they got? IDK. They showed up with guns and made threats, the government showed up with more and bigger guns. Nowadays that's a given.

If they wanted to die and/or get arrested, then they did ok. If they didn't, then they were stupid because the ending was inevitable.
 
Liberals are utterly worthless in an armed rebellion..... in the US, liberals are very much against guns and being armed... and very much in support of government having a monopoly on violence.

dumb people like the Oregon Bundy clan are equally as worthless....

Liberals fomented the rebellion that founded your country. Long time ago, granted, but far more recent than the never since the last conservative rebellion.
I suspect you don't know what being liberal means. Just because someone calls himself liberal doesn't make him one. And saying that being in support of 'government violence monopoly' (not sure what that means, but whatever) is a liberal thing doesn't make it so. Not for anyone but yourself, anyway.
 
no, they're not domestic terrorists.. that's just partisan rhetoric.... and please, don't link me to anything Crooksandliars has to say about anything...I don't do hyperpartisan propaganda from any side.

Crooks and liars merely linked to the video of one of the remaining terrorists advocating violence.
 
Liberals fomented the rebellion that founded your country. Long time ago, granted, but far more recent than the never since the last conservative rebellion.
I suspect you don't know what being liberal means. Just because someone calls himself liberal doesn't make him one. And saying that being in support of 'government violence monopoly' (not sure what that means, but whatever) is a liberal thing doesn't make it so. Not for anyone but yourself, anyway.



The very term "liberal" has become corrupted in the US; stolen often as not to disguise socialist ideals. It first came into use as a political brand as the Democrats tried to lure the youth/protest vote in the 60's. However, when you have been raised in liberal traditions native to Canada, it looks nothing like liberal.

It is not unique to America either. We see it a lot here, when NDP'ers can't get anywhere they become "liberals" a la Bob Rea. One of the best descriptions of "liberal" in a politial sense came from a prof I had who said "liberal is the application of fairness in law and governance."
 
Liberals fomented the rebellion that founded your country. Long time ago, granted, but far more recent than the never since the last conservative rebellion.
I suspect you don't know what being liberal means. Just because someone calls himself liberal doesn't make him one. And saying that being in support of 'government violence monopoly' (not sure what that means, but whatever) is a liberal thing doesn't make it so. Not for anyone but yourself, anyway.

we've been through this a few times before....what you call "liberal" is actually libertarian in the US..... you would probably be a libertarian in the US , as per our last couple of conversations.( though your support for massive government intrusion in the economy might disqualify you)
and yes, I know what liberal means, and I understand liberalism.

it should tell you something that the only political block in the US who talks trash about the founding fathers are... yup.. so-called liberals.

in any event, nothing I said was false.... you're just arguing because you get butthurt every time the word "liberal" comes up without the person blowing sunshine and unicorn dust up your ass.

Liberals today, in the US, are utterly worthless in any kind of armed confrontation.. whether that be rebellion, revolution, or just plain old warring nations.
 
Crooks and liars merely linked to the video of one of the remaining terrorists advocating violence.

I'll have to take you word for it... cuz I ain't clickin' ;)

... even still, it doesn't make them terrorists any more than some Ferguson rioters advocating violence.( Ferguson rioters weren't terrorists either.)
 
With NSA, the Patriot Act, our cops armed better than many countries Armies, drones, satellites, etc. we the people, even the armed 'we the people' hasn't a chance. The days of an armed revolt against the government is long gone. That ship sailed decades ago.

A survivalist who planned his attack for years in PA. ambushed and shot 2 cops. The government spent 1,000's of man hours and $millions chasing him down and capturing him. 1 guy? 10 guys? 1,000 armed guys. Doesn't matter anymore.

Did these guys deserve what they got? IDK. They showed up with guns and made threats, the government showed up with more and bigger guns. Nowadays that's a given.

If they wanted to die and/or get arrested, then they did ok. If they didn't, then they were stupid because the ending was inevitable.

a unified US citizenry will utterly destroy our military and police forces... but the keyword in that is " unified"

there are roughly 4 million firearms in the hands of the military and police ( which number about 3 million people)... there are 310 million firearms in the hands of civilians. ( over 100 million people)
even 5% of the armed population can easily take on the military and police , simultaneously.

a dozen pissed off militiamen don't stand a snowballs chance in hell, though
 
we've been through this a few times before....what you call "liberal" is actually libertarian in the US..... you would probably be a libertarian in the US , as per our last couple of conversations.( though your support for massive government intrusion in the economy might disqualify you)
and yes, I know what liberal means, and I understand liberalism.

it should tell you something that the only political block in the US who talks trash about the founding fathers are... yup.. so-called liberals.

in any event, nothing I said was false.... you're just arguing because you get butthurt every time the word "liberal" comes up without the person blowing sunshine and unicorn dust up your ass.

Liberals today, in the US, are utterly worthless in any kind of armed confrontation.. whether that be rebellion, revolution, or just plain old warring nations.

I don't care much what semantic contortions American conservatives indulge in to disparage the term, 'liberal'. What ends up happening is you-all just gather together every social and political evil, everything in your society that pisses you off, and call the pile 'liberalism'. And me calling you on your ignorance isn't 'butthurt', it's patient dedication to the idea that you can be taught.
Where does "your support for massive government intrusion in the economy" come from? Every time I've mentioned government it's been to disparage it's roll in the lives of citizens and hope that it keeps it's sticky fingers OFF the economy.
 
The very term "liberal" has become corrupted in the US; stolen often as not to disguise socialist ideals. It first came into use as a political brand as the Democrats tried to lure the youth/protest vote in the 60's. However, when you have been raised in liberal traditions native to Canada, it looks nothing like liberal.

It is not unique to America either. We see it a lot here, when NDP'ers can't get anywhere they become "liberals" a la Bob Rea. One of the best descriptions of "liberal" in a politial sense came from a prof I had who said "liberal is the application of fairness in law and governance."

I know. When did socialism become a liberal value? Sometime in my lifetime. Far as I know, conservatives advocate that politicians interfere in our lives, socialists advocate that politicians interfere in the economy and liberals hope politicians interfere with each other and leave us all alone.
'Application of fairness...', yeah, that'll do.
 
I know. When did socialism become a liberal value? Sometime in my lifetime. Far as I know, conservatives advocate that politicians interfere in our lives, socialists advocate that politicians interfere in the economy and liberals hope politicians interfere with each other and leave us all alone.
'Application of fairness...', yeah, that'll do.



For me, a native son returning to Canada's education system, while heavily into political science the phrase "the government has no business in the bedrooms of the country" was the "eureka!" moment. I had met then former NDP leader Tommy Douglas at a campus event and heard Bob Stanfield struggle through no known language....

But I liked the sound of that phrase and figured I had found what I was looking for through all the draft card burning, peace marches and acid infested rock concerts. I more than once faced Trudeau's notorious quick mind and sabre-like incisive insults, but for some reason he spared me. I have to say, looking back, I did NOT agree with a lot of what he did, but when all is said and done was the most impactive prime minister, certainly the most republic-minded prime ministers.

Now his son has some shoes to fill. Going to fun watching these guys, I have already notified by email the right honorable Harjit Sajjan of my disappointment and displeasure in the 'foot dragging" in stopping the bombing in Syria. :2razz:
 
a unified US citizenry will utterly destroy our military and police forces... but the keyword in that is " unified"

there are roughly 4 million firearms in the hands of the military and police ( which number about 3 million people)... there are 310 million firearms in the hands of civilians. ( over 100 million people)
even 5% of the armed population can easily take on the military and police , simultaneously.

a dozen pissed off militiamen don't stand a snowballs chance in hell, though


The fringe is called the fringe for a reason...they are usually just a hand full of pissed off losers.
 
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