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Is Islam a religion of peace?

Is Islam a religion of peace?


  • Total voters
    99
I said no Is there any religion that is one of peace...no!
Buddhism and Sikhism are pretty okay. Those Flying Spaghetti Monster worshippers like Stalin, Hitler and Mao on the other hand are responsible for millions of deaths.
 
Buddhism and Sikhism are pretty okay. Those Flying Spaghetti Monster worshippers like Stalin, Hitler and Mao on the other hand are responsible for millions of deaths.
Agreed.

I think of Buddhism as more of a philosophy than a religion but I know it is considered a religion. I am not anti religious per se. I can even attend religious events and find a lot of meaning in them. I also feel that some people are better behaved than they be without the fear that religion imposes upon them to behave in a better way than they would otherwise.

Religion brings out the best and the worst possible parts of human beings. We are weak and choose to revel in it. It's like whatever behaviour people can not rise above can be justified if they look deeply enough into their belief system instead of themselves. That part bugs me. It's like a free pass to never move forward.

Others go out and live the word. They are amazing human beings. They shine. Atheists and believers of every kind.
 
BTW, I refer to Indonesia because it's a THIRD-world nation, and as such SHOULD have a higher homicide rate than America...but theirs is much, much lower. If you like, I can also refer to FIRST-world Muslim nations, like Saudi Arabia, UAE, Qatar, Bahrain, and Jordan. All their societies are also much more peaceful than America's.

In other words, you might not like their laws...but what was the question? Was the question about "rights"? Or was it "Is Islam a religion of peace"? The numbers simply show that a STABLE Muslim nation is generally (though not always) more peaceful than a stable "Christian" nation.

But is Islam a religion of peace? The numbers from the stable Muslim nations show that it apparently is.

That is where this conversation ends. Making an absurd statement like Saudi Arabia has a more peaceful society than America is laughable.
 
I've read and thought about this for over a decade, and I would say the following:

A simple question, but there's not a "yes" or "no" answer, or at least not a meaningful one. Islam is not a monolithic entity anymore than Christianity is. I don't think that Christians would argue it would be fair to lump all of Christianity into one umbrella theology and ask a generalized question. Largely, this is because many of them believe widely disparate things, most of which cannot be solved by a simple inspection the words of the Bible. It's not difficult to guess then that Islam would be similarly complex, and it is.

To the question: It can be very violent, it can be very progressive. It depends heavily on the interpretation. The Qur'an itself is very violent, contains very unfortunate passages, anti-semitism (as well as comments supporting Jews, behold the contradiction of religion), and so forth, all of which is unfortunate given the prevalence of Islam today. So when commentators like Sam Harris claims that the Qur'an makes it very easy to be violent, there's nothing prima facie wrong with that, although to stop there (as Harris does) would be academically negligent, although typical. I'll pause for a second and note that there's also very good verses in the Qur'an, which should be compared to Christianity (or at least its cultures), such as making sure that the poor are kept fed and upholding the principles that all races are equal (In fact, it's this issue that got Malcolm X to back off of black nationalism and start believing in racial equality and diversity, so the positive import of these verses has influenced the West positively, even if negligibly).

So the real question is "Which interpretation is being used, and why?" Like all ideologies, a huge portion of them are driven by emotional reasoning, and that informs the interpretation. Well, that's fairly predictable in terms of results. People in oppressed communities tend to react violently and use religion, politics, etc, as a guise for their violent outbursts. Sometimes they act out what's literally in the texts (and then the texts must take some blame), but a lot of times it's only tangential. We did this against the USSR, which we deemed "godless" and so we countered with "Christian values" and "In God We Trust", although religion had very little, if anything, to do with the Cold War. People in well-established countries with comfort? They tend not to be so pissed off, and they tend not to conduct nearly as much violence. There's notable exceptions, such as Saudi Arabia. For example, Osama bin Laden lived a rather comfortable existence as the son of an oil baron, was Western educated, and so forth, but nevertheless he was a "true believer" in the most dangerous sense, just like the Christian Robert Dear or the Muslim SB shooters (Though the chief difference being that bin Laden had the money to back entire militias and networks, and he did so at the cost of millions of lives).

So literalists exist, but even then only a small number of them are militant reactionaries. Most Muslims, literalists or otherwise, don't believe in a violent version is Islam and virtually every Muslim does not believe in conducting violence in the name of Islam (That's an empirical claim, it can be verified and has been). Most Muslims are against the US not for simple religious reasons, but comparing to terrorist statements (e.g. take bin Laden's so-called justification for 9/11), you'll find that the predominant concern and driver of terrorism in and related to Islamic states is Western imperialism. Yes, it's draped in religiously language, yes the texts are wonderful for driving small groups of fringe lunatics, and so forth, but most of the driving factor is terrestrial geopolitical (Western imperialist) concerns. And that should come as no surprise; Wahhabi/Salafi Islam has been around for 300 years, but only gained followers after the extensive Western and Soviet imperialism of the 1950's and on wards. Again, the results are fairly predictable (cf. Irish Republican Army, which also used religion as a guise for its terrestrial grievances, although to a lesser degree than, say, Hamas or ISIS).
 
A quick additional comment, while I'm thinking about this:

There's also tons of human rights violations committed because of a literal interpretation of the Qur'an, which goes beyond terrorism --specific acts of terrorism, oppression of women in Saudi Arabia (A top ally of the US), oppression of religious minorities, a total disregard for free speech/religion including lashing and killing atheists and Christians for protests or conversions, murdering gays, and so forth. All of which is abhorrent, most of it is derived from the Qur'an (and related religious laws), and the UN should work actively against these human rights violations.

The flip side is that America stopped jailing gays in all 50 states only 12 years ago, there's been 5,000 abortion clinic bombings since the mid-70's, judicial flogging was still performed up until 1952, it was only a century ago that women got the right to vote, it was only in the last century that we fined Scopes $1,400 (in 2015 dollars) for teaching evolution because it was anti-Christian, only 50 years ago did the US finally decide to stop sheriffs and locals in the South from performing lynchings and provide equal status for blacks on paper. So, historically speaking, the West itself is still a recent convert to secularism, democracy for all, tolerance, and pluralism, and I hardly think we should feel too self-congratulatory. It took a long time for modern Liberalism to sink in, and to this day there's no small number of Westerners actively fighting the current progress and to undermine the past progress. We should be more sympathetic to the long haul and the serious cultural battles that the Middle-East, North-Africa, and South Asia is currently engaged in and will continue to be engaged in for some time. And simply denouncing Islam from 7,000 miles away as a Western does precious little to help this effort.
 
...

To the question: It can be very violent, it can be very progressive. It depends heavily on the interpretation. The Qur'an itself is very violent, contains very unfortunate passages, anti-semitism (as well as comments supporting Jews, behold the contradiction of religion), and so forth, all of which is unfortunate given the prevalence of Islam today. So when commentators like Sam Harris claims that the Qur'an makes it very easy to be violent, there's nothing prima facie wrong with that, although to stop there (as Harris does) would be academically negligent, although typical. .."

Socialist Tripe
Pt1:
Why I Am Not A Muslim
(original link expired, this is secondary posting)

Ah, but you are confusing Islam with Islamic fundamentalism. The Real Islam has nothing to do with violence,” Apologists of Islam argue.

There may be moderate Muslims, but Islam itself is not moderate. There is no difference between Islam and Islamic fundamentalism: at most there is a difference of degree but not of kind. All the tenets of Islamic fundamentalism are derived from the Qur’an, the Sunna, and the Hadith – Islamic fundamentalism is a totalitarian construct derived by Muslim jurists from the fundamental and defining texts of Islam. The fundamentalists, with greater logic and coherence than so-called moderate or liberal Muslims, have made Islam the basis of a radical utopian ideology that aims to replace capitalism and democracy as the reigning world system. Islamism accounts for the anti-American hatred to be found in places far from the Arab-Israeli conflict, like Nigeria and Afghanistan, demonstrating that the Middle East conflict cannot legitimately be used to explain this phenomenon called Islamism. A Palestinian involved in the WTC bombings would be seen as a martyr to the Palestinian cause, but even more as a martyr to Islam.

“Ah, but Islamic fundamentalism is like any other kind of fundamentalism, one must not demonise it. It is the result of political, social grievances. It must be explained in terms of economics and not religion,” continue the Apologists of Islam.

There are enormous differences between Islamic fundamentalism and any other kind of modern fundamentalism. It is true that Hindu, Jewish, and Christian fundamentalists have been responsible for acts of violence, but these have been confined to particular countries and regions. Islamic fundamentalism has global aspirations: the submission of the entire world to the all-embracing Shari’a, Islamic Law, a fascist system of dictates designed to control every single act of all individuals. Nor do Hindus or Jews seek to convert the world to their religion. Christians do indulge in proselytism but no longer use acts of violence or international terrorism to achieve their aims.
Only Islam treats non-believers as inferior beings who are expendable in the drive to world hegemony. Islam justifies any means to achieve the end of establishing an Islamic world.

Islamic fundamentalists recruit among Muslim populations, they appeal to Islamic religious symbols, and they motivate their recruits with Islamic doctrine derived from the Qur’an. Economic poverty alone cannot explain the phenomenon of Islamism. Poverty in Brazil or Mexico has not resulted in Christian fundamentalist acts of international terror. Islamists are against what they see as western materialism itself[/u]. Their choice is clear: Islam or jahiliyya. The latter term is redefined to mean modern-style jahiliyya of modern, democratic, industrialised societies of Europe and America, where man is under the dominion of man rather than Allah. They totally reject the values of the West, which they feel are poisoning Islamic culture. So, it is not just a question of economics, but of an entirely different worldview, which they wish to impose on the whole world. Sayyid Qutb, the very influential Egyptian Muslim thinker, said that “dominion should be reverted to Allah alone, namely to Islam, that holistic system He conferred upon men. An all-out offensive, a jihad, should be waged against modernity so that this moral rearmament could take place. The ultimate objective is to re-establish the Kingdom of Allah upon earth...”​
 
Socialist Tripe: Pt. 2

FieldTheorist said:
Yes, it's draped in religiously language, yes the texts are wonderful for driving small groups of fringe lunatics, and so forth, but most of the driving factor is terrestrial geopolitical (Western imperialist) concerns. And that should come as no surprise; Wahhabi/Salafi Islam has been around for 300 years, but only gained followers after the extensive Western and Soviet imperialism of the 1950's and on wards. Again, the results are fairly predictable (cf. Irish Republican Army, which also used religion as a guise for its terrestrial grievances, although to a lesser degree than, say, Hamas or ISIS).
The Muslim Brotherhood was founded in 1928.

The IRA killed 1800 over 35 years.
1800 people (or More) are killed every Month in the NAME of Islam.

the religionofpeace.com
Islam: The Politically Incorrect Truth

TheReligionofPeace - About the List of Islamic Terror Attacks

This list of terrorist attacks committed by Muslims since 9/11/01 (a rate of about 5 a day) is incomplete because not all such attacks are picked up by international news sources, even those resulting in multiple loss of life.

These are Not incidents of ordinary crime involving nominal Muslims killing for money or vendetta. We Only include incidents of deadly violence that are reasonably determined to have been committed out of Religious Duty - as interpreted by the Perpetrator. Islam needs to be a motive, but it need not be the only factor."..."

The List
Last 30 Days Only
Islam: The Politically Incorrect Truth
[......]
[......]

Last Few days Only (probably incomplete)
2015.12.04 (Sanaa, Yemen) - Nine Shiites are beheaded by the Islamic State.
2015.12.03 (Mogadishu, Somalia) - A female journalist is blown apart by an al-Shabaab car bomb.
2015.12.02 (Ghouta, Syria) - Two Assyrian women are disassembled by a Sunni mortar blast.
2015.12.02 (San Bernardino, CA, USA) - A 'very religious' Muslim shoots up a Christmas party with his wife, leaving fourteen dead.
2015.12.02 (Waza, Cameroon) - Two female suicide bombers slaughter six people.
2015.12.02 (Raqqa, Syria) - Two gay men are thrown from a rooftop by a Sharia court.

Jihad Report
November, 2015

Jihad Attacks: 169
Countries: 30

*Allah Akbars*: 34
Dead Bodies: 1455
Critically Injured:1706
*Suicide Attacks​

Beside a 'low' month for Islam, one will note 34 Suicide bombings. More than one a day.
Why is that?
Apologists will tell you 'Suicide is forbidden' (from depression), BUT they don't tell you "Martyrdom is Glorious," and the only guaranteed and instant ticket to heaven for you and yours.
 
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Socialist Tripe and Moral Equivalencer pt 3.

A quick additional comment, while I'm thinking about this:

There's also tons of human rights violations committed because of a literal interpretation of the Qur'an, which goes beyond terrorism --specific acts of terrorism, oppression of women in Saudi Arabia (A top ally of the US), oppression of religious minorities, a total disregard for free speech/religion including lashing and killing atheists and Christians for protests or conversions, murdering gays, and so forth. All of which is abhorrent, most of it is derived from the Qur'an (and related religious laws), and the UN should work actively against these human rights violations....
They All don't believe what ISIS does, but the views are nonetheless, pretty Disturbing.
Many more questions/categories can be found at the Pew Link below.

What's an "extremist"?
Only a tiny fraction are "terrorists", But significant minorities to healthy Majorities of Muslims hold views that would make what YOU would call Christian 'extremists'/literalists/fundmentalists look like the relative Choir boys they are.

I call wanting to Stone Adulterers and Kill Apostates "extremist", You?

Chapter 1: Beliefs About Sharia | Pew Research Center's Religion & Public Life Project

gsi2-chp1-3.png


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gsi2-chp1-8.png


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gsi2-chp1-9.png
[/QUOTE]
 
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Socialist Moral Equivalence and Tripe, PT 4.
...
The flip side is that America stopped jailing gays in all 50 states only 12 years ago, there's been 5,000 Abortion Clinic Bombings since the mid-70's...
Outrageous BS.
LINK?
Here's mine: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-abortion_violence
I count Only a few dozen incidences of Violence of all types.

Islam OTOH:

re: November 2014
BBC News - Jihadism: Tracking a month of deadly attacks
10 December 2014

Jihadism: Tracking a month of deadly attacks
Jihadist attacks killed more than 5,000 people in just One month, an investigation by the BBC World Service and King's College London has found.
[.........]
The data gathered by the BBC found that 5,042 people were killed in 664 Jihadist attacks across 14 Countries - a daily average of 168 deaths, or 7 Every Hour.
[......]


Many/More People die virtually EVERY single DAY, even in some Single HOURS, than the Total from 30 YEARS of those nasty "Abortion clinic bombings" Moral equivocators like to invoke.

That's right.
You can add up ALL The IRA Violence of 35 years..
and ALL the abortion clinic Bombings of 35 years, and you MIGHT get 1 Month of Killing in the NAME of Islam.. if it's a slow month for Islam that is.
 
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Socialist Tripe
Pt1:

You more or less willfully ignore the large number of condemnations of Qur'an/Islam, which were thorough and repeated. Apparently, they just were abrasive enough for you. You fail to think about why violence was committed and instead in your zealotry to call me an "Islamic apologist" you radically misconstrue the entire purpose of bringing up the IRA (which was brought up alongside "In God We Trust" platitudes of the 1950's US, which went wholly ignored by you, in addition to its purpose being lost on you). You fail to acknowledge that the vast majority of Muslims --despite unfortunate beliefs-- are not radical Islamists hell bent on destroying the West and actively engaged in a militant campaign to control the world. You ignore the whole tangential topic of geopolitics because, and I quote, "It's Islamic apologism" --that's it, there was no actual reason specified. I guess once we think something might be "Islamic apologism" we can shut our brains down and disregard it because we feel like it shouldn't matter. Amusingly, the closest you came to an attempt to explain why geopolitics shouldn't matter is by bringing up that the Muslim Brotherhood predates American/Soviet imperialism, which as demonstrated is an example that blows up in your face.

So by-and-large, you just didn't engage with anything that was brought up in my first two posts.


mbig said:
Why I Am Not A Muslim
(original link expired, this is secondary posting)

Ah, but you are confusing Islam with Islamic fundamentalism. The Real Islam has nothing to do with violence,” Apologists of Islam argue.


Excellent, right off the bat I'm labeled as an apologist of Islam. Because apparently saying,

There's also tons of human rights violations committed because of a literal interpretation of the Qur'an, which goes beyond terrorism --specific acts of terrorism, oppression of women in Saudi Arabia (A top ally of the US), oppression of religious minorities, a total disregard for free speech/religion including lashing and killing atheists and Christians for protests or conversions, murdering gays, and so forth. All of which is abhorrent, most of it is derived from the Qur'an (and related religious laws), and the UN should work actively against these human rights violations.​

is simply not strident enough condemnation, and is tantamount to saying "Real Islam has nothing to do with violence." I suspect, however, that my real offense is in saying that his holiness Sam Harris (s.a.a.w.) hasn't been complete in his analysis of Islam. A most terrible sin, and perhaps in a less Islamist-apologetic society, I could be lashed for intellectual insubordination.

mbig said:
There may be moderate Muslims, but Islam itself is not moderate. There is no difference between Islam and Islamic fundamentalism: at most there is a difference of degree but not of kind. All the tenets of Islamic fundamentalism are derived from the Qur’an, the Sunna, and the Hadith – Islamic fundamentalism is a totalitarian construct derived by Muslim jurists from the fundamental and defining texts of Islam.

Well, for starters there's many different, mutually exclusive Hadith, Sunnah, and fiqh, so the severity to how much damage is done to civil liberties depends on which one is enacted. And to call them all the same thing "Islamic fundamentalism" is fine, but you should note that you're dealing with disparate and distinct religious traditions, and the outcomes of each can lead to different results. Taking very moderate, reform, or liberal traditions of Islam, which are practiced largely, and there's zero damage done to civil liberties because they believe in secular governments.

And in any case, the text is what it is, I'm against the Qur'an just like I'm against the Bible, Talmud, etc, as books for ethical and political instruction. They're the exact product of outdated bronze-age thinking that you would expect from books written then.​
 
“Ah, but Islamic fundamentalism is like any other kind of fundamentalism, one must not demonise it. It is the result of political, social grievances. It must be explained in terms of economics and not religion,” continue the Apologists of Islam. [...]

If you think this addresses what I said or rebuts it in any manner, you probably need to re-read what was written. Yes, Islamic fundamentalism is just like all forms of fundamentalism: And it should be demonized accordingly. Read the quote I gave pf myself in the above post.

It's a fact that terrorism by Muslims is real. It's a fact that terrorism by Muslims is in many parts inspired by religion, Osama bin Laden is a perfect example that I gave of a true believer where his terrorism is essentially (though not entirely) driven by religion. But it's also a fact that geopolitics and terrestrial grievances play the most important role. That's not excusing Islam for it's role. It's saying that there's other factors, and several of those factors are something that citizens of Western countries might be to able to do something about. The widespread existence of Islam in other countries? There's very little direct good that we can do there.


mbig said:
Economic poverty alone cannot explain the phenomenon of Islamism. Poverty in Brazil or Mexico has not resulted in Christian fundamentalist acts of international terror.

1.) Violence in the name of Christian fundamentalism? No, but there have been intensively violent pro-capitalist cues followed by socialist cues, and round and round again. In the case of Latin America, a lot of the fighting is done in the name of socialism or democracy (Although the results are ambiguous as to either). In that sense, though the name isn't in Christianity, the effects of poverty and American imperialism are very real and has been very violent.

The Muslim Brotherhood was founded in 1928.

"The Muslim Brotherhood was founded in 1928 by Hassan al-Banna, along with six workers of the Suez Canal Company [...] to promote implementing traditional, religious, Islamic sharia law into government and a social regression based on an Islamic ethos of altruism and civic duty, in opposition to what he saw as political and social injustice and to British imperial rule. The organisation initially focused on educational and charitable work, but quickly grew to become a major political force as well, by championing the cause of disenfranchised classes, playing a prominent role in the Egyptian nationalist movement, and promoting a conception of Islam that attempted to restore broken links between tradition and modernity."

(Notice how I didn't say that these groups were "good," "just," or "noble." I said the results of imperialism is "predictable.")

mbig said:
The IRA killed 1800 over 35 years.
1800 people (or More) are killed every Month in the NAME of Islam.

Yes. Northern Ireland had a population of 1.4 to 1.8 million people during the IRA's terrorism/freedom fighting/pick your name. There are 1.3 billion Muslims. So Muslims are doing a little over three times the number of deaths per capita.

But what's your point? I'm not talking body count here, I'm talking about intentions and how people use religion and politics to justify violent behavior, both in how religion is the main culprit and when it isn't --but my main point there was that it's not an either/or.

They All don't believe what ISIS does, but the views are nonetheless, pretty Disturbing.

None of this was ever in contention, issues such as these were already mentioned by myself, and so I don't see the point of this post. It does nothing but highlight my point that the Muslim world has a long battle ahead of itself if it wants to attain any serious elements of Liberal freedoms.

Outrageous BS.
LINK?
Here's mine: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-abortion_violence
I count Only a few dozen incidences of Violence of all types.

You're correct that I misspoke when I said "bombings," because I meant "all violence." Otherwise, my number was, if anything, a severe underestimate: The actual number sits closer to 6,948.
 
You more or less willfully ignore the large number of condemnations of Qur'an/Islam, which were thorough and repeated. Apparently, they just were abrasive enough for you. You fail to think about why violence was committed
False, I always specify crimes committed only in the NAME of Islam.
One of my links above was even more elaborate, and could NOT be more specific. (thereligionofpeace.com)
Another, BBC, (usually at least PC) correctly called designated the motivation it "Jihadist" violence.


Field Theorist said:
and instead in your zealotry to call me an "Islamic apologist" you radically misconstrue the entire purpose of bringing up the IRA ..
Au Contrare, I've seen it literally 1000 Times.
And you made a whole second Post of Moral equivalence about the West and it's Backwardness.
A WHOLE post to say we're just as bad.
IAC, a post I made just two days ago!
http://www.debatepolitics.com/relig...cared-disparage-muslims-9.html#post1065328626
NEVER Fails.

Actually, I've probably been the biggest critic of Islam on this board for 6.5 Years.
Tho I regularly confront YECers and other Literal creationists, I make Way more posts on the Inordinately Violent and Intolerant Islam.

But what you say has merit. Though most atheists aren't "scared" of Islam, they are in great Majority Liberal Apologists for it, and the biggest "moral equivalence"/You-too-er contingent on the board.
You can't start an Islam critique or News item without some Dickhead bringing up the Crusades or the 'Abortion clinic Bombings'. The latter of which constitutes about .001% of the Daily carnage/Jihad in the NAME of Islam.

Despite the claim of reason, the vast Majority of my fellow atheists are NOT objective about the relative danger and actual damage done by various religions.
And it is No contest.
Islam is the biggest disaster in a Landslide. Islam is Inordinately Intolerant and Violent, and is by far is a worse threat to Atheists ostensible most important cause: the danger of Literalism/Lack of secularity.
Islam is not only more literal, but literal to a book that is Less compatible with Western ideals including.... the right to declare your own Atheism/'Apostasy.'
Bingo!
and here WE are again.


FieldTheorist said:
Well, for starters there's many different, mutually exclusive Hadith, Sunnah, and fiqh, so the severity to how much damage is done to civil liberties depends on which one is enacted. And to call them all the same thing "Islamic fundamentalism" is fine, but you should note that you're dealing with disparate and distinct religious traditions, and the outcomes of each can lead to different results. Taking very moderate, reform, or liberal traditions of Islam, which are practiced largely, and there's zero damage done to civil liberties because they believe in secular governments. And in any case, the text is what it is, I'm against the Qur'an just like I'm against the Bible, Talmud, etc, as books for ethical and political instruction. They're the exact product of outdated bronze-age thinking that you would expect from books written then.
Another Moral Equivalence/Equivocating piece of Apologism.
See my quoted post just above for the Difference between the books and adherents.
 
If you think this addresses what I said or rebuts it in any manner, you probably need to re-read what was written. Yes, Islamic fundamentalism is just like ALL forms of fundamentalism: And it should be demonized accordingly. Read the quote I gave pf myself in the above post.
More Incredibly wrong-headed Moral Equivalence and Apologism, even as you deny it.
NO, Islamic Fundamentalism is Much Worse.
What would happen to, ie, Adulterers and Apostates in PatRobertsonLand? Counseling?

I'll give it to you in One sentence.
A Christian Fundamentalist is a Missionary, a Muslim Fundamentalist Kills him.


Fieldtheorist said:
1.) Violence in the name of Christian fundamentalism? No, but...
[self-impeaching] SPLAT!


FieldTheorist said:
Yes. Northern Ireland had a population of 1.4 to 1.8 million people during the IRA's terrorism/freedom fighting/pick your name. There are 1.3 billion Muslims. So Muslims are doing a little over three times the number of deaths per capita.But what's your point? I'm not talking body count here, I'm talking about intentions and how people use religion and politics to justify violent behavior, both in how religion is the main culprit and when it isn't --but my main point there was that it's not an either/or.
"My point" is that I COULD and did Use the whole world, while you were limited to a Tiny Hot spot, and now try to Universalize/per-capita it, but you CANNOT do so fairly.
Oh that was cute!, but Not near smart enough when debating me.. and Yet MORE Moral Equivalence/APOLOGISM.


FieldTheorist said:
You're correct that I misspoke when I said "bombings," because I meant "all violence." Otherwise, my number was, if anything, a severe underestimate: The actual number sits closer to 6,948.
I think I could get into the Millions of incidents for Islam with all the petty crap on that page.
Bottom Line?
8 Murders in 37 Years, only 3 in the last 20.
what is that..
About 1 Average HOUR for Islam?

Your Grotesque Apologism got even worse.
 
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Simple question, what do you believe?

only for believers who want it to be

but theirs way to many who only want peace if every ones believes and acts like they do
 
Depends what you want to catch. When I'm trolling, I use hootchies if it's sockeye running, herring strips for springs or coho.
Everyone knows you're an expert.
 
Islam is just like any other religion, it completely depends on an individual's interpretation of it.
 
Simple question, what do you believe?

"I don't know" that *any* religion is in itself inherently a religion of peace. There are plenty of people who are religious, Jewish or Christian or Muslim, who are all about peace. But there are plenty of others who are about anything but peace.

Our problem for this discussion is looking at the tone of the core text, the tone of the leadership or "religious authority," and history. On those three standards it is elementary to conclude none of the big three faiths are about peace.
 
I chose "I don't know". I really don't know. I think it has some violent overtones and characteristics (stoning women who are adulterers, that sort of thing), and I think it has some gentle and kind overtones. To me it's a mystery.
 
I chose "I don't know". I really don't know. I think it has some violent overtones and characteristics (stoning women who are adulterers, that sort of thing), and I think it has some gentle and kind overtones. To me it's a mystery.
You've described every religion.
 
what a loaded question, what happens if i say yes? Is this supposed to mean that either Christianity is the "religion of peace" or Islam is, but it can't be both?

I know the word "islam" roughly translates to "the way of peace" if thats what your asking? but im guessing thats not what your asking at all
 
I was already aware of such things. The position of the Dalai Lama on homosexuality is also questionable for example. I don't see them using any scripture or teachings of Buddha to justify those things in articles on the subject. It's possible they have such scripture, I'm just not aware of it.
 
I very rarely watch videos - it's a security thing, and one learns much more slowly from video anyway. I've only watched one on DP so far, and that was only because it involved Monty Python. So you're wasting your time with videos. Send me articles instead.

This isn't about you. Seek the truth instead of clinging to your denial of the facts about Islam.
 
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