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If you knew a pedophile?

What would you do if you discovered a celibate pedophile?

  • Nothing

    Votes: 13 28.3%

  • Call the cops

    Votes: 7 15.2%

  • Inform neighbors with kids

    Votes: 17 37.0%

  • Blackmail or warn him

    Votes: 1 2.2%

  • Inform his employer, spouse, friends etc

    Votes: 5 10.9%

  • Cut off communication

    Votes: 14 30.4%

  • Keep your own kids away

    Votes: 27 58.7%

  • Urge psychological help

    Votes: 15 32.6%
  • Total voters
    46
If someone I knew confided in me that they had those feelings but never acted on them I would urge them to seek psychiatric help. I also wouldn't tempt them by bringing my own kids around. I wouldn't report them or out them as long as they had made the conscientious decision to never be alone with a child. So if there were no children in the house and they worked at a bank or something then I am not going to say anything. If they coach a little league team and teach children's Bible school or something then it isn't a secret I can ethically keep.
 
BrewerBob said:
If someone I knew confided in me that they had those feelings but never acted on them I would urge them to seek psychiatric help. I also wouldn't tempt them by bringing my own kids around. I wouldn't report them or out them as long as they had made the conscientious decision to never be alone with a child. So if there were no children in the house and they worked at a bank or something then I am not going to say anything. If they coach a little league team and teach children's Bible school or something then it isn't a secret I can ethically keep.
Click to expand...

That's just it. If they confided in you that they had feelings for kids--much like Subway Boy did to that lady at the Jr High School Assembly--then you would be putting kids at risk by being quiet because you cannot possibly know if he is or is not around kids.

How many of your neighbors do you know well enough to be aware of their entire schedule and hobbies? There are a thousand opportunities for some pedo to be around kids. You cannot possibly know that he is not involved in any of them. Therefore, you have to report the dude--let the authorities sort it out.
 
Has anybody in the forum ever heard of DUE PROCESS OF LAW? It's in the Constitution.

Pedophiles are seriously wired wrong. They commit one of the worse crimes against humanity - ever. No doubt about it.

So how does one go about knowing of a pedophile is celibate? And if there has been no crime committed...then ???????????

Sorry, but I'm not connecting to the purpose of this thread.
 
Removable Mind said:
Has anybody in the forum ever heard of DUE PROCESS OF LAW? It's in the Constitution.

Pedophiles are seriously wired wrong. They commit one of the worse crimes against humanity - ever. No doubt about it.

So how does one go about knowing of a pedophile is celibate? And if there has been no crime committed...then ???????????

Sorry, but I'm not connecting to the purpose of this thread.
Click to expand...

It seems to me we are hinting at a bigger picture item here.

I am as unclear as you are as to how someone would discover a "celibate pedophile" outside of some sort of therapy, or counseling, or being confided in. And brings me to a critical point that has been discussed and debated in another context. How to deal with a pedophile.

The American Psychiatric Association (APA) gets a fair amount of harsh criticism for how it characterizes pedophilia, and hebephilia for that matter, in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM.) But from my chair we are perhaps onto something when it comes to the safety of children. Due Process of Law has more to do with handling someone who has been accused of a crime in terms of punishment for that crime, as a sister condition Due Process of Law also is about handling someone who presents a danger to themselves or someone else. Proper characterization of the disorder is by no means acceptance, and that might handle Due Process of Law in getting someone into treatment before a crime occurs.

It seems to me that it makes sense to have a condition where someone who is discovered to be a "celibate pedophile" can be put into some degree of treatment to handle the underline reasons for that disorder, in an effort to prevent that person from acting out from that disorder. Consider that a goal of the treatment. The step before becoming a criminal is then key, because of the strong reason to suspect that this sort of condition inherently puts children in danger.

We do not have room in the Constitution to run around locking up (or "getting rid of") everyone out there with this disorder in advance of a crime. It stands to reason that getting someone into treatment gives us the most opportunity to prevent a child being harmed in the first place. Study suggests that those with this sort of disorder, of which there are many along these lines, usually have something in their background in being abused themselves in some regard.

Treat the cause at the source, and we might make headway in handling what puts children at risk.
 
BrewerBob said:
A pedophile is someone who is sexually attracted to pre-pubescent children. It is the attraction that makes them pedophiles. It doesn't necessarily mean they have ever acted, or ever will act, on that attraction. Once they act on it then they are a pedophile AND a child molester.
Click to expand...

Is it pre pubescant or legal minors?

You mean to tell me if some 40 year old hunkers down on a 15 year old they may not be a pedophile?
 
Luftwaffe said:
Is it pre pubescant or legal minors?

You mean to tell me if some 40 year old hunkers down on a 15 year old they may not be a pedophile?
Click to expand...

Prepubescent.

A 40 year old having sex with a 15 year old may very well be immoral and illegal, but it is not pedophilia. Pedophilia is a psychiatric disorder with a specific definition.
 
BrewerBob said:
Prepubescent.

A 40 year old having sex with a 15 year old may very well be immoral and illegal, but it is not pedophilia. Pedophilia is a psychiatric disorder with a specific definition.
Click to expand...

I have been surprised to say the least.

But puberty can occur at different times for different girls... So pedophilia varies depending on the girl and the situation?
 
I don't believe in "thought crimes", and presuming nothing has happened to this point I'm not sure I'd even classify the person as a pedophile.

Having said that, I'd still be cautious and watchful.
 
OrphanSlug said:
It seems to me we are hinting at a bigger picture item here.

I am as unclear as you are as to how someone would discover a "celibate pedophile" outside of some sort of therapy, or counseling, or being confided in. And brings me to a critical point that has been discussed and debated in another context. How to deal with a pedophile.

The American Psychiatric Association (APA) gets a fair amount of harsh criticism for how it characterizes pedophilia, and hebephilia for that matter, in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM.) But from my chair we are perhaps onto something when it comes to the safety of children. Due Process of Law has more to do with handling someone who has been accused of a crime in terms of punishment for that crime, as a sister condition Due Process of Law also is about handling someone who presents a danger to themselves or someone else. Proper characterization of the disorder is by no means acceptance, and that might handle Due Process of Law in getting someone into treatment before a crime occurs.

It seems to me that it makes sense to have a condition where someone who is discovered to be a "celibate pedophile" can be put into some degree of treatment to handle the underline reasons for that disorder, in an effort to prevent that person from acting out from that disorder. Consider that a goal of the treatment. The step before becoming a criminal is then key, because of the strong reason to suspect that this sort of condition inherently puts children in danger.

We do not have room in the Constitution to run around locking up (or "getting rid of") everyone out there with this disorder in advance of a crime. It stands to reason that getting someone into treatment gives us the most opportunity to prevent a child being harmed in the first place. Study suggests that those with this sort of disorder, of which there are many along these lines, usually have something in their background in being abused themselves in some regard.

Treat the cause at the source, and we might make headway in handling what puts children at risk.
Click to expand...

If I'm scratching my arm and ask you why I'm doing that. You can reply a couple of ways. One is: "Dunno?" The other could be: "Because it itches?"

And my reply to you will be: "Because I'm the only one who knows that it itches." We can't presume anything about another person's sexual conduct. Even (or especially) on "self-report" from a person already established to be a pervert of the worst magnitude.

Let's not forget the possibility that sexual orientation is hardwired. In other words, there is no treatment for how we're wired regarding who we're sexually attracted to.

So far there's no real success stories for treating pedophiles. I suggest that it's not possible, but that's MY OPINION.
 
Luftwaffe said:
Is it pre pubescant or legal minors?

You mean to tell me if some 40 year old hunkers down on a 15 year old they may not be a pedophile?
Click to expand...

There is a debate going on with terms.

According to the APA (and listed as such in the DSM) a pedophile is a disorder where a person has a sustained sexual attraction to prepubescent children. Generally that means ages 13 and under. But it should be noted that the actual age is not the determining factor, what becomes the definition of the disorder is the status of the child not entering puberty.

Which is more or less why they came up with another term for a similar disorder. Hebephilia is then a similar but a different disorder where a person has a sustained sexual attraction to "adolescents." Somewhere in that 13-14 range and up, where again the defining factor is puberty has been at least started. Not a child in the prepubescent sense, but also not considered a "consenting adult." And, we should also note there is not consensus even at the State level on what is and is not a consenting adult (anywhere from 16 to 18 when doing a quick search on the matter.)

The reason for discerning between the two is understanding the psychological factors of attraction and goals. Arguably we are talking about the difference of reproductive ability, and while icky of a subject to think and talk about it becomes a factor in treatment on handling of these disorders.

For the purposes of law there may not be that much difference in the criminality of being a pedophile or hebephile who has acted on these disorders. And in the context of this discussion on what to do if you have figured out is someone is a "celibate pedophile" or "celibate hebephile" there may not be much difference either. But in treatment, there might be a difference. You follow?
 
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Removable Mind said:
If I'm scratching my arm and ask you why I'm doing that. You can reply a couple of ways. One is: "Dunno?" The other could be: "Because it itches?"

And my reply to you will be: "Because I'm the only one who knows that it itches." We can't presume anything about another person's sexual conduct. Even (or especially) on "self-report" from a person already established to be a pervert of the worst magnitude.

Let's not forget the possibility that sexual orientation is hardwired. In other words, there is no treatment for how we're wired regarding who we're sexually attracted to.

So far there's no real success stories for treating pedophiles. I suggest that it's not possible, but that's MY OPINION.
Click to expand...

If it is hardwired and there is no possible treatment, we still have an issue to resolve on Due Process of Law for someone who is discovered to be a "celibate pedophile." The argument is then diminished to Due Process of Law being applied by an argued inherent danger to the public as a means to remove from society someone who has not broken any laws. That could be problematic but seems to be the only remedy to a non-treatable condition where children are in danger from some individual with such a disorder.
 
BrewerBob said:
A pedophile is someone who is sexually attracted to pre-pubescent children. It is the attraction that makes them pedophiles. It doesn't necessarily mean they have ever acted, or ever will act, on that attraction. Once they act on it then they are a pedophile AND a child molester.
Click to expand...

Well yes I know that, but seriously how many pedophiles are not child molesters? Pedophilia is considered to be mental disorder, it is on the short list of paraphilias.

The vast majority of sexual assault of a child, is from someone they know. Put a pedophile in that situation and most likely to some degree they will act on it. And considering that there is evidence of brain dysfunction, you cannot guarantee that pedophiles wont commit a sexual crime against a child. Every pedophile is a danger to a child.

"Structural brain abnormalities in the frontostriatal systemand cerebellum in pedophilia

Even though previous neuro psychological studies and clinical case reports have suggested an association between pedophilia and frontocortical dysfunction, our knowledge about the neuro biological mechanisms underlying pedophilia is still fragmentary. Specifically,the brain morphology of such disorders has not yet been investigated using MR imaging techniques.Whole brain structural T1-weighted MR images from 18 pedophile patients (9 attracted to males, 9 attracted to females) and 24 healthy age-matched control subjects (12 hetero- and 12 homosexual) from a comparable socioeconomic stratum were processed by using optimized automated voxel-based morphometry within multiple linear regression analyses.Compared to the homosexual and heterosexual control subjects, pedophiles showed decreased gray matter volume in the ventral stri-atum (also extending into the nucl. accumbens), the orbitofrontal cortex and the cerebellum.These observations further indicate an association between frontostriatal morphometric abnormalities and pedophilia. In this respect these findings may support the hypothesis that there is a shared etiopathological mechanism in all obsessive–compulsive spectrum disorders."

Structural brain abnormalities in the frontostriatal system and cerebellum in pedophilia. J Psychiatr Res (PDF Download Available)
 
OrphanSlug said:
If it is hardwired and there is no possible treatment, we still have an issue to resolve on Due Process of Law for someone who is discovered to be a "celibate pedophile." The argument is then diminished to Due Process of Law being applied by an argued inherent danger to the public as a means to remove from society someone who has not broken any laws. That could be problematic but seems to be the only remedy to a non-treatable condition where children are in danger from some individual with such a disorder.
Click to expand...

I agree with the Due Process of Law solution. But if there's no behavior that violates a law, then there is nothing to initiate or launch a legal process.

A pedophile could soapbox in Central Park about all of his sexual fantasies with a child. He might be arrested for lewd, obscene comments about having sex with children...but so what? The consequences wouldn't be much. But if that same person is evidentially guilty for actually having sex with a child...NOW DUE PROCESS should be employed to "seek" the maximum penalty allow by law. Putting pedophiles away in a protected environment for life is really the only solution "in my opinion", but I don't have the power to make laws to that effect.
 
FreedomFromAll said:
Well yes I know that, but seriously how many pedophiles are not child molesters? Pedophilia is considered to be mental disorder, it is on the short list of paraphilias.

The vast majority of sexual assault of a child, is from someone they know. Put a pedophile in that situation and most likely to some degree they will act on it. And considering that there is evidence of brain dysfunction, you cannot guarantee that pedophiles wont commit a sexual crime against a child. Every pedophile is a danger to a child.

"Structural brain abnormalities in the frontostriatal systemand cerebellum in pedophilia

Even though previous neuro psychological studies and clinical case reports have suggested an association between pedophilia and frontocortical dysfunction, our knowledge about the neuro biological mechanisms underlying pedophilia is still fragmentary. Specifically,the brain morphology of such disorders has not yet been investigated using MR imaging techniques.Whole brain structural T1-weighted MR images from 18 pedophile patients (9 attracted to males, 9 attracted to females) and 24 healthy age-matched control subjects (12 hetero- and 12 homosexual) from a comparable socioeconomic stratum were processed by using optimized automated voxel-based morphometry within multiple linear regression analyses.Compared to the homosexual and heterosexual control subjects, pedophiles showed decreased gray matter volume in the ventral stri-atum (also extending into the nucl. accumbens), the orbitofrontal cortex and the cerebellum.These observations further indicate an association between frontostriatal morphometric abnormalities and pedophilia. In this respect these findings may support the hypothesis that there is a shared etiopathological mechanism in all obsessive–compulsive spectrum disorders."

Structural brain abnormalities in the frontostriatal system and cerebellum in pedophilia. J Psychiatr Res (PDF Download Available)
Click to expand...

I would bet that the majority of pedophiles never act on their desires. Just as I doubt most straight and gay people who can't get laid, for whatever reason, turn to rape for release.
 
BrewerBob said:
I would bet that the majority of pedophiles never act on their desires. Just as I doubt most straight and gay people who can't get laid, for whatever reason, turn to rape for release.
Click to expand...

So in your mind a pedophile equates straights and gays?

In mind pedophiles are monsters that should be eradicated from the Earth. Yes I know I am not a very nice person. So what? Im good with being thought a bad person for thinking that all pedophiles must die.
 
chromium said:
Ehm...'inspired' by another thread, i'm wondering how ya'll would handle a situation where you discovered a friend/neighbor/coworker/family was a pedophile who did NOT to your knowledge harm a kid (yet)

What would you do?
Click to expand...

If they've done nothing wrong, what could you do?
 
Removable Mind said:
Has anybody in the forum ever heard of DUE PROCESS OF LAW? It's in the Constitution.

Pedophiles are seriously wired wrong. They commit one of the worse crimes against humanity - ever. No doubt about it.

So how does one go about knowing of a pedophile is celibate? And if there has been no crime committed...then ???????????

Sorry, but I'm not connecting to the purpose of this thread.
Click to expand...

Hypothetical discussion, perhaps. Best I can come up with is someone confides in you that they are attracted to children, but they swear they have not acted on said attraction. What would you do?
 
Ikari said:
If they've done nothing wrong, what could you do?
Click to expand...

Warn people? Keep kids away, for sure. Suggest person seek help before he does end up acting on his impulse. Something like that can be done for sure. Not sure calling the cops would do any good. But, I probably would do that just to be sure the person is not involved with children in some professional capacity: teacher, clergy, little league coach etc.
 
BrewerBob said:
A pedophile is someone who is sexually attracted to pre-pubescent children. It is the attraction that makes them pedophiles. It doesn't necessarily mean they have ever acted, or ever will act, on that attraction. Once they act on it then they are a pedophile AND a child molester.
Click to expand...

It should be noted that more specifically a person can be a pedophile by psychological standards without having acted upon the feelings and urges, but because the law requires the actual action, they are not a pedophile in the eyes of the law. Pedophilia is much like kleptomania in the psychological realm, insofar as it deals with the urges that one has. If one gets help before they act upon it, then they may never perform the act, but they still retain the urges.
 
Luftwaffe said:
Is it pre pubescant or legal minors?

You mean to tell me if some 40 year old hunkers down on a 15 year old they may not be a pedophile?
Click to expand...

By the law it is pedophilia, because the law makes its own definition by which to go by, and that definition only includes the act, not the urges. Psychologically, what we legally call pedophilia, is divided between pedophila, hebephilia and ephebephilia, this later having a range that spans into legal adulthood.
 
Luftwaffe said:
I have been surprised to say the least.

But puberty can occur at different times for different girls... So pedophilia varies depending on the girl and the situation?
Click to expand...

Pedophila has nothing to do with gender, but with age. Your question is irrelevant to the issue.
 
chromium said:
Ehm...'inspired' by another thread, i'm wondering how ya'll would handle a situation where you discovered a friend/neighbor/coworker/family was a pedophile who did NOT to your knowledge harm a kid (yet)

What would you do?
Click to expand...

I would cut all ties and never EVER let my children around that person...
 
maquiscat said:
Pedophila has nothing to do with gender, but with age. Your question is irrelevant to the issue.
Click to expand...

It also occurs at different times for boys, albeit with a lot less variety.

So the question is relevant.

Also, if I deem that you are not important to my discussion with another poster, I'll simply tune you out the entire time while I try to discuss with another poster. You can either enlighten me or get out of the way.
 
calamity said:
Hypothetical discussion, perhaps. Best I can come up with is someone confides in you that they are attracted to children, but they swear they have not acted on said attraction. What would you do?
Click to expand...

You can report them to CPS. However, it's your word against theirs. A person who admits to such feelings - well, that's a biggie for them to confide that to a person who isn't another pedophile. Oh, and making a public announcement that you had a conversation with a person who admitted to having "SEXUAL FEELINGS" for children - could come back to bite you in the ass, legally.

And I don't care how much a person swears that they haven't acted on their attraction. If they haven't they will.

There's nothing that can be done until there's physical proof that a pedophile has engaged in a sex act with a child.

People can terrorize you - make you fear for your life, but you have to have proof.
 
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