Let me get this straight. [W:152,665]

A black man shoots the unarmed and innocent people on national TV.
Another black man assassinates Deputy while he is filling up at a Gas station.
Two black men were arrested last night in my city, one for attempted rape and stabbing the woman when she wouldn't let him and another for trying to rob a person at gunpoint on the street. Sadly...these thing happen daily in my city and so often involve a black male perpetrator that I have come to assume the race of the assailant and am almost always correct.

Yet, I am supposed to care about another black male who robbed a store, assaulted the clerk, confronted police and get shot?

The question is:

Should I support or care about "Black Lives Matter" when black lives do so much to hurt society?

The entire premise of the #BlackLivesMatter movement is based on a lie. Michael Brown did not have his hands up saying "Don't shoot!" before he was killed. Trayvon Martin wasn't hunted down and shot just because he had black skin. Michael Brown chose to attack the police officer, tried to grab his gun and came charging at him ready to fight. Trayvon Martin was followed because he seemed suspicious, but he chose to attack Zimmerman instead of just going home. In both situations, the shooter feared for his life. Neither Brown or Martin was an innocent black man gunned down for no reason.

On the flip side, there are MANY truly innocent black people who are killed every single day and you don't hear a peep from the #BlackLivesMatter folks about them. So it seems like they want to defend the guilty, but not the innocent. Why on earth would a get behind a movement like that?

Josie said:

The entire premise of the #BlackLivesMatter movement is based on a lie. Michael Brown did not have his hands up saying "Don't shoot!" before he was killed. Trayvon Martin wasn't hunted down and shot just because he had black skin. Michael Brown chose to attack the police officer, tried to grab his gun and came charging at him ready to fight. Trayvon Martin was followed because he seemed suspicious, but he chose to attack Zimmerman instead of just going home. In both situations, the shooter feared for his life. Neither Brown or Martin was an innocent black man gunned down for no reason.

On the flip side, there are MANY truly innocent black people who are killed every single day and you don't hear a peep from the #BlackLivesMatter folks about them. So it seems like they want to defend the guilty, but not the innocent. Why on earth would a get behind a movement like that?

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Very well said, Josie.

And great to see you!

Josie said:

The entire premise of the #BlackLivesMatter movement is based on a lie.

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It's not based on Michael Brown. That was among many of the incidents that brought this issue to a head. It's been an epidemic for decades. Whether by training or natural bias, black people are perceived as being more of a thread than white people, which causes them to be targeted disproportionately. Too often these encounters escalate beyond the actual threat level, which is a TRAINING issue that must be addressed. Cops are the professionals and must be held to a much higher standard than Joe Blow with a gun.

tecoyah said:

Should I support or care about "Black Lives Matter" when black lives do so much to hurt society?

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Wrong question.

The honest truth here is we have a real social and economic problem in this nation within the black community, and it is strong enough of a problem that the response has been devastating to the community in all the measurable ways. Poverty levels, education levels, crime levels, health issues, etc. In some ways our history is partly responsible, in other ways how we go about law enforcement and punishment is responsible.

The core problem with the Black Lives Matter movement is how it was sold. *If* the movement was termed "Black Lives Matter too" and they stood in protest anytime a black life was lost including when taken by someone else black (which happens the majority of the time) they would have validity. They would be showing they are concerned about both their community and when we have evidence of racism.

But that is not what they decided to do.

They decided to capitalize on the appearance of impropriety only when a white officer was involved, then dismissed all other loss of life as not important enough to protest over. There is little demand for more safety overall, and little demand for better community. In fact the entire movement centers on a premise of combating "white supremacy" by finding it anytime they can. Therefor, the movement has no real interest in social cohesion, and the effects we see of intentional division were visible a long way back.

It is more likely what we will see from the movement is continued violence and calls for response violence. Riots, damage to property, and even further loss of life is the only probable conclusion as the movement itself is intended to further complicate our social cohesion by looking at all white people as the problem. Said another way, fighting racism by engaging in racism.

So no, there is no valid reason to support the movement. Those who have a notion of social cohesion and/or wanting to really fight racism with awareness and education (the usual solution to most social ills) need to look elsewhere. The Black Lives Matter movement does not care about these things.

tecoyah said:

when black lives do so much to hurt society?

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I can get people seeing the hypocrisy of the Black Lives Matter thing... but this right here?

Come on now.

You just shot a nuclear missile through any point you were trying to make

Jetboogieman said:

I can get people seeing the hypocrisy of the Black Lives Matter thing... but this right here?

Come on now.

You just shot a nuclear missile through any point you were trying to make

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Really...black on Black murder and violence. Rioting, burning, looting and self segregation through fear creation. Self imposed poverty growth and baby momma syndrome. Youth neglect leading to criminally inspired lifestyle. Inherent reverse racism separating themselves from opportunity....etc...

Seems to be a well directed and aimed Nuke.

Amadeus said:

It's not based on Michael Brown. That was among many of the incidents that brought this issue to a head. It's been an epidemic for decades. Whether by training or natural bias, black people are perceived as being more of a thread than white people, which causes them to be targeted disproportionately. Too often these encounters escalate beyond the actual threat level, which is a TRAINING issue that must be addressed. Cops are the professionals and must be held to a much higher standard than Joe Blow with a gun.

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Bull****.

Josie said:

The entire premise of the #BlackLivesMatter movement is based on a lie. Michael Brown did not have his hands up saying "Don't shoot!" before he was killed. Trayvon Martin wasn't hunted down and shot just because he had black skin. Michael Brown chose to attack the police officer, tried to grab his gun and came charging at him ready to fight. Trayvon Martin was followed because he seemed suspicious, but he chose to attack Zimmerman instead of just going home. In both situations, the shooter feared for his life. Neither Brown or Martin was an innocent black man gunned down for no reason.

On the flip side, there are MANY truly innocent black people who are killed every single day and you don't hear a peep from the #BlackLivesMatter folks about them. So it seems like they want to defend the guilty, but not the innocent. Why on earth would a get behind a movement like that?

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What she said.

tecoyah said:

Should I support or care about "Black Lives Matter" when black lives do so much to hurt society?

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You're a racist. Plain and simple.

Nothing in your OP justifies the conclusion you made. You suffer from serious selective and bias seeing. It's almost as if you unaware of the daily crimes committed by white people.

As a white man, I'm assuming you are white, you are far more likely to be killed by another Caucasian individual than you are to be killed by a black person. This includes the fact that of recent years cops have been killed by White Criminals.

They have all rioted, been crimes of mass murders, some slaughter their families, and others commit the same petty crimes blacks are so often incarcerated for.

Statistically White people commit the most impacting and nation shaking crimes. You know the ones that leave more than few dead.

And ultimately the difference between crime rates by race, between blacks and whites, varies with white at times taking the lead.

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/u...he-u.s.-2012/tables/43tabledatadecoverviewpdf

Zinthaniel said:

You're a racist. Plain and simple.

Nothing in your OP justifies the conclusion you made. You suffer from serious selective and bias seeing. It's almost as if you unaware of the daily crimes committed by white people.

As a white man, I'm assuming you are white, you are far more likely to be killed by another Caucasian individual than you are to be killed by a black person. This includes the fact that of recent years cops have been killed by White Criminals.

They have all rioted, been crimes of mass murders, some slaughter their families, and others commit the same petty crimes blacks are so often incarcerated for.

Statistically White people commit the most impacting and nation shaking crimes. You know the ones that leave more than few dead.

And ultimately the difference between crime rates by race, between blacks and whites, varies with white at times taking the lead.

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/u...he-u.s.-2012/tables/43tabledatadecoverviewpdf

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Okay....but this "Racist" understands demographics and population percentages.

I also have reasoning for my paying attention to dangerous situations.

I'm alright being called racist in this case...if only because the thread is about racial differences.

tecoyah said:

Okay....but this "Racist" understands demographics and population percentages.

I also have reasoning for my paying attention to dangerous situations.

I'm alright being called racist in this case...if only because the thread is about racial differences.

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I honestly don't care if you are a proud racist or not.

Your claim that blacks are bad for society is stupid and unfounded.

Zinthaniel said:

I honestly don't care if you are a proud racist or not.

Your claim that blacks are bad for society is stupid and unfounded.

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Did you notice that your chart actually has blacks committing more murders than whites? What are blacks in terms of percentage of the population anyway? Isn't it something like 15% of the population? Then in terms of rape they are less than three thousand behind whites, and what was their percentage of the population again? I didn't go further than that because in all honestly I didn't really see the point.

Zinthaniel said:

I honestly don't care if you are a proud racist or not.

Your claim that blacks are bad for society is stupid and unfounded.

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No, not all blacks. But it seems that there is a higher percentage of individual black people, with respect to over all population, who are.

tecoyah said:

Should I support or care about "Black Lives Matter" when black lives do so much to hurt society?

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This is pretty much the mentality the movement is seeking to combat.

tecoyah said:

Really...black on Black murder and violence. Rioting, burning, looting and self segregation through fear creation. Self imposed poverty growth and baby momma syndrome. Youth neglect leading to criminally inspired lifestyle. Inherent reverse racism separating themselves from opportunity....etc...

Seems to be a well directed and aimed Nuke.

Click to expand...

a351 said:

This is pretty much the mentality the movement is seeking to combat.

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Probably a good thing then that some of the police is militarized (in order to defend themselves). Maybe they saw this coming?

Zinthaniel said:

I honestly don't care if you are a proud racist or not.

Your claim that blacks are bad for society is stupid and unfounded.

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And...I honestly do not care what names you wish to call me. My claim is accurate and the data is easily available for all to make note of. I did NOT however state what you claim I did...Instead I stated that the "Black Lives Matter" movement is counteracted by the recent and powerfully disturbing actions being perpetrated by the very black men it claims to represent, and that the ills and crimes I mentioned make me question what the movement should actually mean.

Henrin said:

Did you notice that your chart actually has blacks committing more murders than whites?

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Yes - I did.
I never claimed otherwise. The majority of the murders are black on black crime.
The same can be said for the murder rate among Caucasians - which isn't that far behind.

What are blacks in terms of percentage of the population anyway? Isn't it something like 15% of the population? Then in terms of rape they are less than three thousand behind whites, and what was their percentage of the population again?

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Why would any of that matter in regards to the claim that they are bad for society? The issue is more nuanced - factor in economic disparity and high poverty rates among the black community and then what you see is typical behavior of impoverished and desperate people. And still the claim that black crime is so impacting and pervasive through society that they are, as a race, a poison to this country, as tecoyah is claiming, is still far off base.

Don't blow your cover Henrin - of all the things I have disagreed with you on - I never took you for a racist.

tecoyah said:

And...I honestly do not care what names you wish to call me. My claim is accurate and the data is easily available for all to make note of.

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There is no data that would support any claim that put so much blame on the backs of black people.

I did NOT however state what you claim I did...Instead I stated that the "Black Lives Matter" movement is counteracted by the recent and powerfully disturbing actions being perpetrated by the very black men it claims to represent, and that the ills and crimes I mentioned make me question what the movement should actually mean.

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No, buddy, what you said was this -

when black lives do so much to hurt society?

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a351 said:

This is pretty much the mentality the movement is seeking to combat.

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....uh....by rioting and burning stuff?
Perhaps by interrupting political speeches?
Oh..I know...by stomping their feet and yelling "Racist".

I recommend a new plan of attack.

The name of this group was not chosen to reflect their real intent. It shouldn't be "black lives matter". It should be "Black behavior doesn't matter and we will call you racist if you think it does".

Zinthaniel said:

Yes - I did.
I never claimed otherwise. The majority of the murders are black on black crime.
The same can be said for the murder rate among Caucasians - which isn't that far behind.

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Lol. Your link deals with total amount of arrests per category listed. According to your own link blacks are highly competitive against whites in many of the categories listed even if they are only 15% of the population. You don't appear to have an answer for that other than talk about something the data isn't even measuring.

Why would any of that matter in regards to the claim that they are bad for society? The issue is more nuanced - factor in economic disparity and high poverty rates among the black community and then what you see is typical behavior impoverished and desperate people. And still the claim that black crime is so impacted pervasive through society that they are the are as a race a poison to this country as tecoyah is claiming is still far off base.

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Why would it matter that they are a small percentage of the population and yet are competing and even sometimes beating the majority population in terms of crime? Oh I don't know, because it shows they are violent and bad for society. lol. Oh and btw, you need another link for crime statistics among poor populations of different races as your link doesn't speak to it.

Don't blow your cover Henrin - of all the things I have disagreed with you on - I never took you for a racist.

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People mistake me for all sorts of things because I always tell it how it is.

Amadeus said:

It's not based on Michael Brown. That was among many of the incidents that brought this issue to a head. It's been an epidemic for decades. Whether by training or natural bias, black people are perceived as being more of a thread than white people, which causes them to be targeted disproportionately. Too often these encounters escalate beyond the actual threat level, which is a TRAINING issue that must be addressed. Cops are the professionals and must be held to a much higher standard than Joe Blow with a gun.

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That could be because according to facts and statistics.....THEY ARE!

Zinthaniel said:

Statistically White people commit the most impacting and nation shaking crimes. You know the ones that leave more than few dead.

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Statistically, White-majority nations are the safest and most prosperous known to history. The U.S. has been one of the safest places in the world since its inception. It's since about 1950 that the tide has been changing.

You mad bro?