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The world is fu**ed and utterly with no hope, or is it?

Is the world fu**** up? Is there any hope left?


  • Total voters
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I guess not. What's wrong? Are you sure you are not being nostalgic again?

How is it "rotting"? Be specific.

Every democracy will in the end become "two sides against each other", in the US its two parties only who are working against each other.. In European multi-party democracies every democracy is approaching steady coalitions of one side against the other... That is how democracy always ends up.. Beside from this, I prefer to be ruled by the elite rather than an average bunch of elected morons..
I do not want party politics, its wrong in essense, because they work against each other, not for their country.. I want one party politics where everyone votes independantly on every cause, and cases are individually brought up..

I want a seperation of the media from politics to avoid this clowning election we have in the US which is now spreading around Europe in record pace.. Politics shouldnt be about telling how stupid the other party is, nor should it be about being "most electable"(having the whitest smile and the best joke, or be the best speaker).. Politics should be about the nation, to make things better, to have a plan for the future and execute this plan.. Democracy limits politics to short time political platforms and "progress" which will never work, because a country needs long term plans..

Politics should not be about individuals, and individuals should NEVER be given too much power.. I believe politicans ought to be dedicated people with no other interests than their country, certainly never be allowed to be lobbied by companies or interests groups as individuals, but only collectedly. I want politics to become clean and more free of corruption than it is now, and to have that happen we need uncorruptable politicians, dedicated politicians who ONLY work for their country and have limited contact with the outside world. I believe everything in politics need to be documented and all things of parliament and congresses and senates and so fourth broadcasted live to the people for them to understand the political process, rather than hear distorted views from elected politicians who obviously want to be re-elected..

The list goes on and on with things..

i could go on an on for days, but I hope you get the basic concept..
 
let me disagree with one little thing you said:


- SNIP -

That is why it is "normal" that the president of France isn't black: there are less black people and they have come much more recently.

I had another point. It's not a matter of normal. Maximus is fond of looking for that which he can bash. One of the favorites among the Global Left is to exaggerate America as a "racist country" rather than a progressive country with racism in it. There is a huge difference. For example, a racist country would be what we see with Saudi Arabia where racism is a matter of lawful mandate and an encouragement.

With Obama, the anti-American Global Left are left looking for another topic to "set us apart" from their perfect world. And when speaking of how Europe is more advanced in terms of society and government, as Maximus declared, "where's you black guy" seems appropriate enough.
 
...and why do we not help these people? The spending on the Iraq war could have made agriculture and knowledge about agriculture in Africa quite advanced..

And here we are again. The spending on the Iraq War is frankly none of your concern since it is American money. Why don't you ask yourself where the EU is in regards to that starving in Africa? I believe the slaughter in Sudan was untouched despite Bush and Blair forcing the UN to take a glance. And how about Congo? Isn't the UN begging the EU to do something other than deliberate and ponder? Let me guess...the mighty EU is waiting on America to get in front or to offer a check book.
 
So the people will have room to manouver and take over power from the class of moron politicians we have around the world now(except those in the Eu institiutions ofcourse ;) )

Oh, Maximus. Don't you know that politicians are politicians and every coup leads to merely more politicians? This is the real world where coups lead to the Khomeinis and people taking over power from the "moron" politicians lead to the Hitlers.
 
As if we have no moral obligations in Africa? The question was, why didnt we go there instead of Iraq, then you cite "moral obligations"... Dont know if I should cry or laugh... :(

Well, this is a very good point. Problem though, is that while America and a few allies focused on our obligation in Iraq, the next powerful and critical of our "allies" didn't find it in themselves to do too much for Africa at all. Perhaps you should look at your own governments and ponder why they have refused any and all obligations in Africa and the Middle East instead of looking towards America despite it's actions of obligation in both.

Briefly... bigger picture is that many more people starve and die in Africa, and that the strategically best thing would be to get Africa on our side before it is too late.. 1 trillion and the effort of the Americans and the Europeans getting involved in a cooperation in this way, also commiting military forces would go a VERY VERY logn way to do this.. The Iraq war did nothing, except regime change and causing US economic disaster..

Once again...American troops have been in the HOA for years. Where is the EU? You talk about "instead", but the truth is that only the EU is absent. Iraq is about the Middle East. The HOA is about Africa. Where is the EU? Certainly not in Congo. Or does America have to place troops on Europe's side of Africa as well?

Yes yes, the middle east is not peaceful, but need to be approached in a very different way..

Once the thorn in the region was removed, these different ways will begin to work.

Democracy isnt all that great...

Fond historical thoughts of Hitler? Muslims in the ME deserve their dictator, but Europeans deserve better? This is what it comes down to.

I happebn to believe in the benevolent dictator concept. However, this isn't practical so why preach on it?

What American treasure? The one in the Chinese central banks? The US debt in Europe, the US debt around the world? The newly printed debt-dollars?

Well, gee. You speak of "our" trillions to Iraq as if it would have lifted Africa into utopia, yet here you are pretending that we have no treasure at all? Your anti-Americanism seems to be confused. You want to see the world's economy wither to nothing? America only needs to close its door and cut off the leeches.

I believe Europe and the US should work together for solutions, and Africa should in my opinion be the main benefitiary..

Oh is that what you believe? You have posts on record for dragging America through the mud while entertaining your fantasy that the EU is next in line, yet here you are seeking a more humble and practical reality? And, of course, you are also on record for declaring America without treasure so what could we possibly offer the great and absent EU in Africa? Hell this thread was about bashing on America. If America can take out to twisted regimes and struggle through to creating two democracies in a region long abused by European powers and dabbled about and maintained by Soviet and American powers then certainly Europe can do something of worth in even tghe smallest part of Africa on its own?

America hasn't been the problem. Criticize Europe. We have decades of one way roads behind us.


...and by the way....Africa is a land of possibility. But mostly for America.

Get real man, the US is heading for irrelevancy.. Europe and the US have always been the same and we have been allies for a long time(in US history), and we should help you and you us in changing things in for example Africa. nd if we combine our military might and economy, perhaps also this decade can be a western decade. I would hardly love to see the US desperately cling to power by advancing their military and nothing else, and doing wars around the world.. Not how I would like things to become...

If we are headed for irrelevency than the EU should be good on its own. And what's this about combining our military might? What's this come to, 80/20? With Bosnia and Afghanistan as examples, Europe isn't offering much in the way of military might.

Many European countries are in Africa... European military vessels are the first one to be involved in protecting the seas outside the coast of Somalia.. They are even discussing a small European navy fleet to go down there under European flags rather than national ones.

Perhaps you should look into this more. The UN is begging the EU to do more than the almost nothing it is doing. European ships off the coast of Somalia have merely met up with American ships that are constantly traversing those waters. The strategic must in Africa right now is the HOA where US Marines have been deployed for years.

...and discussing matters in the European fashion leads to America stepping in (Bosnia anyone?).

Euroep is the only one aside from China who is changing the current. Europe is undergoing great changes, China also.. The US is still stuck in its 1700 style political system, dumb wit politicians and arrogant and ignorant foreign policies.. How about actually doing some good things in your own country? Like getting rid of poverty and so fourth?

How's your economy? And how is unemployment? And what about that exponentially growing immigration burden right now? We Americans like to think that we have it sooo bad, but the truth is that Europe has it far worse and its consistent. But thanks for taking it upon yourself to offer advice to those who are way ahead of your problems.

Ok ok, I give up.. You are right about everything because the US is going to have a black president.. Sorry.. :roll:

But...but....what happened to racist America and its inferior status to European society? Once again...where's your black guy?

We dont need to march for something we have, nor did we need to end slavery like the US did..

That's right. The European solution has always been to export the inferior culture or to slaughter them off until the populaiton is "pure" again. From inquisitions, to ethnic displacements, to genocide. History speaks loudly even up to the entirety of the 20th century. Perhaps America culd have spared itself the civil war and the civil rights marches by exporting our problems too. We like to think that we faced our problem the way all civilizations should. It was America that made the statement about slavery through our civil war and America that set the standard for civil rights and equality via our marches.

Bypassed the whole US air force, making them stand down while they flew two planes far of route into the city of New York and into your two tallest buidings, the ones with asbestos and fat new insurance policies..

The whole US AirForce? All of them? The anti-American at his desperate obtuse best. It was probably the whole Coast Guard too, huh?


NATO and all this will have to be another discussion.. I just believe in a single European military force which can be in alliance with the US military force..

Like in Afghanistan? The thing about the Euro/American alliance is that America will always be left to burden the work load unless another Hitler crosses your borders. Other than that, the "alliance" is a joke. You believe in a fantasy. And "if" America is to lose its global power then it only needs to withdraw and leave Europe to its own devices. We'll be fine.
 
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I had another point. It's not a matter of normal. Maximus is fond of looking for that which he can bash. One of the favorites among the Global Left is to exaggerate America as a "racist country" rather than a progressive country with racism in it. There is a huge difference. For example, a racist country would be what we see with Saudi Arabia where racism is a matter of lawful mandate and an encouragement.

With Obama, the anti-American Global Left are left looking for another topic to "set us apart" from their perfect world. And when speaking of how Europe is more advanced in terms of society and government, as Maximus declared, "where's you black guy" seems appropriate enough.

I never said America is a racist country, it was before yes..

Europes political climate and governance is modern, ever developing and very proactive.. It is more advanced in terms of government, and adding all the nations of Europe under it I also believe our society is far more diverse and advanced, yes..

America isnt more progressive politically than Europe JUST because you have elected a black guy president, like you like to put it and did in a previous post..
 
And here we are again. The spending on the Iraq War is frankly none of your concern since it is American money.

Yes it is.. I want America to succeed, and to do that it needs to spend money at home, it needs to reform a lot of things, upgrade infrastructure, bring healthcare to everyone and get rid of poverty, not spend money abroad in useless wars that just creates trouble..

Why don't you ask yourself where the EU is in regards to that starving in Africa? I believe the slaughter in Sudan was untouched despite Bush and Blair forcing the UN to take a glance. And how about Congo? Isn't the UN begging the EU to do something other than deliberate and ponder? Let me guess...the mighty EU is waiting on America to get in front or to offer a check book.

IN addition to all member states donating more to Africa than the US in % of GDP, The European Union also donates foreign aid to help Africa.. I hope they will do more, it angers me that the programs are unprogressive like it has always been. Foreign aid needs to be injected with ambitions all across the world to avoid just dumping food on starving Africans and pretend that everything is fine..

The EU for some reason and the nations in it was about to send troops to congo, pan European army groups to bring stability, it was stopped, but the discussions are still there.. But hey, European military influence is still not that great, but improving fast, but slower than I would like..
 
Oh, Maximus. Don't you know that politicians are politicians and every coup leads to merely more politicians? This is the real world where coups lead to the Khomeinis and people taking over power from the "moron" politicians lead to the Hitlers.

I would love nothing more than true political reform, to bring political systems across the world into modernity rather than the current pre-industrial political systems we have.. Americas political system is one of the very worst in the developed world.
 
Well, this is a very good point. Problem though, is that while America and a few allies focused on our obligation in Iraq, the next powerful and critical of our "allies" didn't find it in themselves to do too much for Africa at all. Perhaps you should look at your own governments and ponder why they have refused any and all obligations in Africa and the Middle East instead of looking towards America despite it's actions of obligation in both.

Dont EVER believe I am angry at just America for this....


Once again...American troops have been in the HOA for years. Where is the EU? You talk about "instead", but the truth is that only the EU is absent. Iraq is about the Middle East. The HOA is about Africa. Where is the EU? Certainly not in Congo. Or does America have to place troops on Europe's side of Africa as well?

Europe have the largest presence of troops in Africa.. Most are behind UN flag and in peacekeeping operations..

I wonder with all the new unemployment if it wouldnt be smart of Europe and America to boost their military troop numbers and get their hands dirty in Africa.


Once the thorn in the region was removed, these different ways will begin to work.
Dont you see it? Middle east is just getting worse when you wage wars there, its like putting water in boiling oil. Splash and explode.


Fond historical thoughts of Hitler? Muslims in the ME deserve their dictator, but Europeans deserve better? This is what it comes down to.

I happebn to believe in the benevolent dictator concept. However, this isn't practical so why preach on it?


I believe in modern political models that are partly democratic and partly elite controled(I will post a comprehensive thread about this when I have time).. Chinas system is pretty good right now.. One party democracy with independant politicians and votes are certainly progress from todays silly democracy.. The Chinese work together for their people, not against the other political grouping.


Well, gee. You speak of "our" trillions to Iraq as if it would have lifted Africa into utopia, yet here you are pretending that we have no treasure at all? Your anti-Americanism seems to be confused. You want to see the world's economy wither to nothing? America only needs to close its door and cut off the leeches.

No, I said it would have gone a long way in improving things.. Wouldnt an Africa with a more healthy economy and more stable political systems in the end benefit both Europe and the US? That is a principle of the EU I strongly believe in, and what is happening in Europe is strong proof that such a way of thinking very well.

Btw. Do you have any treasure left?


Oh is that what you believe? You have posts on record for dragging America through the mud while entertaining your fantasy that the EU is next in line, yet here you are seeking a more humble and practical reality? And, of course, you are also on record for declaring America without treasure so what could we possibly offer the great and absent EU in Africa? Hell this thread was about bashing on America. If America can take out to twisted regimes and struggle through to creating two democracies in a region long abused by European powers and dabbled about and maintained by Soviet and American powers then certainly Europe can do something of worth in even tghe smallest part of Africa on its own?

America hasn't been the problem. Criticize Europe. We have decades of one way roads behind us.

I have dragged the US through the mud yes, but only because I belive you are doing the wrong things, and certainly if it continues like things are now, America will loose all their power and Europe will be the next sole power, depending on what happens in China tho..

Please, dont get stuck in the past, look at how things are now and think about how you want them to be in the future.. You can.. And again, Europe is all over Africa, but not doing enough..


...and by the way....Africa is a land of possibility. But mostly for America.


If we are headed for irrelevency than the EU should be good on its own. And what's this about combining our military might? What's this come to, 80/20? With Bosnia and Afghanistan as examples, Europe isn't offering much in the way of military might.

I would say its 70/30 at the moment in terms of power.. Remember Europea military spendings are approximately 200 billion € combined, we have 2 million well trained troops and quite advanced technology... The problem is too much duplication of things, thats why we need to combine our forces.. Please dont underestimate European military capabilities, I know that you know better.


Perhaps you should look into this more. The UN is begging the EU to do more than the almost nothing it is doing. European ships off the coast of Somalia have merely met up with American ships that are constantly traversing those waters. The strategic must in Africa right now is the HOA where US Marines have been deployed for years.

...and discussing matters in the European fashion leads to America stepping in (Bosnia anyone?).

All this is why I believe Europe must combine forces and them combine them with American forces, and cooperate on strategy and future missions..


How's your economy? And how is unemployment? And what about that exponentially growing immigration burden right now? We Americans like to think that we have it sooo bad, but the truth is that Europe has it far worse and its consistent. But thanks for taking it upon yourself to offer advice to those who are way ahead of your problems.

America is collapsing far faster.. European unenploment have risen from 7 to 7.7 % with the financial crisis while that of the US have increased from 4 to 6.6%, a far worse tendency and broader collapse as I see it.. Europes economy is more diverse and have stronger fundamentals which is why the collapse is not that broad over here as it is in the paper based "gambling" economy of the US..


But...but....what happened to racist America and its inferior status to European society? Once again...where's your black guy?

Come on.. Are you really trying to say America is superior in terms of political progres just because you have now elected a black guy president? Wow, that really dissapoints me.. Take a broader look on things, please...


That's right. The European solution has always been to export the inferior culture or to slaughter them off until the populaiton is "pure" again. From inquisitions, to ethnic displacements, to genocide. History speaks loudly even up to the entirety of the 20th century. Perhaps America culd have spared itself the civil war and the civil rights marches by exporting our problems too. We like to think that we faced our problem the way all civilizations should. It was America that made the statement about slavery through our civil war and America that set the standard for civil rights and equality via our marches.

Have multiculturims ever worked? Are black people integrated completely into US society or arabs in European society? I would dare to claim that multiculturism have come further in Europe despite our problems with integreation of arabs..
The question is, will it ever work to have a society of co-habitation of different groups of people? It has always lead to disaster in the past, not just in Europe..


The whole US AirForce? All of them? The anti-American at his desperate obtuse best. It was probably the whole Coast Guard too, huh?

I never actually said that 911 is a conspiracy, but it very well might have been.. And with you superior air force I find it strange that 911 could happen.

Can you aswer me one thing? Why is port authority police in New York now acting as regular police, that I find strange..



Like in Afghanistan? The thing about the Euro/American alliance is that America will always be left to burden the work load unless another Hitler crosses your borders. Other than that, the "alliance" is a joke. You believe in a fantasy. And "if" America is to lose its global power then it only needs to withdraw and leave Europe to its own devices. We'll be fine.

I believe we need to renew European military forces and NATO to prepare for a new world that isnt the same as the post ww2 world.
 
I would love nothing more than true political reform, to bring political systems across the world into modernity rather than the current pre-industrial political systems we have.. Americas political system is one of the very worst in the developed world.

I can agree with this. We would be much better off under a proportional representation system.
 
Europes economy is more diverse and have stronger fundamentals which is why the collapse is not that broad over here as it is in the paper based "gambling" economy of the US..

How is Europe's economy more diverse? Explain this. Is the United States depending on a single industry I'm not aware of?
 
Europes political climate and governance is modern, ever developing and very proactive.. It is more advanced in terms of government, and adding all the nations of Europe under it I also believe our society is far more diverse and advanced, yes..


It's always been an illusion and every crisis shows more and more truth. The European tribes needed to do something to fix their economies so they united them. Now they bicker over how to fix the economy. The European tribes bicker over military deployment. The problem with combining tribes is that eventually every single one will seek autonomy, especially during that crisis. And immigration will add to the pressures of trying to spackle the tribal cracks in the EU.
 
Yes it is.. I want America to succeed, and to do that it needs to spend money at home, it needs to reform a lot of things, upgrade infrastructure, bring healthcare to everyone and get rid of poverty, not spend money abroad in useless wars that just creates trouble..

No, it's not. Unfortunately, after an entire Cold War spanning over 4 decades, Europe still can't babysit that which keeps it secure. It can't even protect itself as was proven with Bosnia. And with America allowing Europe to remain comfortably under our defense wings, we continue to not have the luxury to be selfish. Someone's got to do it out there and those that live out there deny their responsibility. Those that live out there refuse to man the posts. Which is why I have an isolationalist streak in me.

And by the way...are you even aware of what has ocurred in the Middle East since 2003 besides the dwindling sensalionalist headlines? The more successful Iraq gets, the brighter the Middle East's future looks. And I would say that an exponentially growing extremist problem with nukes on the horizen is just as important as a festering misery in Africa. Probably more.

IN addition to all member states donating more to Africa than the US in % of GDP, The European Union also donates foreign aid to help Africa.. I hope they will do more, it angers me that the programs are unprogressive like it has always been. Foreign aid needs to be injected with ambitions all across the world to avoid just dumping food on starving Africans and pretend that everything is fine..

Throwing money towards corruption only strengthens the problems of Africa. I believe Bush and Blair argued this very well while offering conditions on how they should receive our wealth. But I love how you people like to use the "% in UDP" to massage the numbers and wash your hands. In addition to actual annual aid, we spend money on a military that is out there. We spend money on far more NGOs that are out there. It's like arguing that you have done your share by writing a check at the digging site and offering it to the embezzling foreman while another player actually brought the tools and manpower.

The EU for some reason and the nations in it was about to send troops to congo, pan European army groups to bring stability, it was stopped, but the discussions are still there.. But hey, European military influence is still not that great, but improving fast, but slower than I would like..

This is exactly what I'm, talking about. It was stopped because the tribes couldn't agree. And when it does agree, it will be with conditions and it will be a repeat of Somalia.

Forty plus years saw Europe lick its wounds and selfishly cater to self while America did the heavy lifting work around the globe. By the time Bosnia came around, America was expected to do the heavy lifting still. And when 9/11 occurred, the European thanks was to deploy the bare minimum of troop strength (expecting America to burden the show) with a population that increasingly complained that it wasn't their problem.

Improving fast? European military influence is dismall and lacks a good punching ability. And as we have seen, they seem to relegate their forces to less violent schemes of defense. In other words....not where they are needed and can be useful.
 
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Europe have the largest presence of troops in Africa.. Most are behind UN flag and in peacekeeping operations..

Exactly what I stated earlier. European forces favor hiding behind the UN flag on peacekeeping missions rather than actually doing something of substance. If there is one thing everyone should have learned by now, its that the UN can't be trusted to ever do anything to save lives until after it is in react mode and the violence has subsided. And even then, it takes an act of God to budge it. And Europe likes to hang its hat on UN pace. It's both conveneint and misleading.

I wonder with all the new unemployment if it wouldnt be smart of Europe and America to boost their military troop numbers and get their hands dirty in Africa.

Eventually, America is going to be heavy in the HOA. It's inevitable. In the mean time, we are going to fix Afghanistan/Pakistan enough to where we are comfortable. But what's keeping Europe? With the bare minimum in Afghanistan, surely more can be dispatched to Africa.

Dont you see it? Middle east is just getting worse when you wage wars there, its like putting water in boiling oil. Splash and explode.

As opposed to doing nothing and seeing things get worse when allowing a roll of the dice to dictate the path? The modernists are louder than they have ever been. The Egyptian and Saudi governments are being pressured by their populations more than ever before. Women's suffrage occurred in 4 Arab nations since 2004.

The proper way to describe the mood in the Middle East is to compare it to a bottle of soda that has been shaken and shaken for decades. Eventually, the cap is going to explode or the explosion can be balanced and directed. Taking out the thorn and encouraging a regional path away from oppression (which leads to religious fundamentalism to radicalism to extremism) is a way to direct this inevitable explosion.

The Chinese work together for their people, not against the other political grouping.

Sure. It only takes a tiny tiny bit of oppression and outlawing other political groups over misplaced fear of historical religious radical groups.

Btw. Do you have any treasure left?

We always have treasure. And do you know why? Because the dollar is dependable. It was dependable throughout the Cold War and after when Clinton dug us out while being responsible to all debts. And today, we are dependable and will eventually dig out while being responsible to all debts. We won't combine our economy with others and we will not seek ways to refuse our debts by invading a neighbor.

We are wealthy because we can be trusted. It's our capitalistic way to always turn the corner and persevere.

Please, dont get stuck in the past, look at how things are now and think about how you want them to be in the future.. You can.. And again, Europe is all over Africa, but not doing enough..

Stuck in the past? We're all about "Change We Can Believe In" now haven't you heard? But little will change. Our foriegn policies will continue to see America burdened with the world's mess while Europe remains comfortably on a bleacher or seeking ways to undermine while dispatching the bare minimum.

I want America to take a step back and allow Europe to take the burden for a while. but until it does, America will continue to have to do it and sacrifice our own sense of utopia.

Please dont underestimate European military capabilities, I know that you know better.

I have seen European forces in action. I have seen them hang back and I have seen them bicker amongst themselves over who's job was what as American forces simply moved on by. Your capabilities demand small tasks, because you are not built for anything bigger. Nor are your forces capable of conducting combat together in a "Combined Arms" aspect. The technology your troops enjoy (French FELIN for example) over what American troops have is a luxury because your military budget doesn't include things like global nuclear submarines, air craft carriers and other big budget type necessities to maintain a global force in readiness.

All this is why I believe Europe must combine forces and them combine them with American forces, and cooperate on strategy and future missions..

It will never happen. One of the reasons fratricide has occurred from American on European forces is that we move too fast. We can keep up with each other and we can maintain our sectors of fire, but we can't do this with European forces in the mix. We learn from every expedition and improve. Europe treats every expedition as if it was their last. This is why European forces hang back or are placed further away from what needs to get done in an assault. With Iraq, we set new records of speed for ourselves thanks to not only our satellite technology in communications and constant awareness to battlefield, but the ability to use it properly. European forces could not have kept up and would have gotten in the way. Even the British were left to guard the rear (Basra). In Afghanistan, most European forces have been relegated to the safer zones. Before this, in Somalia, European forces were left out of any aggresive natured missions. The same was true for Bosnia. Before this there was the Cold War and Europe didn't have much of a role at all other than minor ones.

You may like to think about a possible future, but even today, European forces are divided and unable to work together because the governments can't even find common ground on what to do with them. They don't deploy consistently to train with foriegn militaries. Their generals have minor to no roles in the diplomacy fields unlike the regional commanders of the American military (CENTCOM, EUCOM, PACOM, SOCOM, etc.). They don't train enough in regards to the Combined Arms aspect. How on earth are they supposed to be combined and then combined with the American military?

America is collapsing far faster..

America always does things in dramatic and extreme fashions. This is why our entertainment fields dominate globally. Our social issues are a matter of global soap opera. We are extreme people. Our economy will biounce easy enough when we do what we have to do. Haven't you noticed? Historically, America has had a knack for re-inventing itself when the need arose. Is there reason to suggest that we have lost the drive to succeed and prosper? Isolationalism did it for us until it was time to enter the world. global influence and dominance did it for us during the Cold War. And globalization will be the next drive to propell us where we need to go.

Another historical fact is that people on the outside, especially the "Global Left," always seek America's downfall whenever it hiccups. But when it bounces and moves on, those same voices find another thing to criticize. No one is collapsing. And we will emerge before the rest.

Come on.. Are you really trying to say America is superior in terms of political progres just because you have now elected a black guy president? Wow, that really dissapoints me.. Take a broader look on things, please...

I stated "society." As far as politicial progress, I don't see anything spectacular. The tribes bicker more often than not. Local governments bicker with the EU. The EU bickers with Europe's part of NATO. They can't come together in terms of local economic crisis, yet speak about being the global leader to correct the globe's economy.

Have multiculturims ever worked? Are black people integrated completely into US society or arabs in European society?

We have black Generals and politicians. Judges, Lawyers, Doctors, Professors, civil servants, etc. One even got himself elected to the world's most powerful seat a few weeks ago via white folk votes. How much more integrated are they supposed to get before people stop exaggerating the plight of the American black man? It's become a moot point anymore. The only ones that don't seem to know this are those black Americans who are still looking for an excuse for failure or those Europeans who wish Europe's problems to be America's problems.

Multiculturism is a matter of fact. Immigration is a fact. No one wants to immigrate to Asia or Africa. Disney Land and Hollywood is in the West. The days of ethnically exporting or cleansing as a means to keep things "pure" is in the European past. America fought a civil war over it and marched for it. The rest of you are stuck accepting it. Of course, Europe's problems with Muslim immigration hasn't even begun yet. The question is to ponder over Europe's history and speculate what will occur. Europe doesn't have a very good track record in a time of crisis.


I never actually said that 911 is a conspiracy, but it very well might have been.. And with you superior air force I find it strange that 911 could happen.

The Air Force has nothing to do with it. These were non-military air planes. Were this a military threat where these planes came from the outside, they would not have made it. Our defense systems don't track US Airways, Canadian Airlines, Delta, United, etc. These are civilian companies with their own civilian systems. After the attack, military jets were scrambled, but even this would have meant firing upon civilian airliners if there were anymore.


Can you aswer me one thing? Why is port authority police in New York now acting as regular police, that I find strange..

The "Department of Home Land Security" rearranged a lot of things. But it's not that strange. Our nuclear submarine bases have always had civilian cops at the gates and not just military personel.

I believe we need to renew European military forces and NATO to prepare for a new world that isnt the same as the post ww2 world.

I agree with you on Africa (but with greater detail) and the need to re-organize in the post "COLD WAR" era. But this will not happen. Europe won't step up. And America simply doesn't need NATO. It never did. NATO was more about painting a shield around Europe anyway. And with the Soviet Union gone, I believe Europe should be left to fend for itself against a Russia pretending back to power. It's time America dealt with all those internal things Europe focused on for decades. We are very safe across the oceans. Hell, even 9/11 was a minor inconvenience for which revenge would have been satisfied with a quick "punitive expedition."
 
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/wrists.....
 
How is Europe's economy more diverse? Explain this. Is the United States depending on a single industry I'm not aware of?

How the hell am I suppose to do that when a post is limited in numbers of words you can have? I cant go through the whole of both economies, nor do I want to spend the effort to do so just for demostrating to you that I am right.

Isnt it obvious to you also that Europe is far more diverse? I am not saying the US economy is worse, but less diverse(and more vulnerable), even you can easily admit that.

Take financial gambling or the "papergambling" and stock market part of the economy, it accounts for a far larger part of the US economy than that of Europe making the US far more vulnerable in time of crisis than Europe, which is my point.

Europe is more manufacture and production based..
 
It's always been an illusion and every crisis shows more and more truth. The European tribes needed to do something to fix their economies so they united them. Now they bicker over how to fix the economy. The European tribes bicker over military deployment. The problem with combining tribes is that eventually every single one will seek autonomy, especially during that crisis. And immigration will add to the pressures of trying to spackle the tribal cracks in the EU.

This crisis is America, remember that.. You are the ones loosing jobs in record speeds, not us.
 
No, it's not. Unfortunately, after an entire Cold War spanning over 4 decades, Europe still can't babysit that which keeps it secure. It can't even protect itself as was proven with Bosnia. And with America allowing Europe to remain comfortably under our defense wings, we continue to not have the luxury to be selfish. Someone's got to do it out there and those that live out there deny their responsibility. Those that live out there refuse to man the posts. Which is why I have an isolationalist streak in me.
:rofl
So Iraq is now our fault?

Iraq will never be stable, you broke the country yes, I know that much, and now people live in missery there.. It is said that people were far more happy under Saddam. What does that tell you?



And by the way...are you even aware of what has ocurred in the Middle East since 2003 besides the dwindling sensalionalist headlines? The more successful Iraq gets, the brighter the Middle East's future looks. And I would say that an exponentially growing extremist problem with nukes on the horizen is just as important as a festering misery in Africa. Probably more.
:rofl

So now the media of the world reporting from Iraq is "dwindling sensationalist headlines"?

Iraq isnt a success and the middle east looks far worse now than at any time before, why do you think nations such as Iran is so eager to get nuclear weapons? Its because you are meddling down there, and they are afraid.. Why do you think Pakistan is worse than ever? Because everyone there is so pissed of with US actions in the middle east.. You are creating a deadly crisis and spreading hatred from the middle east across the world.. Madrid, London, India and so fourth is all because of your actions in the middle east, and attacks will only be more frequent in the future because of what you have done..


Throwing money towards corruption only strengthens the problems of Africa. I believe Bush and Blair argued this very well while offering conditions on how they should receive our wealth. But I love how you people like to use the "% in UDP" to massage the numbers and wash your hands. In addition to actual annual aid, we spend money on a military that is out there. We spend money on far more NGOs that are out there. It's like arguing that you have done your share by writing a check at the digging site and offering it to the embezzling foreman while another player actually brought the tools and manpower.

Military conquest is not foreign aid.. Gee, now I am really dissapointed with you.. Besides, Americans are the ones always posting GDP numbers to prove they are best.. I merely mentioned that Europe spends more on foreign aid.


This is exactly what I'm, talking about. It was stopped because the tribes couldn't agree. And when it does agree, it will be with conditions and it will be a repeat of Somalia.

Forty plus years saw Europe lick its wounds and selfishly cater to self while America did the heavy lifting work around the globe. By the time Bosnia came around, America was expected to do the heavy lifting still. And when 9/11 occurred, the European thanks was to deploy the bare minimum of troop strength (expecting America to burden the show) with a population that increasingly complained that it wasn't their problem.

Improving fast? European military influence is dismall and lacks a good punching ability. And as we have seen, they seem to relegate their forces to less violent schemes of defense. In other words....not where they are needed and can be useful.

Thats because we had to rebuild and you didnt.. Dont you see that? The US came out of the ww2 better than before while Europe lay in ruin, now we have cought up and are waving to a stagnant US as we rush on by..

In think its intellectualism which is really stagnant in the US.. I admire your ability to invent things tho, but US views on things are screwed up pretty bad.
 
How the hell am I suppose to do that when a post is limited in numbers of words you can have? I cant go through the whole of both economies, nor do I want to spend the effort to do so just for demostrating to you that I am right.
:rofl
Go ahead and use more than one post if you want. As for the bolded part, that's basically what a debate forum is all about. If you don't want to put forth the effort to demonstrate why you're right why are you even here?

Isnt it obvious to you also that Europe is far more diverse? I am not saying the US economy is worse, but less diverse(and more vulnerable), even you can easily admit that.
No, I can't. Despite the fact that Europe has countries speaking a large array of languages this does not make their economy more diverse. They have the same indrustries that the the US does.

Take financial gambling or the "papergambling" and stock market part of the economy, it accounts for a far larger part of the US economy than that of Europe making the US far more vulnerable in time of crisis than Europe, which is my point.

Europe is more manufacture and production based..

They are buying stocks in corporations that manufacture things. Europe does the same thing.
 
Yup all of the world's problems are at the fault of America.

If America does something, and things don't go smoothly, it's America's fault.

If genocides are ocurring and no one steps up, it's America that is to blame.

What a joke.

Actually, its usually the result of George Bushes inteference with every matter and your incorrect foriegn policies.
Who blamed you for Mungabe and Zimbabwe? No one. Who blamed you for Iraq? Everyone. Dont make out America is innocent, because its just as guilty as the rest of us.
The financial crisis is not just Americas doing, though it has prooved to be a catalyst in the credit crunch process, War in Iraq is not fought soley by American troops, but it has the largest military deployment there (there are british troops, german troops etc deployed there as you already know).
America is blamed for most things that it involves itself in, fine thats acceptable, but:

If genocides are ocurring and no one steps up, it's America that is to blame.

Sorry, but no.
 
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Voted other. Happy is a choice. There could be a huge life extinguishing rock falling from space and i'll still sit down on the ground and sing "Dont Worry, Be Happy" as it plummets.
 
:rofl
Go ahead and use more than one post if you want. As for the bolded part, that's basically what a debate forum is all about. If you don't want to put forth the effort to demonstrate why you're right why are you even here?


No, I can't. Despite the fact that Europe has countries speaking a large array of languages this does not make their economy more diverse. They have the same indrustries that the the US does.



They are buying stocks in corporations that manufacture things. Europe does the same thing.

But the US is more dependant on finance and stock markets and so on, the fake part of the economy. The point of mine was the US is more vulnerable to crisis like this, and it is clearly seen in unemployment numbers, whereas the decline in Europe is not rapid, but that in the US is just about disasterous. Export accounts for a larger part of the European economy, which is a healthy thing, more manufacturing and production based than finance based.. but yes, of course, we also have a large finance sector...

I didnt speak about languages, but differences within Europe as oppose to smaller differences within the US.. We are 27 vastly different countries, while the US is 50 rather alike states.. Development in Europe is also very different from country to country, while almost equal in the US states.

So, I can easily say Europe is more diverse without going through and explaining both economies to you in several posts..
 
unknown said:
Quote:
Yup all of the world's problems are at the fault of America.

If America does something, and things don't go smoothly, it's America's fault.

If genocides are ocurring and no one steps up, it's America that is to blame.

What a joke.

Response......


Who is the moron are you quoting here?
 
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SixStringHero buddy, on the first page ^_^
 
SixStringHero buddy, on the first page ^_^

Thats just the way things have become. Intellectual debate is about to die... Lets put up the gravestone and put 2007/2008 on it. (or maybe it happend before)
 
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