• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

The world is fu**ed and utterly with no hope, or is it?

Is the world fu**** up? Is there any hope left?

  • Nope, its not

    Votes: 12 27.9%

  • Nope, Im so stupid that I cannot see how idiotic things are

    Votes: 2 4.7%

  • Nope, I like being a selfish and utterly stupid retard

    Votes: 4 9.3%

  • The rest of the world is, American culture rules

    Votes: 3 7.0%

  • Yes, obviously, look at us, we are pathetic beings

    Votes: 4 9.3%

  • Yes, there is absolutely no hope

    Votes: 1 2.3%

  • Yes, something needs to be done, people need to be enlightened

    Votes: 14 32.6%

  • Yea, everything is just ****ed, including me

    Votes: 2 4.7%

  • Something else.. explain..

    Votes: 12 27.9%
  • Total voters
    43
Maximus Zeebra said:
Its pathetic to see the direction the world is taking and the worst of it has happened during Americas "watch"..
Click to expand...

Why the hell is it our watch? Take care of your own damned ****.
 
Ikari said:
Why the hell is it our watch? Take care of your own damned ****.
Click to expand...

Think of America as management. And Europe as the employees. The employees CAN bring up what they think is wrong and how to fix it. But they don't. So when management comes up with a new idea. All that the employees do is complain. What we have here is a situation of Europeans being the disgruntled employees of America.
 
Hatuey said:
Think of America as management. And Europe as the employees. The employees CAN bring up what they think is wrong and how to fix it. But they don't. So when management comes up with a new idea. All that the employees do is complain. What we have here is a situation of Europeans being the disgruntled employees of America.
Click to expand...

Perhaps it is time for a massive involuntary severance package (aka layoff)....
 
Maximus Zeebra said:
I believe this poll is very relevant for our times...
Click to expand...

If you believe the world is ****ed up now then you really need to read more history. Human life has been consistently getting better. There's no guarantee that such will continue but the trend is overwhelmingly positive.
 
scourge99 said:
If you believe the world is ****ed up now then you really need to read more history. Human life has been consistently getting better. There's no guarantee that such will continue but the trend is overwhelmingly positive.
Click to expand...

Just watching the TV shows about how people lived and what jobs they had to do only a few hundred years ago is proof that we are better off now.
Sure we can do better, and we will, with occasional lapses, but the trend is positive.
As for America's watch, what time span would that be? Would it include the 2world wars that europeans started, and we helped win?
 
scourge99 said:
If you believe the world is ****ed up now then you really need to read more history. Human life has been consistently getting better. There's no guarantee that such will continue but the trend is overwhelmingly positive.
Click to expand...

History is a story of ups and downs really, not consistent progress across all spheres. Some things get better and other worse at any point in time.
 
Wessexman said:
History is a story of ups and downs really, not consistent progress across all spheres. Some things get better and other worse at any point in time.
Click to expand...

Whats worse now than 50 years ago? How about 200 years ago? How about 1000 years ago? 2000? 4000?
 
scourge99 said:
Whats worse now than 50 years ago? How about 200 years ago? How about 1000 years ago? 2000? 4000?
Click to expand...

The overbearing state, the decline of community and localism, the decline of traditional associations, atomisation, pollution and over enviromental problems, suicide as Durkheim pointed out a century ago and still remains the cases for a start.

The whig view of history is bogus and not very useful.
 
Wessexman said:
The overbearing state
Click to expand...
AS opposed to?

Wessexman said:
the decline of community and localism
Click to expand...
Where are in the information age. There's even more community interaction its just on a broader scale.

Wessexman said:
the decline of traditional associations
Click to expand...
:confused: Example?

Wessexman said:
atomisation
Click to expand...
:confused:

Wessexman said:
pollution and over enviromental problems
Click to expand...
True

Wessexman said:
suicide as Durkheim pointed out a century ago and still remains the cases for a start.
Click to expand...
I'm not familiar with suicide rates.

Wessexman said:
The whig view of history is bogus and not very useful.
Click to expand...
That why you have to read more than one book on the same subject. :2razz:
 
scourge99 said:
AS opposed to?
Click to expand...
A less overbearing state.

A current has many pluses I certainly agree. I do think that however we have lost some things or not replaced them well enough.




Where are in the information age. There's even more community interaction its just on a broader scale.
Click to expand...
There is far less of what is real community interaction. The bonds of local community have declined greatly and the internet hardly makes up for it. I shudder to think of an age when it could.

:confused: Example?
Click to expand...
Family, guilds/occupational associations, local community, church.

:confused:
Click to expand...
With the decline of traditional intermediate associations like local community and family and their replacement with little or nothing men are more cut off from social interaction and association. Men are atomised, lively largley individually or in very small groups.

Atomisation is not good for individuals and it necessitates they look elsewhere for the comforts that society once brought them from Evangelical religion to addiction and most obviously the overbearing state. Statism and atomism feed on each other.

That why you have to read more than one book on the same subject. :2razz:
Click to expand...
I've read many. I have found the progress is always good view is not usually associated with the best grip of history.
 
Last edited:
Hatuey said:
Think of America as management. And Europe as the employees. The employees CAN bring up what they think is wrong and how to fix it. But they don't. So when management comes up with a new idea. All that the employees do is complain. What we have here is a situation of Europeans being the disgruntled employees of America.
Click to expand...

You have to remember that Europe was completely broken after the second world war, the US was not, they came out stronger than before the war. Europeans just see things in different ways than America, and even tho we are allies we can still disagree that we agree and disagree, yes, agreed?
 
scourge99 said:
If you believe the world is ****ed up now then you really need to read more history. Human life has been consistently getting better. There's no guarantee that such will continue but the trend is overwhelmingly positive.
Click to expand...

People are loosing their jobs, the economy is balancing on a thin line that can end in total collapse, the fundamentals of our economies are very weak compared with the free market part of the economy, meaning we arent actually creating real values, but papervalues, our fundamentals havent ever declined so fast in the modern world as they are right now, and on side of that the free markets are also partly collapsing..
 
scourge99 said:
If you believe the world is ****ed up now then you really need to read more history. Human life has been consistently getting better. There's no guarantee that such will continue but the trend is overwhelmingly positive.
Click to expand...

Why is human life better now than it was in say 1802? The squalor factor of life should matter, and in England for example human life is constantly getting worse as more and more people inhibit a small country. What is actually better in England now, for an average middle class person than it was in the same place 200 or even 400 years ago? They had more freedom then, people worked for themself independently instead of slaving for companies, they had plenty of space, fresh air, calm cities, relative cleanliness and so fourth..

Just because you have electronic devices now doesnt mean life is better than it was before, it might actually be poorer as a result..
 
scourge99 said:
Whats worse now than 50 years ago? How about 200 years ago? How about 1000 years ago? 2000? 4000?
Click to expand...

Polluted drinking water, polluted air, noisy cities, dangerous cities just to mention a few.. Life has become very predictable for most the people in the western world, some would view this as the most negative factor of our development, in the past people was free in a very different ways.
 
Maximus Zeebra said:
What is actually better in England now, for an average middle class person than it was in the same place 200 or even 400 years ago? They had more freedom then, people worked for themself independently instead of slaving for companies, they had plenty of space, fresh air, calm cities, relative cleanliness and so fourth..
Click to expand...

You know nothing about historical conditions, do you? 200 years ago people were lucky to live to be 40. The average person was lucky to eat. Human excrement was piled in the streets. Coal was burned at an outstanding level for heat, causing the smog that London was so famous for.

As for working for themselves, farmers in England worked at the sufferance of rich land owners. The Industrial revolution led to children as young as 5 working 16 hour days for almost no pay simply so their family could afford to have one meal a day.

City calm? Muggings, murder, and rape were the norm.

Max, you have no idea what you're talking about.
 
Maximus Zeebra said:
Polluted drinking water, polluted air, noisy cities, dangerous cities just to mention a few.. Life has become very predictable for most the people in the western world, some would view this as the most negative factor of our development, in the past people was free in a very different ways.
Click to expand...

I'd hate to beat a deab horse but you have no idea what you're talking about. I guess it's just one more addition to the "Things Maximus Zeebra Doesn't Understand" thread. In what modern country is drinking water polluted? How are cities more dangerous now than than even 50 years ago?

As for life being predictable, if by predictable the average person can expect to live past 40 you're right. If you mean that the average person can expect to have a home, you're right again. If the average person can expect to eat three meals a day, bingo.

Explain to me how people were more free 200 years ago than they are now. I bet you can't come up with one credible example.
 
Maximus Zeebra said:
Its pathetic to see the direction the world is taking and the worst of it has happened during Americas "watch"..
Click to expand...
Aside from the extraordinary lack of perspective...

If not for the United States and its 'watch', you would be speaking Russian right now.
 
RightOfCenter said:
You know nothing about historical conditions, do you? 200 years ago people were lucky to live to be 40. The average person was lucky to eat. Human excrement was piled in the streets. Coal was burned at an outstanding level for heat, causing the smog that London was so famous for.

As for working for themselves, farmers in England worked at the sufferance of rich land owners. The Industrial revolution led to children as young as 5 working 16 hour days for almost no pay simply so their family could afford to have one meal a day.

City calm? Muggings, murder, and rape were the norm.

Max, you have no idea what you're talking about.
Click to expand...

True true true, you busted me here.. What I really meant to say was that life was completely different, and that life isnt necessarily better now... That life could be far more comfortable and advantureous in the past, and are way to predictable now.. I am saying also that the world now, isnt all that great, for most people it actually sucks big time, even in the rich world.. People in the US for example work all the time and have no hollidays(almost), but they can afford things, is that happiness? Is that much better than the past?

Many things were better before, many things are better now.. I am sim ply trying ti raise the possibility that things arent actually that much better now.. And in my opinions, most cities in the west are trashy, noisy, awful and horrible, and most people live in cities.. Just raising some points, but you are right in everything you said even so..
 
RightOfCenter said:
I'd hate to beat a deab horse but you have no idea what you're talking about. I guess it's just one more addition to the "Things Maximus Zeebra Doesn't Understand" thread. In what modern country is drinking water polluted? How are cities more dangerous now than than even 50 years ago?

As for life being predictable, if by predictable the average person can expect to live past 40 you're right. If you mean that the average person can expect to have a home, you're right again. If the average person can expect to eat three meals a day, bingo.

Explain to me how people were more free 200 years ago than they are now. I bet you can't come up with one credible example.
Click to expand...

At least in Europe, you will die if you drink river water, or suffer horribly.. The air in cities are horrible... CARS? That is how it is more dangerous and noisy... I hate noise.. Do you like noise?

People had homes and food hundreds of years ago also..


About the freedom, it always depends on how you define freedoms... Economic freedom is one thing, but being stuck in a western lifestyle is an opposit thing... Being able to go on adventures and take risks was much more common in the old days than now, I consider that a freedom, to experience unpredictable adventures for youself rather than on TV... Things like this... It all depends how freedom is defined..


edit. in the end, humans arent created to sit on a chair in an office and watch a screen all day, like most people do in the "free" west.
 
Last edited:
Goobieman said:
Aside from the extraordinary lack of perspective...

If not for the United States and its 'watch', you would be speaking Russian right now.
Click to expand...

Many Russians are hyper intelligent, and their language sounds far more intelligent than English for example.. I would love to be able to speak Russian..
 
Maximus Zeebra said:
True true true, you busted me here.. What I really meant to say was that life was completely different, and that life isnt necessarily better now... That life could be far more comfortable and advantureous in the past, and are way to predictable now.. I am saying also that the world now, isnt all that great, for most people it actually sucks big time, even in the rich world.. People in the US for example work all the time and have no hollidays(almost), but they can afford things, is that happiness? Is that much better than the past?
Click to expand...
I don't know where the hell you get this idea that things were more adventurous in the past. Almost no one except for the very rich traveled more than 5 miles away from the place of their birth? Adventurous? Hardly. Unpredictable? Every person knew they would go up to work the same ****ty job that their father did and hoped that maybe 1 of the 17 children they had would make it past age 5.

Yes the world may suck right now, but this suck is 10000 times better than the suck 200 years ago.

Many things were better before, many things are better now.. I am sim ply trying ti raise the possibility that things arent actually that much better now.. And in my opinions, most cities in the west are trashy, noisy, awful and horrible, and most people live in cities.. Just raising some points, but you are right in everything you said even so..
Click to expand...

What was better? Name one thing that was better! City life is horrible now, but it was, once again 10000 more horrible 200 years ago.

You're clinging to a ridiculously romanticized notion of the past. Women, blacks, and white men who owned no property had absolutely no say in the running of their government. They lived on the subsistence of the bread they could get per day and were lucky to have more than one or two children live into adulthood. You're trying to raise a possibility that was dead before it got off the ground.
 
Maximus Zeebra said:
At least in Europe, you will die if you drink river water, or suffer horribly.. The air in cities are horrible... CARS? That is how it is more dangerous and noisy... I hate noise.. Do you like noise?
Click to expand...
What the hell are they doing drinking out of a river in this day and age? And even in the past rivers were a customary place to dump trash and feces. No wonder everyone died of typhus. And I'd prefer noise to piles of **** standing sitting on my doorstep.

People had homes and food hundreds of years ago also..
Click to expand...
People shared a living room with their farm animals hundreds of years ago.

About the freedom, it always depends on how you define freedoms... Economic freedom is one thing, but being stuck in a western lifestyle is an opposit thing... Being able to go on adventures and take risks was much more common in the old days than now, I consider that a freedom, to experience unpredictable adventures for youself rather than on TV... Things like this... It all depends how freedom is defined..
Click to expand...
No one went on adventures! Put down the fantasy books, Frodo! Only a very small minority of people travelled more than 5 or 10 miles away from the place of their birth!


edit. in the end, humans arent created to sit on a chair in an office and watch a screen all day, like most people do in the "free" west.
Click to expand...

Go to Somalia. Ask someone if they would like to trade. I guarantee they would.
 
RightOfCenter said:
I don't know where the hell you get this idea that things were more adventurous in the past. Almost no one except for the very rich traveled more than 5 miles away from the place of their birth? Adventurous? Hardly. Unpredictable? Every person knew they would go up to work the same ****ty job that their father did and hoped that maybe 1 of the 17 children they had would make it past age 5.

Yes the world may suck right now, but this suck is 10000 times better than the suck 200 years ago.



What was better? Name one thing that was better! City life is horrible now, but it was, once again 10000 more horrible 200 years ago.

You're clinging to a ridiculously romanticized notion of the past. Women, blacks, and white men who owned no property had absolutely no say in the running of their government. They lived on the subsistence of the bread they could get per day and were lucky to have more than one or two children live into adulthood. You're trying to raise a possibility that was dead before it got off the ground.
Click to expand...

I guess urbanization is the reason my opinion is like this.. Personally I prefer the countryside in most ways to cities, but I live in cities mostly. Even so, most people used to live in rural areas before while most live in urban areas now... Aside from this there are 6 billion people to share the world resources now, compared with only 800 million in 1800... IN Europe the population has about doubled in that time and increased squalor, while the population in the US and the people sharing land and resources in North America have increased from 7 million at that time to 400 million now.. Increasing population is in my opinion a bad thing...

I would love for the population in Europe to decrease like people predict from now until 2050, nothing would increase living standards more than that...?...?..
 
RightOfCenter said:
What the hell are they doing drinking out of a river in this day and age? And even in the past rivers were a customary place to dump trash and feces. No wonder everyone died of typhus. And I'd prefer noise to piles of **** standing sitting on my doorstep.


People shared a living room with their farm animals hundreds of years ago.


No one went on adventures! Put down the fantasy books, Frodo! Only a very small minority of people travelled more than 5 or 10 miles away from the place of their birth!




Go to Somalia. Ask someone if they would like to trade. I guarantee they would.
Click to expand...

I agree with you yes, but in Europe life was quite prosperous hundreds of years ago..
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom