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Bill Cosby?

I Bill Cosby Guilty?

  • No...we will need to hear from at least 50 accusers.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Yes...He was a serial rapist.

    Votes: 16 45.7%

  • Maybe...but we need a trial.

    Votes: 13 37.1%

  • Other...this is why.

    Votes: 7 20.0%
  • Total voters
    35
DiAnna said:
Since he cannot be tried for any of the allegations criminally (statute of limitations), each of us must base our opinions on the evidence we've seen. I'm convinced, based on the number of allegations, the description of those allegations, and his own damning words in the deposition that IMO yes, he is a serial sex abuser who has drugged and raped uncountable women over decades.
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What's truly amazing is that his wife is still "with" him. :shock:

She must be all kinds of bat-feces crazy and three ways 'til Sunday.
 
Other here is why, in the end it won't matter. Bill Cosby has done to much good otherwise for it to matter. When he passes away people won't talk about this, they will talk about the great that he has done in the world.
 
OrphanSlug said:
I have no idea if he is guilty or not, but the number of accusers is rather lengthy with roughly the same MO discussed. Being drugged and then sexually assaulted. The number of accusers is well into the 40 range somewhere.

Just too problematic to suggest "the general public" should accept he is guilty. Seems to sidestep an important part of the process, the courts.
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THat's how the court works whether he goes to jail or not.... Just because you ar not guilty it the eyes of the law DOES NOT mean you didnt do it... all it means is that they could not give enough evidence(that was allowed to be put forth) to convict him beyond reasonable doubt.


So you are aloud to think whether he did it or not.... whether he is a criminal(One who has committed a crime that can be proven in the court of law) or not IS something to refrain from judgement.
 
celticwar17 said:
THat's how the court works whether he goes to jail or not.... Just because you ar not guilty it the eyes of the law DOES NOT mean you didnt do it... all it means is that they could not give enough evidence(that was allowed to be put forth) to convict him beyond reasonable doubt.

So you are aloud to think whether he did it or not.... whether he is a criminal(One who has committed a crime that can be proven in the court of law) or not IS something to refrain from judgement.
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Probably the only fallback that is left, civil courts?
 
tecoyah said:
Can we all (as in the general public) accept that Bill Cosby is guilty of sexual assault?
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Absolutely not.

It's irrelevant how many "accusers" he might have.

Until we've allowed the rule of law to preside, until he's been indicted and confronted by his accusers in a court of law, until he's had opportunity to confront his accusers and defend himself in a court of law, any "acceptance" of any supposed guilt of his is fundamentally, legally, constitutionally, and morally wrong.

And frankly, that anyone would dare presume his guilt before any of the above is a travesty for all of us.

In the United States of America, every citizen is - under the Constitution - to be considered innocent until proven guilty - and that in a court of law, not in some sham court of public opinion. If you think he's guilty, the burden of proof is on you to prove it - in a court of law. Until then, keep your opinions to yourself and pray you don't fall victim yourself someday to someone's public, arbitrary indictment of you.
 
Well, although he's admitted he procured drugs for use by his "dates," he also stated they were aware at the time and were willing participants.

I think it is more likely than not he is guilty of at least some of the accusations from unwilling participants, but I still believe everyone deserves a fair trial.

I do not believe in trial by court of public opinion.
 
OrphanSlug said:
I have no idea if he is guilty or not, but the number of accusers is rather lengthy with roughly the same MO discussed. Being drugged and then sexually assaulted. The number of accusers is well into the 40 range somewhere.

Just too problematic to suggest "the general public" should accept he is guilty. Seems to sidestep an important part of the process, the courts.
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Yes pretty much this. I don't know if he is guilty, I wan't there but with the amount of accusers it seems that way. As for public opinion, I'm of the opinion I don't care what public opinion is. If he goes to trail and is found guilty though he should spend the rest of his life in jail.
 
JohnWOlin said:
Other here is why, in the end it won't matter. Bill Cosby has done to much good otherwise for it to matter. When he passes away people won't talk about this, they will talk about the great that he has done in the world.
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These kind of statements are the stuff that crazy women base the bull**** "rape culture" statements on. There really are a sector of people who will ignore the fact that a person is a rapist because he made a few PSAs in the 80s. They're not many, but they exist and it's a damn shame.
 
tecoyah said:
Can we all (as in the general public) accept that Bill Cosby is guilty of sexual assault?
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I don;t know how "guilty" he is. By that I mean, there were swingin' times in those days: he did a bit on Spanish Fly, which now makes a lot of sense given what's been going on with him, but - a rapist? or a "stealer' in that sense? I dunno. I idolized him and as a kid memorized his stuff. I'm having a lot of trouble coming to grips with a hero who as not heroic.

My question is; are these women REALLY victims? or are they suddenly jumping on the band wagon as it were. I can easily believe, that Cosby got gals stoned and then into bed; nothing new there, but some sort of "House of Wax" character pseudo raping innocent women because he couldn't get it any other way, or because he's some sort of sadist... is just a reeeeaal stretch for me.

He's guilty of something, but I'm not sure about what it is.
 
Hatuey said:
These kind of statements are the stuff that crazy women base the bull**** "rape culture" statements on. There really are a sector of people who will ignore the fact that a person is a rapist because he made a few PSAs in the 80s. They're not many, but they exist and it's a damn shame.
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Are you serious? This man has done more good in his life than all of us could ever hope for and you want to bring him down for something that really in comparison, amounts to horse ****. You aren't even half the man this guy is, and you could never hope to amount to more than half of what he is. Like I said, when he dies everyone will forget about it so for now, let all these women that all came out at the same time (conveniently) say what they want to say.
 
JohnWOlin said:
Other here is why, in the end it won't matter. Bill Cosby has done to much good otherwise for it to matter. When he passes away people won't talk about this, they will talk about the great that he has done in the world.
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Maybe I'm more cynical. I completely disagree regarding what people will remember. I do agree that Cosby has done a lot of good, and that's a big part of why this saddens me so much, because I feel all the good he has done will now be forgotten and replaced with this.

Not saying he doesn't deserve this legacy as well, just that his good aspects will be completely overshadowed.
 
JohnWOlin said:
Are you serious? This man has done more good in his life than all of us could ever hope for and you want to bring him down for something that really in comparison, amounts to horse ****. You aren't even half the man this guy is, and you could never hope to amount to more than half of what he is. Like I said, when he dies everyone will forget about it so for now, let all these women that all came out at the same time (conveniently) say what they want to say.
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Lol utter nonsense, giving money away does not absolve anyone from being a serial rapist. And no raping women is not "horse****" that goes away if you give enough to some charity. Believing that it is does is exactly what allows people to claim that 'rape culture' is a thing.
 
OrphanSlug said:
Probably the only fallback that is left, civil courts?
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Blackmail was the first alternative of the victims. Several did this and got away with some cash money.

I guess those would could not get blackmail money then went public with their accusations, which is what the blackmail was supposed to prevent.

Now that there is a chorus of accusations, the issue then becomes statute of limitation.

It seems to me that by now the evidence is so degraded that criminal prosecution (by the state for crimes against the state) and civil prosecution (for torts against individuals) based on statue of limitations is impossible.

Cosby's reputation has now been destroyed, and not too many if any people are coming to laugh at his jokes, like the one about the lady who got zonked by the drink he fixed her.
 
Hatuey said:
Lol utter nonsense, giving money away does not absolve anyone from being a serial rapist. And no raping women is not "horse****" that goes away if you give enough to some charity. Believing that it is does is exactly what allows people to claim that 'rape culture' is a thing.
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If not for the statute of limitations, I suppose a good prosecuting attorney could make hay out of Cosby paying off blackmailers to cover his crimes.
 
I think he probably did horrible to women without their consent but "legally" guilty requires due process.

A really messed up reality when it comes to situations like this is the innocent will likely pay part of the penalty. The statute of limitations has probably run out so the alleged victims only recourse is monetary damages in civil court/settlement, which I support by the way. Who pays? Cosby is going on 80 so its not likely he'll be able to enjoy his wealth very much for his few remaining years. Its raiding the inheritances of his innocent kids and grand-kids.
 
Smeagol said:
I think he probably did horrible to women without their consent but "legally" guilty requires due process.

A really messed up reality when it comes to situations like this is the innocent will likely pay part of the penalty. The statute of limitations has probably run out so the alleged victims only recourse is monetary damages in civil court/settlement, which I support by the way. Who pays? Cosby is going on 80 so its not likely he'll be able to enjoy his wealth very much for his few remaining years. Its raiding the inheritances of his innocent kids and grand-kids.
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But if he truly is guilty it could be legitimately argued that said inheritances weren't their's anyway. We often forget that an inheritance is what's left AFTER affairs of the estate have been settled. Just part of his life's expenses, so to speak.
 
While the government is beholden to what a jury says, I am not. The bastard is a rapist.
 
tecoyah said:
Can we all (as in the general public) accept that Bill Cosby is guilty of sexual assault?
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Why? Where is the surprise?
 
Dragonfly said:
Bill Cosby was assuredly part of my childhood. My parents had at least 5 of his comedy albums and we'd listen to those records and laugh until our sides hurt.

I absolutely HATE thinking he's a serial rapist, but there's so much smoke filling the room that it's hard to not see that something has been burning for quite some time.

A trial would be the last nail in the coffin.

In my opinion, he's guilty. There's no way all these women are lying. One or two might be jumping on the bandwagon, but not all of them.
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So, what we learn is that he was a funny rapist.
 
OrphanSlug said:
I have no idea if he is guilty or not, but the number of accusers is rather lengthy with roughly the same MO discussed. Being drugged and then sexually assaulted. The number of accusers is well into the 40 range somewhere.

Just too problematic to suggest "the general public" should accept he is guilty. Seems to sidestep an important part of the process, the courts.
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I would think that it was up to the courts and I would expect them to do their duty. It would be sad, if they didn't.
But beyond that? Where is the surprise factor? People are funny and the same ones can be nasty customers tooo.
 
JohnWOlin said:
Are you serious? This man has done more good in his life than all of us could ever hope for and you want to bring him down for something that really in comparison, amounts to horse ****. You aren't even half the man this guy is, and you could never hope to amount to more than half of what he is. Like I said, when he dies everyone will forget about it so for now, let all these women that all came out at the same time (conveniently) say what they want to say.
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So, you are saying that if someone does a lot of good, one should just forget that they are a rapist? No, I'm sorry, that is a really dumb thing to say. One must consider BOTH things when considering someone's legacy.
 
BrewerBob said:
While the government is beholden to what a jury says, I am not. The bastard is a rapist.
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Well, then maybe each of us should set up our own courts, play our own judge, prosecutor and jury, convict him, judge him by whatever "law" it is that governs our opinions, and lock him up for however long it is whatever law that is allows.

...and then hope no one ever decides to accuse us of something publicly and force us to face a similar system of "justice."

FWIW, he may be guilty. But we don't really know one way or the other. He's not been indicted - save publicly, and that primarily because of his celebrity and because of an ever growing number of women who seem to want to jump on to the bandwagon with allegations of abuses that allegedly occurred as much as 4 decades ago.

The only "trial" he's undergone is that of public opinion - one of, if not the most fickle things on earth - and one which, being thoroughly subjective, is as often wrong as it is right. Public opinion is something by which I daresay none of us would like to be judged - and certainly not something any of us would like incorporated into our legal system to be judged by therein.

For that reason (among many others), public opinion is NOT the basis of our rule of law - and we should thank everything in the universe that's good for that.
 
Hatuey said:
Lol utter nonsense, giving money away does not absolve anyone from being a serial rapist. And no raping women is not "horse****" that goes away if you give enough to some charity. Believing that it is does is exactly what allows people to claim that 'rape culture' is a thing.
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I never said anything about him giving to charity, I'm talking about the man giving himself to the people as an incredible entertainer and educator, someone that helped break down barriers, and influenced several prominent black actors and educators, as well as several educational shows, cartoons, and entertainment in general. As I said in the end it won't matter what a couple of girls claimed he did. What will matter is the rest of his legacy, and I'd bet on it.
 
JohnWOlin said:
I never said anything about him giving to charity, I'm talking about the man giving himself to the people as an incredible entertainer and educator, someone that helped break down barriers, and influenced several prominent black actors and educators, as well as several educational shows, cartoons, and entertainment in general. As I said in the end it won't matter what a couple of girls claimed he did. What will matter is the rest of his legacy, and I'd bet on it.
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I think the point of my post went way over your head. However, it's not hard to see why given your ridiculous position on this issue. What difference is there exactly between giving tons of money to charities and being an educator? None really. Both are considered "good" in our society. So if Bill Cosby had given 70 million dollars to charity would that have made it easier to ignore the rape allegations? No.

That said, priests had the same role he did for 1000+ years and that hasn't stopped anybody from discussing the really ****ty things they did to 10,000s of kids in different countries. So what are we left with? You basically trying to do exactly what is expected of the supposedly stereotypical rape apologist. Simply saying some generic version of "well, he did a lot of good things." doesn't really mean anything. Even serial killers do good things from time to time.

Look, you said something patently absurd to any grown man with women in his family. Ignoring that Bill Cosby was a serial rapist because he was in show business making money while pretending to be a wholesome father figure is ridiculous.
 
JohnWOlin said:
I never said anything about him giving to charity, I'm talking about the man giving himself to the people as an incredible entertainer and educator, someone that helped break down barriers, and influenced several prominent black actors and educators, as well as several educational shows, cartoons, and entertainment in general. As I said in the end it won't matter what a couple of girls claimed he did. What will matter is the rest of his legacy, and I'd bet on it.
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No amount of charity can forgive the man using his position to prey on unsuspecting, and in many cases, trusting women.

It's not couple of women. It's now 50. Here are the stories of 35 of them.

http://nymag.com/thecut/2015/07/bill-cosbys-accusers-speak-out.html

He was a predator, seeking out vulnerable women, using the reputation you think so highly of, to get close to them and then drug and rape them. Of course they didn't speak up after it happened, just for the reasons you cite it will eventually blow over. "He's Bill Cosby." What young or striving actress, model, game starter in Vegas, could stand up to his reputation?

For the record, Cosby was a"hero" of mine from childhood. My dad owned his comedy records and played them for us. I also remember and loved his first sitcom:

The Bill Cosby Show (TV Series 1969?1971) - IMDb

I never missed an episode of his 80's sitcom and appreciated it for the ground breaking show it was. I am devastated by his disgusting predations on women and it will forever tarnish a man I greatly admired.
 
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