View Poll Results: Do Cops accounts of witnessless shootings deserve the benefit of the doubt?

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Thread: Do Cops accounts of witnessless shootings deserve the benefit of the doubt?

  1. #1
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    Do Cops accounts of witnessless shootings deserve the benefit of the doubt?

    These cases blow me away - not because they reveal something about cops that I didn't already suspect but that it's a rare glimpse at the extreme lengths cops will go to cover their tracks.





    Second Video without Commentary -



    Here is Sean Groubert's, the officer in second video, statement about what happened and why he shot. Compare his statement to the events depicted in the video.

    I pulled him over for a seat belt violation, Before I could event get out of my car he jumped out, stared at me, and as I jumped out of my car and identified myself, as I approached him, he jumped head-first back into his car."

    "I started retracting back towards the rear of his vehicle telling him 'Look, get out of the car, let me see your hands. He jumped out of the car. I saw something black in his hands. I ran to the other side car yelling at him, and he kept coming towards me. Apparently it was his wallet."
    http://www.wltx.com/story/news/local...ones/16295527/


    So here on the forums we have discussed at length the shootings of quite few black men. Without fail someone jumps to the defense of the cops involved using the Cop's account of the situation as their defense. These rare incedences where a conspiracy executed by cops to tamper with evidence and fabricate a story caught on camera, at least from my vantage point, make such blind faith in the words of law enforcement a tad foolhardy.

    In this first video the hidden dash cam tape reveals officers beating the man who has his hands raised and screaming "Don't touch my gun" <--- the default defense, is it not? "He reached for my gun that's why I killed him." Except here we have irrefutable evidence that despite the officers clear insistance that the man reached for his gun he in fact did not.

    The same happens in the second video.

    So when a cop kills someone and the circumstances seem dubious - is it wise to put some much faith in the officers account of what happened?
    Last edited by Zinthaniel; 07-10-15 at 08:50 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    In my own experience here, people seem to ignore a posters professional experience or training if the app pro holds a view that is disagreed with.

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    Re: Do Cops accounts of witnessless shootings deserve the benefit of the doubt?

    depends on the circumstances, if there is no evidence to suggest other wise we are going to have to believe the officer.

    Or that is how it is in the Netherlands, because the police officer has to file a sworn statement, that carries a bit more weight that a suspect saying the opposite. The officer is swearing on his oath as a police officer. Now if there is evidence to seriously suggest that the officer lied, then this has to weigh massively against the officer if he did this to cover up something.

    Firing such an officer and prosecuting should be a no-brainer for the prosecution.
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    Re: Do Cops accounts of witnessless shootings deserve the benefit of the doubt?

    I'm done with the idea that officers get the benefit off the doubt where everyone else is suspect as a matter of policy and habit.
    "Every time something really bad happens, people cry out for safety, and the government answers by taking rights away from good people." - Penn Jillette.

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    Re: Do Cops accounts of witnessless shootings deserve the benefit of the doubt?

    The exact same weight that any citizen's unsupported word is given.

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    Re: Do Cops accounts of witnessless shootings deserve the benefit of the doubt?

    I'm with posts 3 & 4.

    I grew-up in a city & a neighborhood that had more than it's share of dirty cops, and because of this I don't give any more weight to an officer's testimony than any other citizen's.

    Which is a real shame to all those hard-working good cops that put their lives on-the-line every-time they go off to work. But to them, I say:

    "Bust down the 'Blue Wall of Silence', and exorcise yourselves from your fellow dirty associates, because until you do, I can't give you the 'benefit of doubt' you so deserve"!
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    Re: Do Cops accounts of witnessless shootings deserve the benefit of the doubt?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chomsky View Post
    I'm with posts 3 & 4.

    I grew-up in a city & a neighborhood that had more than it's share of dirty cops, and because of this I don't give any more weight to an officer's testimony than any other citizen's.

    Which is a real shame to all those hard-working good cops that put their lives on-the-line every-time they go off to work. But to them, I say:

    "Bust down the 'Blue Wall of Silence', and exorcise yourselves from your fellow dirty associates, because until you do, I can't give you the 'benefit of doubt' you so deserve"!



    Yeah. I'm former LE and I don't give a cop's word any more weight than the word of any other stranger. Known too many.


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    Re: Do Cops accounts of witnessless shootings deserve the benefit of the doubt?

    Sometimes one may alter the facts to CYA.

    But often one's account is subjective based on past experiences and preconceived opinions.

    It is like watching a pro boxing match and listen to the three judges give their scores at the end of the match. Sometimes the scores are close and sometimes you have to wonder if they were watching different matches.

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    Re: Do Cops accounts of witnessless shootings deserve the benefit of the doubt?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Yeah. I'm former LE and I don't give a cop's word any more weight than the word of any other stranger. Known too many.


    Badge is no guarantee of character.
    As a former LEO, you may take an interest in my former local neighborhood commander & his crew, whose local area headquarters was just a few blocks down from our two-flat where my family lived.

    The crazy thing is: as dirty as these guys were (and they were far, far, far beyond the pale), my working-class neighborhood of city workers, cops, and firemen were standing behind these guys! We were a deteriorating blue-collar neighborhood filled with xenophobic European immigrants willing to do anything to separate ourselves from what can best be described as 'an African-American ghetto filled with housing projects' to the east, and 'a violent drug-ridden Mexican barrio' to the North. Even until today, the Mexican neighborhood is the top destination in the nation for narcotics brought-in from Mexico, and the African-American neighborhood is still the top gang-shooting zip-code in the U.S.

    We were amongst some tough company.

    Consequently, the attitude for most in our neighborhood was: "If Commander Burge says he got the guys that came into our neighborhood and did *that*, then it's good enough for me - and all the better they were found in an alley with slugs in their backs than wasting our tax money to go to court! [*that* - being whatever criminal 'trespass' incident was currently hot on the minds of those in the neighborhood]

    Obviously, in a neighborhood like this, drugs, gambling, prostitution, and after-hours drinking were tolerated, as long as "the guys in the '9th'" were in on it.

    And in on it, they were.

    Wikipedia - 'Commander Jon Burge'
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    Re: Do Cops accounts of witnessless shootings deserve the benefit of the doubt?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chomsky View Post
    As a former LEO, you may take an interest in my former local neighborhood commander & his crew, whose local area headquarters was just a few blocks down from our two-flat where my family lived.

    The crazy thing is: as dirty as these guys were (and they were far, far, far beyond the pale), my working-class neighborhood of city workers, cops, and firemen were standing behind these guys! We were a deteriorating blue-collar neighborhood filled with xenophobic European immigrants willing to do anything to separate ourselves from what can best be described as 'an African-American ghetto filled with housing projects' to the east, and 'a violent drug-ridden Mexican barrio' to the North. Even until today, the Mexican neighborhood is the top destination in the nation for narcotics brought-in from Mexico, and the African-American neighborhood is still the top gang-shooting zip-code in the U.S.

    We were amongst some tough company.

    Consequently, the attitude for most in our neighborhood was: "If Commander Burge says he got the guys that came into our neighborhood and did *that*, then it's good enough for me - and all the better they were found in an alley with slugs in their backs than wasting our tax money to go to court! [*that* - being whatever criminal 'trespass' incident was currently hot on the minds of those in the neighborhood]

    Obviously, in a neighborhood like this, drugs, gambling, prostitution, and after-hours drinking were tolerated, as long as "the guys in the '9th'" were in on it.

    And in on it, they were.

    Wikipedia - 'Commander Jon Burge'


    Yeah, people are funny creatures. We're still a lot more tribal, mentally and emotionally, than we like to admit. When we feel threatened by "outsiders" we tend to go all shoulder-to-shoulder with any we see as "our own" especially if they are "protecting us from THEM." It's amazing what people will accept under such circumstances.

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
    Carthago Delenda Est
    "I used to roll the dice; see the fear in my enemies' eyes... listen as the crowd would sing, 'now the old king is dead, Long Live the King.'.."

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    Re: Do Cops accounts of witnessless shootings deserve the benefit of the doubt?

    The vast majority of cops are dirty. That's why police unions across the nation refuse to install body cams. You can even see on that first video how cops are well practiced to repeatedly say "stop resisting...stop reaching for my gun" so that they can pre-emptively justify shooting unarmed people if they're in the mood to get some paid vacation time.
    Quote Originally Posted by reinoe View Post
    Blacks aren't committing more crime. That's the point. They use drugs at similar rates yet they get harsher sentences and more convictions.
    Quote Originally Posted by CalGun View Post
    I disagree. Just because their drug usage may be no different does not mean their propensity to commit crime is the same or equal.

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