View Poll Results: should civil marriage be aboloshed in favor of holy matrimony only?

Voters
35. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, because it will stop gay marriage

    0 0%
  • Yes, because everybody in the US should be part of a religion

    0 0%
  • Yes, because most people in the US do not want there to be gay marriage

    0 0%
  • Yes, because there should never have been civil marriage in the first place

    6 17.14%
  • No, because gays can also get married in some churches

    8 22.86%
  • No, because people should be free to also have no religion and be able to marry

    26 74.29%
  • No, because most people support gay marriage

    9 25.71%
  • No, because it is right that there is something like civil marriage

    11 31.43%
  • I don't care, I am already married and I do not plan to re-marry

    0 0%
  • I am unmarried and will never marry, I hate being shackled to some man/woman

    0 0%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: Republican Steve King wants an abolish civil marriage in the United States

  1. #201
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    Re: Republican Steve King wants an abolish civil marriage in the United States

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Nuclear families have never been shown to be the only families that benefit society. It could easily be argued that extended families benefit society just as well, if not more, than nuclear families due to they usually involve multiple family members taking in other family members, who then don't cost society money to care for (or as much money to care for).
    well, there ya go... no reason for the govt to be in the marriage business then.

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    Re: Republican Steve King wants an abolish civil marriage in the United States

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    well, there ya go... no reason for the govt to be in the marriage business then.
    There is plenty of reasons for government to still be there though. The recognition of the families is still relevant, even if it isn't just nuclear families being recognized as legally kin.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Republican Steve King wants an abolish civil marriage in the United States

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Then why would they not take such things into consideration before they got married? If they didn't take considerations about their future spouse into mind then, before the marriage, such as what job skills, education, and whether they have a job or not before they got married, then isn't that a bad decision on their part?
    It doesn't even matter. If she stays at home is still not grounds to divorce her.

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    Re: Republican Steve King wants an abolish civil marriage in the United States

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    It doesn't even matter. If she stays at home is still not grounds to divorce her.
    It matters in your argument being that it is her bad decision, yet factors such as education, having a job before, job skills they have, what was done for the family, and many other things are things that the court takes into account when deciding on alimony, whether it should be paid, and that would be things that the other person (husband or wife) should have known about, at least to a degree, before getting married to that person. Is it not a bad decision for a woman to marry a man or woman without a job or any education or job skills? Why would the same not be true for a man?
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Republican Steve King wants an abolish civil marriage in the United States

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    It matters in your argument being that it is her bad decision, yet factors such as education, having a job before, job skills they have, what was done for the family, and many other things are things that the court takes into account when deciding on alimony, whether it should be paid, and that would be things that the other person (husband or wife) should have known about, at least to a degree, before getting married to that person. Is it not a bad decision for a woman to marry a man or woman without a job or any education or job skills? Why would the same not be true for a man?
    You're really better than this Rogue. Not only do people change their minds about wanting children, but they change their minds about staying at home and this can and does happen after they are married. Regardless, the idea he agreed to it because he didn't divorce her when she decided to stay at home is asinine. What kind of man is just going to pull the trigger when she decides to stay at home? It's really not that big of a deal when all is said and done.
    Last edited by Henrin; 07-03-15 at 07:51 PM.

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    Re: Republican Steve King wants an abolish civil marriage in the United States

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    You're really better than this Rogue. Not only do people change their minds about wanting children, but they change their minds about staying at home and this can and does happen after they are married. Regardless, the idea he agreed to it because he didn't divorce her when she decided to stay at home is asinine. What kind of man is just going to pull the trigger when she decided to stay at home? It's really not that big of a deal when all is said and done.
    The kind of man who doesn't want to later take responsibility for her not getting/having relevant job skills and/or education, and/or job experience that would leave him paying alimony for choosing the woman he did. Alimony is not something that is paid lightly. It is rarely a part of divorce at all nowdays. When it is, it is for good cause. Generally it is because the decision was mutually made for one person to stay home while the other worked.

    There are alternatives to paying alimony, such as not leaving a spouse you know will get alimony. If you aren't going to leave because she/he won't get a job, then why would you leave later for other reasons and not expect to pay alimony? If it is something they did, then that should be taken into account when it comes to whether they get alimony and how much. But being the sole moneymaker in a relationship has advantages, advantages that can cause a big power differential in the relationship, and lead to abuse (not all abuse is physical).
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  7. #207
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    Re: Republican Steve King wants an abolish civil marriage in the United States

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Then what is the problem with those things? I'm really confused now. We have ways to set up relationships, via marriage licenses, adoption contracts/records, and birth certificates (and in some limited cases court paperwork), and other relationships stem from these papers. But I don't see what the issue is if you are saying we should have these but the government should stay out of these things. They are the ones that issue or approve these. You send the birth certificate information to the government (office of vital statistics) when your child is born. You go there to get a license, and either you or your officiant returns the license once it is signed and you get an official copy of either eventually (usually in the mail). That is it. The government then only uses the paperwork to check to ensure that you have the connections you claim to have via that official paperwork.
    There's no problem with them, unless they are only available, at no additional cost, to certain types of govt recognized relationships. I just pointed out that if the govt didnt, everyone could still just work it out...yes...at additional cost sometimes.

    Who says you are entitled more to those things, or to them free, if you are in a relationship and others...single or not in govt recognized relationships...arent?

    Right now, the govt says so.
    "Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free."

    "No, you'll be *a* judge of that, just like everyone else who reads it."
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    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: Republican Steve King wants an abolish civil marriage in the United States

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    There's no problem with them, unless they are only available, at no additional cost, to certain types of govt recognized relationships. I just pointed out that if the govt didnt, everyone could still just work it out...yes...at additional cost sometimes.

    Who says you are entitled more to those things, or to them free, if you are in a relationship and others...single or not in govt recognized relationships...arent?

    Right now, the govt says so.
    What more things are one group entitled to that others aren't? Single people by definition, are not two people. Most of the recognition is given to people for their marriage being recognized as two people instead of one, or where applicable, recognizing that those two people agreed to take on certain responsibilities and are joining their expenses, many to the point where they own things together, don't separate their money into "his and hers" or "his and his" or "hers and hers". Those things are relevant.

    And marriage is available to people cohabiting. If they aren't willing to take the responsibilities that come with marriage, then what is wrong with denying them the benefits? If someone isn't willing to join the military, should they still get the benefits military personnel get?
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Republican Steve King wants an abolish civil marriage in the United States

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Who said it had to be a woman who was the one to stay home, sacrificing good job experience so that someone was there to watch the children, take care of the house, while someone else worked to provide money for the family? Either spouse can get alimony. And either person would be sacrificing provable workforce experience, possibly an education in order to take care of the children, the household.
    Life is full of choices. Nobody held a gun to a housewifes head and forced her to be a housewife. It's a choice. And we live with consequences of the choices we make.

    Your argument makes about as much sense as if I were to say I should be compensated for the present value of all the dates I paid for and all the gifts I bought my wife...because I could have invested that money in stocks and received a return.

    It doesn't work that way.

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    Re: Republican Steve King wants an abolish civil marriage in the United States

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    There is plenty of reasons for government to still be there though. The recognition of the families is still relevant, even if it isn't just nuclear families being recognized as legally kin.
    what are these reasons?..
    I don't care about govt recognition... i'ts the policies that are relevant... recognizing marriage is useless symbolism.
    as it stands now, many are penalized by the tax code for being married, while many social program recipients are rewarded for being single.... sometimes they can't even get assistance if they are married.
    so ,yeah, i think we're beyond promoting marriage or family and well into promoting singlehood and breaking up families.... not in every case mind you, but far too many for the govt to be considered to be promoting families of any kind.
    our govt still sides with the mother when it comes to children, so it's not like they are interested in fathers as equals.. so it really can't be argued that our govt supports families anymore.... hell, they support public school more than parents when it comes to the children... so yeah... we might just be a lot better off without the kind of "support" they lend families of any kind.

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