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Thread: Drowning people out.

  1. #11
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    Re: Drowning people out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Would you consider drowning out people from being able to say something as a possible violation of someone's freedom of speech? For instance there was a time that Christians often drowned out the LGBT community in order to try and get them to shut up and as a way of intimidating them into submission.
    Wrong. Not only wrong, but dead wrong. Wrong as in "1+1=river".
    Our nation has not always lived up to its ideals, yet those ideals have never ceased to guide us. They expose our flaws, and lead us to mend them. We are the beneficiaries of the work of the generations before us and it is each generation's responsibility to continue that work. - Laura Bush

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    Re: Drowning people out.

    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
    Wrong. Not only wrong, but dead wrong. Wrong as in "1+1=river".
    You have to understand that when the discussion turns to "gay rights" the terms "disagree" and "drown out" become equivalent.

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    Re: Drowning people out.

    No but, when it happens, it sure pisses people off. Everyone want's their two cents to be heard.
    32 “Whoever acknowledges me before others, I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven. 33 But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.
    Matt. 10:32-33

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    Re: Drowning people out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    You have to understand that when the discussion turns to "gay rights" the terms "disagree" and "drown out" become equivalent.
    With the occasional death threat thrown in.

    Now there's a means of drowning people out!
    "Small people talk about people, average people talk about events, great people talk about ideas" Eleanor Roosevelt

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    Re: Drowning people out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Would you consider drowning out people from being able to say something as a possible violation of someone's freedom of speech? For instance there was a time that Christians often drowned out the LGBT community in order to try and get them to shut up and as a way of intimidating them into submission.
    The only entity that can violate your right to free speech is the government. If I'm shouting you down? I'm exercising MY right to free speech.


    Thank you, Quazi!

  6. #16
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    Re: Drowning people out.

    I've only actually spent a significant amount of time around a protest march/meeting on ONE occasion.

    That was at the Mall in D.C., during a war-protester march and a veteran's Gathering of Eagles counter-protest, where I was an Event Marshal and tasked with trying to keep the peace in coordination with the DC Park Police (a very professional organization that earned my deepest respect that day, btw).

    It was quite an education.

    On both sides, there were those who conducted themselves with dignity and restraint, and those who seemed flat damn determined to provoke someone into violence with extreme verbage and actions. Both sides seemed determined to drown each other out much of the time. There were an estimated 30,000 present, and it was a chaotic madhouse.

    This caused me to conclude that protests and counter-protests are NOT places where one may expect polite and civil debate, or even much reasonable behavior, out of either side. They seem to feed off each other and get more extreme as the clash goes on.

    To get to my point... where there have been instances of pro and anti SSM protests/counterprotests, I've no doubt there were uncivil acts on both sides, perhaps including people trying to drown each other out.

    However I would not attribute such behavior as a general norm for either side, since such encounters are so chaotic and uncivil by nature.

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
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    "I used to roll the dice; see the fear in my enemies' eyes... listen as the crowd would sing, 'now the old king is dead, Long Live the King.'.."

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    Re: Drowning people out.

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    The only entity that can violate your right to free speech is the government. If I'm shouting you down? I'm exercising MY right to free speech.

    You said it better than me.
    "Small people talk about people, average people talk about events, great people talk about ideas" Eleanor Roosevelt

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    Re: Drowning people out.

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    No, I don't see that as a violation. Eliminating them from making a speech another group opposes certainly is.

    For example, students storming a stage and grabbing the microphone of someone giving a speech in opposition to illegal immigration. That would be a clear violation.
    No, it wouldn't. It would be assault.


    Thank you, Quazi!

  9. #19
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    Re: Drowning people out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Would you consider drowning out people from being able to say something as a possible violation of someone's freedom of speech? For instance there was a time that Christians often drowned out the LGBT community in order to try and get them to shut up and as a way of intimidating them into submission.
    The way you have phrased this, no. That would mean the majority on some issue would have to see their Constitutional rights throttled in some way to handle fairness with the minority. It does not really even sound like something plausible to enforce, and would be a blatant violation of the Constitution anyway. I do not recall anything in the Founders writings talking about our rights this way, and even though they often warned of "factions" they did not specifically write all that much to deal with the pooling of like minded people into ideologies that end up a majority.
    "Every time something really bad happens, people cry out for safety, and the government answers by taking rights away from good people." - Penn Jillette.

  10. #20
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    Re: Drowning people out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    I've only actually spent a significant amount of time around a protest march/meeting on ONE occasion.

    That was at the Mall in D.C., during a war-protester march and a veteran's Gathering of Eagles counter-protest, where I was an Event Marshal and tasked with trying to keep the peace in coordination with the DC Park Police (a very professional organization that earned my deepest respect that day, btw).

    It was quite an education.

    On both sides, there were those who conducted themselves with dignity and restraint, and those who seemed flat damn determined to provoke someone into violence with extreme verbage and actions. Both sides seemed determined to drown each other out much of the time. There were an estimated 30,000 present, and it was a chaotic madhouse.

    This caused me to conclude that protests and counter-protests are NOT places where one may expect polite and civil debate, or even much reasonable behavior, out of either side. They seem to feed off each other and get more extreme as the clash goes on.

    To get to my point... where there have been instances of pro and anti SSM protests/counterprotests, I've no doubt there were uncivil acts on both sides, perhaps including people trying to drown each other out.

    However I would not attribute such behavior as a general norm for either side, since such encounters are so chaotic and uncivil by nature.
    You're such a diplomat I think I'm going to start calling you Kissinger.

    You are right though. Protests tend to bring out the crazies by the truckload and it certainly does work both ways. Basically it works out just as well in person as it does on any of the threads we see right here.

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