View Poll Results: Is SSM a "dead" issue, now?

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  • Yes, the issue is settled

    33 51.56%
  • No, there's lots yet to discuss/debate

    27 42.19%
  • Not sure

    2 3.13%
  • What's SSM?

    2 3.13%
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Thread: Is SSM a "dead" issue, now?

  1. #1
    Dungeon Master
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    Is SSM a "dead" issue, now?

    I think so. I think we now live in a world where SSM is no longer an issue and all arguments, pro and con, are now moot.

    Seriously, that's actually difficult to wrap my mind around. All the time and energy arguing about who is and isn't pro/anti SSM and why they are and are not is moot. Like the ruling or not, the issue has been settled and it will never go back. Continuing to dwell on it and argue it, especially on the anti-SSM side is pointless. You're just making yourselves miserable over something that most likely will have zero impact on your life. On the pro side, you have every right to celebrate, but maybe you could try to be happy rather than hateful. C'mon, it's supposed easy to be magnanimous when you win (and you have won).

    I, for one, look forward to all the furor settling down. Honestly, this issue felt a little like it tore me in two, understanding arguments on both sides and feeling that there are good hearted and sincere people on both sides, which was probably the most lonely position of all.

    Anyway, do you agree with me that once all the victory laps have been run and all the anger has subsided (and it will with time - it always does), this is essentially a dead issue?

    Now what are we gonna talk about?

    Getting a simple poll together and sorry about the weird font (I hope it's not huge) - that happens sometimes when I save something to my iPad then copy/paste it later.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ovid View Post
    I feel that it is objective, so that makes it objective.

  2. #2
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    Re: Is SSM a "dead" issue, now?

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    I think so. I think we now live in a world where SSM is no longer an issue and all arguments, pro and con, are now moot.

    Seriously, that's actually difficult to wrap my mind around. All the time and energy arguing about who is and isn't pro/anti SSM and why they are and are not is moot. Like the ruling or not, the issue has been settled and it will never go back. Continuing to dwell on it and argue it, especially on the anti-SSM side is pointless. You're just making yourselves miserable over something that most likely will have zero impact on your life. On the pro side, you have every right to celebrate, but maybe you could try to be happy rather than hateful. C'mon, it's supposed easy to be magnanimous when you win (and you have won).

    I, for one, look forward to all the furor settling down. Honestly, this issue felt a little like it tore me in two, understanding arguments on both sides and feeling that there are good hearted and sincere people on both sides, which was probably the most lonely position of all.

    Anyway, do you agree with me that once all the victory laps have been run and all the anger has subsided (and it will with time - it always does), this is essentially a dead issue?

    Now what are we gonna talk about?

    Getting a simple poll together and sorry about the weird font (I hope it's not huge) - that happens sometimes when I save something to my iPad then copy/paste it later.
    In the US. Maybe.

    In the rest of the world. Absolutely not.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Russia
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Uganda
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  3. #3
    Dungeon Master
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    Re: Is SSM a "dead" issue, now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nilly View Post
    Ah hell. We have to go on bickering and hating on each other because of Russia?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ovid View Post
    I feel that it is objective, so that makes it objective.

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    Re: Is SSM a "dead" issue, now?

    Certain states have already come out and said that they will not comply with, or will put up challenges to, the Supreme Court's ruling, so yes, it still is an issue even in this country. And it is most definitely an issue in many other countries.

    As far as LGBT rights in general, there's still a REALLY long way to go.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
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    Re: Is SSM a "dead" issue, now?

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    Ah hell. We have to go on bickering and hating on each other because of Russia?
    I think his point, in response to your question, is that SSM is far from a "dead" issue, especially internationally.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: Is SSM a "dead" issue, now?

    In the US and much of Western Europe it's a legally decided issue. Republicans will never be able to turn the Supreme Court ruling now that it already ruled once that SSM is a right. That officially makes it legally 99.99% impossible to undo (contrary to what some Republicans claim).

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    Re: Is SSM a "dead" issue, now?

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    I think so. I think we now live in a world where SSM is no longer an issue and all arguments, pro and con, are now moot.

    Seriously, that's actually difficult to wrap my mind around. All the time and energy arguing about who is and isn't pro/anti SSM and why they are and are not is moot. Like the ruling or not, the issue has been settled and it will never go back. Continuing to dwell on it and argue it, especially on the anti-SSM side is pointless. You're just making yourselves miserable over something that most likely will have zero impact on your life. On the pro side, you have every right to celebrate, but maybe you could try to be happy rather than hateful. C'mon, it's supposed easy to be magnanimous when you win (and you have won).

    I, for one, look forward to all the furor settling down. Honestly, this issue felt a little like it tore me in two, understanding arguments on both sides and feeling that there are good hearted and sincere people on both sides, which was probably the most lonely position of all.

    Anyway, do you agree with me that once all the victory laps have been run and all the anger has subsided (and it will with time - it always does), this is essentially a dead issue?

    Now what are we gonna talk about?

    Getting a simple poll together and sorry about the weird font (I hope it's not huge) - that happens sometimes when I save something to my iPad then copy/paste it later.
    I doubt it. Forcing people who conscientiously object to supporting crimes against their God is a rather drastic break with American tradition for which there are almost no precedents but in war. Here the reason for this intrusion on basic rights is not so persuasive.

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    Re: Is SSM a "dead" issue, now?

    I have every confidence that SSM will turn out to be an issue every bit as dead as the abortion issue has been post Roe v Wade.
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

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    Re: Is SSM a "dead" issue, now?

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    I think so. I think we now live in a world where SSM is no longer an issue and all arguments, pro and con, are now moot.

    Seriously, that's actually difficult to wrap my mind around. All the time and energy arguing about who is and isn't pro/anti SSM and why they are and are not is moot. Like the ruling or not, the issue has been settled and it will never go back. Continuing to dwell on it and argue it, especially on the anti-SSM side is pointless. You're just making yourselves miserable over something that most likely will have zero impact on your life. On the pro side, you have every right to celebrate, but maybe you could try to be happy rather than hateful. C'mon, it's supposed easy to be magnanimous when you win (and you have won).

    I, for one, look forward to all the furor settling down. Honestly, this issue felt a little like it tore me in two, understanding arguments on both sides and feeling that there are good hearted and sincere people on both sides, which was probably the most lonely position of all.

    Anyway, do you agree with me that once all the victory laps have been run and all the anger has subsided (and it will with time - it always does), this is essentially a dead issue?

    Now what are we gonna talk about?

    Getting a simple poll together and sorry about the weird font (I hope it's not huge) - that happens sometimes when I save something to my iPad then copy/paste it later.
    It'll take another year, perhaps two, for the dust to settle. By "dust," I'm referring to attempts by various states to try work-arounds, such as only allowing religious clerks to officiate weddings and other such nonsense. Unfortunately I can't find the article anymore, but there's a bunch of tactics they'll be trying for a while.

  10. #10
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    Re: Is SSM a "dead" issue, now?

    No, of course it is not a dead issue. What an absurd thing to suggest.

    Is the abortion debate dead because of Roe v Wade? Is the gun rights issue dead because of the 2nd Amendment? (and that is 223 years old.) Is the issue of Social Security and Welfare dead because of 50+ and 60+ year legislation efforts? And every one of those has seen significant legal challenge, and every single one of those we debate today. Anything *but* dead issues. SSM is no different.

    Just because I agree with the bare majority on this SSM decision (after reading it all including the 4 separate dissents,) still illustrates that there were 4 dissenting opinions telling us this was not a clear overwhelming decision in terms of our Constitution and Laws. Just because I agree (or anyone else for that matter, even as a majority) does not mean the issue is dead. And we have at least two States so far, Alabama and Arkansas, willing to put up some degree of continued resistance.

    So tell us, how could this really be a dead issue?
    "Every time something really bad happens, people cry out for safety, and the government answers by taking rights away from good people." - Penn Jillette.

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