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Is SSM a "dead" issue, now?

Is SSM a "dead" issue, now?


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I think so. I think we now live in a world where SSM is no longer an issue and all arguments, pro and con, are now moot.

Seriously, that's actually difficult to wrap my mind around. All the time and energy arguing about who is and isn't pro/anti SSM and why they are and are not is moot. Like the ruling or not, the issue has been settled and it will never go back. Continuing to dwell on it and argue it, especially on the anti-SSM side is pointless. You're just making yourselves miserable over something that most likely will have zero impact on your life. On the pro side, you have every right to celebrate, but maybe you could try to be happy rather than hateful. C'mon, it's supposed easy to be magnanimous when you win (and you have won).

I, for one, look forward to all the furor settling down. Honestly, this issue felt a little like it tore me in two, understanding arguments on both sides and feeling that there are good hearted and sincere people on both sides, which was probably the most lonely position of all.

Anyway, do you agree with me that once all the victory laps have been run and all the anger has subsided (and it will with time - it always does), this is essentially a dead issue?

Now what are we gonna talk about?

Getting a simple poll together and sorry about the weird font (I hope it's not huge) - that happens sometimes when I save something to my iPad then copy/paste it later.
 
I think so. I think we now live in a world where SSM is no longer an issue and all arguments, pro and con, are now moot.

Seriously, that's actually difficult to wrap my mind around. All the time and energy arguing about who is and isn't pro/anti SSM and why they are and are not is moot. Like the ruling or not, the issue has been settled and it will never go back. Continuing to dwell on it and argue it, especially on the anti-SSM side is pointless. You're just making yourselves miserable over something that most likely will have zero impact on your life. On the pro side, you have every right to celebrate, but maybe you could try to be happy rather than hateful. C'mon, it's supposed easy to be magnanimous when you win (and you have won).

I, for one, look forward to all the furor settling down. Honestly, this issue felt a little like it tore me in two, understanding arguments on both sides and feeling that there are good hearted and sincere people on both sides, which was probably the most lonely position of all.

Anyway, do you agree with me that once all the victory laps have been run and all the anger has subsided (and it will with time - it always does), this is essentially a dead issue?

Now what are we gonna talk about?

Getting a simple poll together and sorry about the weird font (I hope it's not huge) - that happens sometimes when I save something to my iPad then copy/paste it later.

In the US. Maybe.

In the rest of the world. Absolutely not.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Russia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Uganda
 
Certain states have already come out and said that they will not comply with, or will put up challenges to, the Supreme Court's ruling, so yes, it still is an issue even in this country. And it is most definitely an issue in many other countries.

As far as LGBT rights in general, there's still a REALLY long way to go.
 
Ah hell. We have to go on bickering and hating on each other because of Russia?

I think his point, in response to your question, is that SSM is far from a "dead" issue, especially internationally.
 
In the US and much of Western Europe it's a legally decided issue. Republicans will never be able to turn the Supreme Court ruling now that it already ruled once that SSM is a right. That officially makes it legally 99.99% impossible to undo (contrary to what some Republicans claim).
 
I think so. I think we now live in a world where SSM is no longer an issue and all arguments, pro and con, are now moot.

Seriously, that's actually difficult to wrap my mind around. All the time and energy arguing about who is and isn't pro/anti SSM and why they are and are not is moot. Like the ruling or not, the issue has been settled and it will never go back. Continuing to dwell on it and argue it, especially on the anti-SSM side is pointless. You're just making yourselves miserable over something that most likely will have zero impact on your life. On the pro side, you have every right to celebrate, but maybe you could try to be happy rather than hateful. C'mon, it's supposed easy to be magnanimous when you win (and you have won).

I, for one, look forward to all the furor settling down. Honestly, this issue felt a little like it tore me in two, understanding arguments on both sides and feeling that there are good hearted and sincere people on both sides, which was probably the most lonely position of all.

Anyway, do you agree with me that once all the victory laps have been run and all the anger has subsided (and it will with time - it always does), this is essentially a dead issue?

Now what are we gonna talk about?

Getting a simple poll together and sorry about the weird font (I hope it's not huge) - that happens sometimes when I save something to my iPad then copy/paste it later.

I doubt it. Forcing people who conscientiously object to supporting crimes against their God is a rather drastic break with American tradition for which there are almost no precedents but in war. Here the reason for this intrusion on basic rights is not so persuasive.
 
I have every confidence that SSM will turn out to be an issue every bit as dead as the abortion issue has been post Roe v Wade.
 
I think so. I think we now live in a world where SSM is no longer an issue and all arguments, pro and con, are now moot.

Seriously, that's actually difficult to wrap my mind around. All the time and energy arguing about who is and isn't pro/anti SSM and why they are and are not is moot. Like the ruling or not, the issue has been settled and it will never go back. Continuing to dwell on it and argue it, especially on the anti-SSM side is pointless. You're just making yourselves miserable over something that most likely will have zero impact on your life. On the pro side, you have every right to celebrate, but maybe you could try to be happy rather than hateful. C'mon, it's supposed easy to be magnanimous when you win (and you have won).

I, for one, look forward to all the furor settling down. Honestly, this issue felt a little like it tore me in two, understanding arguments on both sides and feeling that there are good hearted and sincere people on both sides, which was probably the most lonely position of all.

Anyway, do you agree with me that once all the victory laps have been run and all the anger has subsided (and it will with time - it always does), this is essentially a dead issue?

Now what are we gonna talk about?

Getting a simple poll together and sorry about the weird font (I hope it's not huge) - that happens sometimes when I save something to my iPad then copy/paste it later.

It'll take another year, perhaps two, for the dust to settle. By "dust," I'm referring to attempts by various states to try work-arounds, such as only allowing religious clerks to officiate weddings and other such nonsense. Unfortunately I can't find the article anymore, but there's a bunch of tactics they'll be trying for a while.
 
No, of course it is not a dead issue. What an absurd thing to suggest.

Is the abortion debate dead because of Roe v Wade? Is the gun rights issue dead because of the 2nd Amendment? (and that is 223 years old.) Is the issue of Social Security and Welfare dead because of 50+ and 60+ year legislation efforts? And every one of those has seen significant legal challenge, and every single one of those we debate today. Anything *but* dead issues. SSM is no different.

Just because I agree with the bare majority on this SSM decision (after reading it all including the 4 separate dissents,) still illustrates that there were 4 dissenting opinions telling us this was not a clear overwhelming decision in terms of our Constitution and Laws. Just because I agree (or anyone else for that matter, even as a majority) does not mean the issue is dead. And we have at least two States so far, Alabama and Arkansas, willing to put up some degree of continued resistance.

So tell us, how could this really be a dead issue?
 
I think so. I think we now live in a world where SSM is no longer an issue and all arguments, pro and con, are now moot.

Seriously, that's actually difficult to wrap my mind around. All the time and energy arguing about who is and isn't pro/anti SSM and why they are and are not is moot. Like the ruling or not, the issue has been settled and it will never go back. Continuing to dwell on it and argue it, especially on the anti-SSM side is pointless. You're just making yourselves miserable over something that most likely will have zero impact on your life. On the pro side, you have every right to celebrate, but maybe you could try to be happy rather than hateful. C'mon, it's supposed easy to be magnanimous when you win (and you have won).

I, for one, look forward to all the furor settling down. Honestly, this issue felt a little like it tore me in two, understanding arguments on both sides and feeling that there are good hearted and sincere people on both sides, which was probably the most lonely position of all.

Anyway, do you agree with me that once all the victory laps have been run and all the anger has subsided (and it will with time - it always does), this is essentially a dead issue?

Now what are we gonna talk about?

Getting a simple poll together and sorry about the weird font (I hope it's not huge) - that happens sometimes when I save something to my iPad then copy/paste it later.



Well, one can hope.

It's been coming, anyone could see it was inevitable for several years now.

It's done... be nice if we could talk about something ELSE for a change.


However, I have an unpleasant suspicion that that floodgates will open for lawsuits based on this or that sort of discrimination claims, all aimed at ramming acceptance down everyone's throats. "Gracious in victory" seems unlikely. Movements don't stop moving just because they've won their primary objective; those who make a living leading the movement tend to look for the next thing to make a big deal out of, so they can stay employed. ;)


I hope I'm wrong. I doubt that I am.
 
I have every confidence that SSM will turn out to be an issue every bit as dead as the abortion issue has been post Roe v Wade.

I disagree. What's keeping Roe vs. Wade alive is the ability to point to a victim (whether or not you agree a victim is actually involved). In the case of ssm there's no victim to point to, and therefore it's substantially more difficult to keep it alive as a burning issue of debate.
 
Well, one can hope.

It's been coming, anyone could see it was inevitable for several years now.

It's done... be nice if we could talk about something ELSE for a change.


However, I have an unpleasant suspicion that that floodgates will open for lawsuits based on this or that sort of discrimination claims, all aimed at ramming acceptance down everyone's throats. "Gracious in victory" seems unlikely. Movements don't stop moving just because they've won their primary objective; those who make a living leading the movement tend to look for the next thing to make a big deal out of, so they can stay employed. ;)


I hope I'm wrong. I doubt that I am.

We've had legal same sex marriage in the country since 2004. If the last eleven years are anything to go by then you can expect more of the same from here on out. As such the only example we've had of a church being forced to officiate a same sex marriage was in Denmark.
 
I think so. I think we now live in a world where SSM is no longer an issue and all arguments, pro and con, are now moot.

Seriously, that's actually difficult to wrap my mind around. All the time and energy arguing about who is and isn't pro/anti SSM and why they are and are not is moot. Like the ruling or not, the issue has been settled and it will never go back. Continuing to dwell on it and argue it, especially on the anti-SSM side is pointless. You're just making yourselves miserable over something that most likely will have zero impact on your life. On the pro side, you have every right to celebrate, but maybe you could try to be happy rather than hateful. C'mon, it's supposed easy to be magnanimous when you win (and you have won).

I, for one, look forward to all the furor settling down. Honestly, this issue felt a little like it tore me in two, understanding arguments on both sides and feeling that there are good hearted and sincere people on both sides, which was probably the most lonely position of all.

Anyway, do you agree with me that once all the victory laps have been run and all the anger has subsided (and it will with time - it always does), this is essentially a dead issue?

Now what are we gonna talk about?

Getting a simple poll together and sorry about the weird font (I hope it's not huge) - that happens sometimes when I save something to my iPad then copy/paste it later.

I personally don't care about SSM one way or the other however lots of people oppose it and there will be lots of opposition to it's acceptance until it's no longer news.
 
Ah hell. We have to go on bickering and hating on each other because of Russia?

Well we also have to consider that even in this country, although the issues has been decided legally, there are still a whole host of related social issues facing the LGBT community that need to be waded through. Nevermind the fact that we're going to see further clashes between this ruling and individuals/organizations/companies right to religious expression.
 
All you need look at is what younger generations think on the issue. Younger generations are very pro gay marriage. I don't see this issue, just as abortion, facing any real legal threat. Abortion is easy enough to get in America. Either way, all that really matters for the future of a law is what do the younger generations feel, and in this case America's youth are completely socially liberal. Social conservatism is on a steep decline in America and every poll shows this.
 
The US Constitution is officially a dead issue now.
 
We've had legal same sex marriage in the country since 2004. If the last eleven years are anything to go by then you can expect more of the same from here on out. As such the only example we've had of a church being forced to officiate a same sex marriage was in Denmark.



:shrug: We'll see what we see. I'm not going to lose sleep over it, but I suspect someone will find a way to fan the fires... some gay version of Jessie or Al perhaps, seeing discrimination in every incidence of bad restaurant service. :D
 
I think so. I think we now live in a world where SSM is no longer an issue and all arguments, pro and con, are now moot.

Seriously, that's actually difficult to wrap my mind around. All the time and energy arguing about who is and isn't pro/anti SSM and why they are and are not is moot. Like the ruling or not, the issue has been settled and it will never go back. Continuing to dwell on it and argue it, especially on the anti-SSM side is pointless. You're just making yourselves miserable over something that most likely will have zero impact on your life. On the pro side, you have every right to celebrate, but maybe you could try to be happy rather than hateful. C'mon, it's supposed easy to be magnanimous when you win (and you have won).

I, for one, look forward to all the furor settling down. Honestly, this issue felt a little like it tore me in two, understanding arguments on both sides and feeling that there are good hearted and sincere people on both sides, which was probably the most lonely position of all.

Anyway, do you agree with me that once all the victory laps have been run and all the anger has subsided (and it will with time - it always does), this is essentially a dead issue?

Now what are we gonna talk about?

Getting a simple poll together and sorry about the weird font (I hope it's not huge) - that happens sometimes when I save something to my iPad then copy/paste it later.
There will be some initial outrage by some for a few months, but it's pretty much settled and done.
 
All you need look at is what younger generations think on the issue. Younger generations are very pro gay marriage. I don't see this issue, just as abortion, facing any real legal threat. Abortion is easy enough to get in America. Either way, all that really matters for the future of a law is what do the younger generations feel, and in this case America's youth are completely socially liberal. Social conservatism is on a steep decline in America and every poll shows this.



Well, they're socially something... I'm not sure liberal is quite the correct term. Most of them seem to be as big on individual liberty as any libertarian; at the same time they're also in favor of substantial social programs for those struggling economically. One might say they are as much left-libertarian as liberal-progressive, depending on the issue. Yet in some ways they seem conservative on certain specific issues. They may be "something new under the sun" that doesn't really quite fit into any of the pigeonholes into which we've grown accustomed to stuffing people.
 
I have every confidence that SSM will turn out to be an issue every bit as dead as the abortion issue has been post Roe v Wade.

A fair point, G, one that I had considered but there is a difference in that Roe left open the possibility of restricting abortion and I think most of the challenges to Roe argue that they fall within acceptable restrictions.
 
Not at all a dead issue.

SSM is an integral part of the American outrage and shock at the Liberal devastation wreaked in the past ten years on the formerly beautiful country that was America, along with open borders, unchecked immigration, foreign colonization, the rise of radical jihad, the Liberal destruction of the military, etc., etc.

After last week, people look at the Supreme Court and wonder what happened to reason in America. The corruption is virtually complete and a turnaround absolutely must start soon.

Additionally, the coming homosexual gloating and endless "In your face" disgusting celebrations are going to fuel the rage and anger in this country far beyond what we've seen before.
 
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I think so. I think we now live in a world where SSM is no longer an issue and all arguments, pro and con, are now moot.

Seriously, that's actually difficult to wrap my mind around. All the time and energy arguing about who is and isn't pro/anti SSM and why they are and are not is moot. Like the ruling or not, the issue has been settled and it will never go back. Continuing to dwell on it and argue it, especially on the anti-SSM side is pointless. You're just making yourselves miserable over something that most likely will have zero impact on your life. On the pro side, you have every right to celebrate, but maybe you could try to be happy rather than hateful. C'mon, it's supposed easy to be magnanimous when you win (and you have won).

I, for one, look forward to all the furor settling down. Honestly, this issue felt a little like it tore me in two, understanding arguments on both sides and feeling that there are good hearted and sincere people on both sides, which was probably the most lonely position of all.

Anyway, do you agree with me that once all the victory laps have been run and all the anger has subsided (and it will with time - it always does), this is essentially a dead issue?

Now what are we gonna talk about?

Getting a simple poll together and sorry about the weird font (I hope it's not huge) - that happens sometimes when I save something to my iPad then copy/paste it later.

Depends. There is still a possibility some of the states will try to resist. Some politicians have been encouraging this, and there is a real chance it could happen. If that happens, then no, this issue isn't settled, and the potential outcomes of this range from mildly annoying to very seriously bad. It's not time to let down our guard quite yet.

But if the states accept the ruling, then pretty much, yeah. There are still a lot of other issues to talk about relating to sex and sexuality, but this one will pretty much be settled, assuming none of the states decide to martyr themselves over it.
 
Well, one can hope.

It's been coming, anyone could see it was inevitable for several years now.

It's done... be nice if we could talk about something ELSE for a change.


However, I have an unpleasant suspicion that that floodgates will open for lawsuits based on this or that sort of discrimination claims, all aimed at ramming acceptance down everyone's throats. "Gracious in victory" seems unlikely. Movements don't stop moving just because they've won their primary objective; those who make a living leading the movement tend to look for the next thing to make a big deal out of, so they can stay employed. ;)


I hope I'm wrong. I doubt that I am.

I hear you, Goshin. What I fear is that too many people don't really even want this to be a settled issue.
 
:shrug: We'll see what we see. I'm not going to lose sleep over it, but I suspect someone will find a way to fan the fires... some gay version of Jessie or Al perhaps, seeing discrimination in every incidence of bad restaurant service. :D

There are three hundred million people in the United States, so obviously someone is going to try something. However, the line between open businesses, private clubs, and churches have been clearly drawn. The precedent for how legalized ssm will affect society has largely already been determined.
 
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