Jesus is God. As God, Jesus is the one who gave Moses the Levitical law against gay sexual relations to begin with; and he’s the one who inspires all Scripture (2 Timothy 3:16), including prohibitions against gay sexual relations in Romans 1:26-27 and I Corinthians 6:9-10, etc.
It’s also worth noting that Jesus didn’t mention wife beating or other sins such as pedophilia either, and there are not many folks who would argue he approved of those behaviors. So Jesus was under no obligation to reiterate the moral laws against homosexual sin that already existed, unless there were clarifications to be made.
"Progressives aren't really progressive. They're regressive, all the way back to Sodom and Gomorrah." - author unknown
This post is your shortest, so I'm just gonna quote it and then go from there.
0. Looks like we're gonna have to agree to disagree about the block-quoting-vs-outlining thing.
1. "Christian bullies." You're right. Many of you are. Thanks, I'm going to use that phrase more.
2. Newton gave us physics; Mendel gave us genetics (a cornerstone of evolution, BTW); John Locke (right?) was a liberal who, according to the Wikipedia page, greatly influenced Voltaire. In all cases, these men helped give us a great gift: Reliance on reason and open-minded inquiry, not dogma and superstition. As another Christian scientist (not to be confused with the denomination) once said: "I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forego their use."
3. You didn't define what postmodernism was. And what is your deal with relativism. You really think that everything in life is cut-and-dry, black-and-white, right-or-wrong? If so, then I almost guarantee you that no matter what claim of morality you make short of "Thou shalt not nuke the entire planet," it cannot necessarily be 100% defended. For example, don't commit murder? OK, what about self-defense? Where is the threshold between justifiable and criminal homicide? We've already had multiple, bitter debates surrounding instances where that very question was at stake.
(3.1) And here you go again with the snark. Put it where the sun don't shine, Will. It is categorically not welcome. I don't understand how much clearer I can make that for you.
(3.2) OK, since you didn't catch my tip the first time, let me clearly spell this out: Our believing in "if it feels good, do it" is a massive strawman. Lose it already. And your lecture of delayed gratification, when I have seen some conservatives struggle with this too, is neither necessary nor welcome.
(3.3) Yet again, get the plank out of your eye so you can see the speck in mine.
4. OMG STOP LYING. You are harping on a point that I DID NOT MAKE. Stop lying already. See this is why I can't respect your beliefs, Will. You occasionally toss out something that I could work with, and then you pull this ****. Furthermore, it is pure hypocrisy on your part when you are either unwilling or unable to obey the Ninth Commandment, which, as a Christian, is one of your ten basic rules.
5. Christianity is dying out in America. I am not going to let this go until you get it. That is a fact, will, a cold, hard fact that you are deliberately and intentionally choosing not to accept.
(5.1) You shift from blaming the entire public education system to blaming a couple of "low-quality videos"?! HA! Alright, fine, Creationist Cat's videos are not exactly what I'd call high-quality. but that's part of why I didn't reference his.
(5.2) Actually I was thinking going over to the videos themselves and commenting there. But yes, I can pop by the Religion forum.
6. Tell me one verse, one single verse, where Jesus explicitly said that being LGBT was a sin, or where he explicitly told a clearly LGBT person to "repent."
7. Whoa, you served in the armed forces. Thank you for your service. Don't forget, though, that you swore to defend all Americans: LGBT, not just heteronormative; liberals, not just conservatives and libertarians; atheists, Jews, and Muslims, not just Christians.
8. This lie is tossed around a lot by the Right. It expresses a fundamental inability to discern what persecution actually is. You don't believe that gays should marry? Fine, don't get married to another man. But you do not have the right to tell other gays not to just because you find it icky, or "morally wrong," or "sinful," or "against God's word," or whatever bull**** excuse that anti-LGBT Christians use. Your rights end where my face begins. Get over it already. The gay is here to stay.
(8.1) Bias is not the same as persecution. Not even close. I have noticed in my years of interacting with people of multiple religions that the religion with the single most defensive group of people to polemics is, by far, conservative Christians. There isn't even a close second. Muslims (as long as you avoid insulting the Prophet) and Jews are far, far, far less defensive towards polemics. In fact Jews almost seem to welcome it!
9. It is not your place to tell a gay person what is "temptation." That is theirs and theirs alone. To do so is bullying, pure and simple.
P.S. Glad you were able to shake the bad drinking habits.
Ah, yes, the old "we choose to sin" argument. Free will. Do tell me, Will, what kind of a God creates sin, knowing that we are going to sin, and then blames us for it when we do sin? Again, such a God is not worthy of worship.
10.A. Please, dude, don't even try that ****. You wanna talk to me about a "Biblical message about sexuality"? I could go on ALL DAY about how the OT is incredibly ****ed up when it comes to sex. The OT is so outdated it isn't even funny. And I have zero respect for anything that the incredibly misogynistic St. Paul said about sex.
10.B. Prove it. More liberal churches are dying, too, but unlike Evangelicals, liberal Christians don't freak out when people suddenly stop showing up on Sundays.
10.C. HA! yeah you just go on thinking that. I was just talking with a friend the other day about a pretty large Baptist church that recently got demolished in Atlanta, and you know what he told me was the single greatest contributor? Age. That church literally died off. And that's a problem that church after church is facing. And they are doing a terrible job, as evidenced by your words, of diagnosing the true cause.10.D. Knock it off. Your judgmental attitude is not welcome.
"Because he loves us." Hahahahahahaha oh man...that reminds me of a great George Carlin routine...man, if you weren't so damn up-tight about your religion, I guarantee you that even you would enjoy it!
We need to worship him? Why?! So he won't cook us in Hell?
HA! If you seriously think that I'm the first person to ask what God gets out of worship, then you need to engage in a lot more apologetic/polemical conversations. It's a fair question, and I would like an answer: What does God get out of worship?
11. See above. It is primarily the attitudes of a religion's followers by which I judge a religion--a stance, I admit, that not all freethinkers take. I am painfully aware of not just the good but the bad that has been done in the name of Jesus, past and present. Even in your responses to me, right here in this thread, you have revealed some of that.
Because it's hypocrisy, something I cannot stand. People who cannot follow their own basic beliefs have no business trying to preach them to others, let alone trying to make those beliefs into laws of the land. Yet again, this is something that Millennials are keenly aware of and that conservative Christians have yet to come up with an answer for.
13. Divorce and single parenting is not the cut-and-dry issue that you apparently think it is. Divorce can be anything from horrible to long-overdue, depending on the circumstance. And frankly your comments against single parents are insulting. You should speak of things you clearly do not understand. I have met some great single parents, and I have met some horrible parents who are still married. Conservative Christians' blind believe that two (straight) parents is the magic number is just laughable.
14. No, Will, you don't understand. See, I am an ex-conservative-Christian. (And this is where you start to really judge me. Bring it on.) So I know your (plural) tricks; I know your tactics. Your bluffs are easy to call, because I know what's what. There are only so many ways to defend a mirage before finally realizing it is a mirage.
Maybe there is a grain of truth to that. OK, I think a better formulation of my claim is that it is the people who seek honest answers about Christianity and stop taking it at face value are the ones most likely to leave. There; that's a more defensible claim, one that I have seen plenty of examples of.
^ damn son
Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.
ďIf we must have an enemy at the head of Government, let it be one whom we can oppose, and for whom we are not responsible, who will not involve our party in the disgrace of his foolish and bad measures.Ē
- Alexander Hamilton. Spiritual father of #NeverTrump