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Is SSM a "dead" issue, now?

Is SSM a "dead" issue, now?


  • Total voters
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I doubt it. Forcing people who conscientiously object to supporting crimes against their God is a rather drastic break with American tradition for which there are almost no precedents but in war. Here the reason for this intrusion on basic rights is not so persuasive.

You must be in the wrong thread cause none of that is happening on this topic LMAO
 
"In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire." - Jude 1:7

I trust Jesus's words over whomever it was who wrote Jude. You are familiar with some of the logical contradictions and inconsistencies in your Bible, right?
 
I trust Jesus's words over whomever it was who wrote Jude. You are familiar with some of the logical contradictions and inconsistencies in your Bible, right?

I am familiar with a whole bunch of lame arguments from folks like you.
 
You must be in the wrong thread cause none of that is happening on this topic LMAO

There are people that do not understand the dynamics of societies very well. They might think that you were right.
 
I am familiar with a whole bunch of lame arguments from folks like you.

Translation: You don't know and don't care about all the contradictions in the Bible.
 
Translation: You don't know and don't care about all the contradictions in the Bible.

Show me your best one (1) - just one, your very best ONE - from the GOSPELS - and we'll see if that bad boy has wings to fly. If not, you've got nothing. Include scripture numbers.

You're on...
 
Show me your best one (1) - just one, your very best ONE - from the GOSPELS - and we'll see if that bad boy has wings to fly. If not, you've got nothing. Include scripture numbers.

You're on...

Challenge accepted. :)

Was Jesus silent during his trial before Pilate?
Who put the robe on Jesus?
What color was Jesus' robe?
Who carried Jesus' cross?
What did the sign over Jesus' head say?
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/reviled.html
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/curtain.html
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/centurion_call.html
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/women_sepulchre.html
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/dawn.html
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/women_see.html
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/open.html
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/inside.html
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/tell.html
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/first_ap.html
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/recognize.html
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/touch.html
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/happy_sad.html
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/tarry.html
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/samaritans.html

All of these are documented contradictions, just between the four Gospels, just on the death and resurrection of Jesus, which is the single most important event in all of Christianity. The entire religion hangs on it. Yet your Bible has four different versions of this event which cannot possibly be reconciled with one another!

(Inb4 you criticize the fact that Skeptics Annotated Bible is my source. If that's all you do, then I accept your surrender.)
 
Challenge accepted. :)

Was Jesus silent during his trial before Pilate?
Who put the robe on Jesus?
What color was Jesus' robe?
Who carried Jesus' cross?
What did the sign over Jesus' head say?
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/reviled.html
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/curtain.html
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/centurion_call.html
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/women_sepulchre.html
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/dawn.html
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/women_see.html
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/open.html
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/inside.html
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/tell.html
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/first_ap.html
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/recognize.html
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/touch.html
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/happy_sad.html
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/tarry.html
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/samaritans.html

All of these are documented contradictions, just between the four Gospels, just on the death and resurrection of Jesus, which is the single most important event in all of Christianity. The entire religion hangs on it. Yet your Bible has four different versions of this event which cannot possibly be reconciled with one another!

(Inb4 you criticize the fact that Skeptics Annotated Bible is my source. If that's all you do, then I accept your surrender.)

I knew it.

I asked you to pick ONE and you give me a shopping list. How would you like a link back that answers hundreds?

But for the record, I'll pick this ONE: http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/women_see.html

Whom did the women see at the tomb?

Your questions assume time didn't pass while they were there and people / angels didn't come and go. Which is why your claim isn't worth the time it took to present it.

Greenleaf's "Harmony of the Resurrection" puts the events in chronological order, and that settles that.

http://www.tektonics.org/harmonize/greenharmony.htm

By the way, ALL FOUR GOSPELS CONFIRM THE RESURRECTION. Don't miss the forest for the trees, which is what you're doing.
 
Show me your best one (1) - just one, your very best ONE - from the GOSPELS - and we'll see if that bad boy has wings to fly. If not, you've got nothing. Include scripture numbers.

You're on...

Well a real easy one is Genesis, where God creates the Earth and everything on it in 6 days.
 
I knew it.

I asked you to pick ONE and you give me a shopping list. How would you like a link back that answers hundreds?

I'm sorry, I missed the memo where you were designated the arbiter of this debate. And FWIW, that was a small sample of contradictions that I gave you.

But for the record, I'll pick this ONE: Whom did the women see at the tomb?

Whom did the women see at the tomb?

Your questions assume time didn't pass while they were there and people / angels didn't come and go. Which is why your claim isn't worth the time it took to present it.

Greenleaf's "Harmony of the Resurrection" puts the events in chronological order, and that settles that.

Greenleaf?s Harmony of the Resurrection Accounts

By the way, ALL FOUR GOSPELS CONFIRM THE RESURRECTION. Don't miss the forest for the trees, which is what you're doing.

In order to confirm the validity of the resurrection story, it is necessary, but not sufficient, that all the details be consistent. And considering that what happened on Easter morning is the single most important event in Christianity, and that many conservative Christians consider the Bible to be the inerrant word of God, I feel this is not too high of a standard to set. A single detail out-of-place threatens the whole story, and multiple out-of-place details completely destroy it. So no, I am not going to play the "let's just look at one detail" game, because we must consider how all the parts fit together, not just the individual parts, in order to see if the resurrection story survives this test. (That's a mouthful, yes, but if you live up to your screen name, this shouldn't be too hard to understand.

Let's just focus on Mary of Magdalene, for example.

A. In Matthew 28, at dawn she comes with "the other Mary" to the tomb. A violent earthquake occurred as a direct result of an angel's rolling the stone away (v. 5). This is the only gospel to even mention the earthquake; why? By no standard does it make any sense for the other writers to omit the earthquake, let alone a violent one. Then they see the angel who did this, sitting on the stone, who gives them the good news and tells them to return. On the way back, they ran into Jesus himself. The big reveal to the disciples came at Galilee.

B. In Mark 16, right after sunrise she comes with Mary the mother of James (Matthew's "other Mary"?) and Salome. Why is Salome not even mentioned by Matthew? In this version of the story, the stone is already rolled away. No earthquake in Mark. They see a man--inside the tomb--who gives them the good news. Then they leave, confused and afraid. They do not run into Jesus.

C. Mark has a somewhat different story immediately after this that focuses on what happened after Mary of Magdalene and the other(s)(?) saw the empty tomb: She ran and told the disciples, but they did not believe him. Next, Jesus morphs into a different form (why??) and appears to two of them out in the country. They relate the news to the rest, who don't believe them. Finally, the big reveal comes while they are all eating. They are full of doubt, and Jesus rebukes them. Did this happen in Galilee? Perhaps, but that seems like a stretch.

D. In Luke 24, early that morning "the women" went to the tomb. Who are these women? Similarly to Mark's story, they experienced no earthquake, saw the stone rolled away, and walked right in. But they saw two men, not one, inside the tomb. They give the women the good news. We finally learn who these women are: Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, Joanna, and some others. The crowd just keeps growing! They all tell the disciples the good news. The disciples doubt them, kinda sorta except for Peter.

Now in the next post, which I will need due to the length of my response, this is where things really get good...
 
E. In John 20, Mary Magdalene goes to the tomb, alone, while it's still dark. Now we can split hairs on the difference between dawn vs. sunrise--yes, there is a technical difference--but barring something insane going on, it is physically impossible for it to be dark outside right after sunrise. And there is no bizarre meteorological phenomenon mentioned in John's version of the story. So she goes into the tomb, alone, and sees nobody in there. Then she runs back to Peter and DJL ("the disciple who Jesus loved) and tells them. They all run towards the tomb; Peter arrives first, DJL comes in second, and Mary Magdalene arrives in last place. The two men go inside the tomb. Note that this is the only one of the stories where there is even the mention of a mortal man entering the tomb. How come none of the three other gospels even brought them up? Then the two men go back, but Mary Magdalene lurks for awhile, and she runs into Jesus, who doesn't give away his identity just yet; it takes a brief conversation for her to figure it out. Finally, Jesus reveals himself to the disciples, but unlike in Mark and Luke, they eagerly and enthusiastically accept him; well, except for Thomas.

A well-defended theory is that Matthew, Mark, and Luke all came from the same source, which could have been any of those three (although very likely not Mark), and John was written separately. And we see an example of that right here, in the most critical story in the entire Christian religion. How exactly are you supposed to believe in the death and resurrection of Jesus if it's not clear which version of the story you're supposed to believe in? Even if we pretend not to notice the inconsistencies between Matthew's, Mark's, and Luke's versions, John's version is so far removed as to make reconciliation with the other three absolutely untenable.

This, Logicman, is a part of John Barker's Easter Challenge. I encourage you to try it and see if you can solve it. Many have tried; some erroneously believe they have solved it (such as the writer of the link you provided). None have succeeded. Remember, it's an all-or-nothing challenge to support the tenets of an all-or-nothing faith. Fair is fair.
 
I'm sorry, I missed the memo where you were designated the arbiter of this debate. And FWIW, that was a small sample of contradictions that I gave you.

And here's a small sampling of refutations for alleged 'contradictions' for you. Don't just slap some accusations against the wall but actually do some more thorough research to see why your arguments lack merit.

https://answersingenesis.org/contradictions-in-the-bible/scripture-index/

In order to confirm the validity of the resurrection story, it is necessary, but not sufficient, that all the details be consistent. And considering that what happened on Easter morning is the single most important event in Christianity, and that many conservative Christians consider the Bible to be the inerrant word of God, I feel this is not too high of a standard to set. A single detail out-of-place threatens the whole story, and multiple out-of-place details completely destroy it. So no, I am not going to play the "let's just look at one detail" game, because we must consider how all the parts fit together, not just the individual parts, in order to see if the resurrection story survives this test. (That's a mouthful, yes, but if you live up to your screen name, this shouldn't be too hard to understand.

Let's just focus on Mary of Magdalene, for example.

A. In Matthew 28, at dawn she comes with "the other Mary" to the tomb. A violent earthquake occurred as a direct result of an angel's rolling the stone away (v. 5). This is the only gospel to even mention the earthquake; why? By no standard does it make any sense for the other writers to omit the earthquake, let alone a violent one. Then they see the angel who did this, sitting on the stone, who gives them the good news and tells them to return. On the way back, they ran into Jesus himself. The big reveal to the disciples came at Galilee.

B. In Mark 16, right after sunrise she comes with Mary the mother of James (Matthew's "other Mary"?) and Salome. Why is Salome not even mentioned by Matthew? In this version of the story, the stone is already rolled away. No earthquake in Mark. They see a man--inside the tomb--who gives them the good news. Then they leave, confused and afraid. They do not run into Jesus.

C. Mark has a somewhat different story immediately after this that focuses on what happened after Mary of Magdalene and the other(s)(?) saw the empty tomb: She ran and told the disciples, but they did not believe him. Next, Jesus morphs into a different form (why??) and appears to two of them out in the country. They relate the news to the rest, who don't believe them. Finally, the big reveal comes while they are all eating. They are full of doubt, and Jesus rebukes them. Did this happen in Galilee? Perhaps, but that seems like a stretch.

D. In Luke 24, early that morning "the women" went to the tomb. Who are these women? Similarly to Mark's story, they experienced no earthquake, saw the stone rolled away, and walked right in. But they saw two men, not one, inside the tomb. They give the women the good news. We finally learn who these women are: Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, Joanna, and some others. The crowd just keeps growing! They all tell the disciples the good news. The disciples doubt them, kinda sorta except for Peter.

Now in the next post, which I will need due to the length of my response, this is where things really get good...

First of all, "Easter" is not mentioned in the Bible.

Second, other Gospel writers are under no obligation to repeat events already written about or are the subject of Oral news and/or traditions. The Jews were predominately an oral culture, and thus claiming that so-and-so never spoke about this or that event totally fails to take into account that such an earthquake as you mention, may well have been common knowledge that didn't require written confirmations.

Third, a number of your arguments above are Logical Fallacies - specifically arguments from silence, which are not compelling arguments.

Fourth, I don't think you really care if there are multiple confirmations of events. Because when there are - as in the resurrection of Jesus in all four Gospels and various epistles - you throw it under the bus anyway.

You are still missing the main even that's not in question - the resurrection of Jesus Christ.


Finally, I think you need to study that link I previously provided you on the "Harmony of the Resurrection accounts." And also don't forget, that it is not often in a court of law that all parties and witnesses agree on all the facts.
 
And here's a small sampling of refutations for alleged 'contradictions' for you. Don't just slap some accusations against the wall but actually do some more thorough research to see why your arguments lack merit.

https://answersingenesis.org/contradictions-in-the-bible/scripture-index/

1. I see that you have not taken the necessary time needed to analyze my arguments and accusations. Instead, you are immediately falling back on old, failed tactics.

2. AIG is an absolute joke of a website without the slightest shred of credibility among those who have an ounce of reason or intellect.

First of all, "Easter" is not mentioned in the Bible.

Second, other Gospel writers are under no obligation to repeat events already written about or are the subject of Oral news and/or traditions. The Jews were predominately an oral culture, and thus claiming that so-and-so never spoke about this or that event totally fails to take into account that such an earthquake as you mention, may well have been common knowledge that didn't require written confirmations.

Third, a number of your arguments above are Logical Fallacies - specifically arguments from silence, which are not compelling arguments.

Fourth, I don't think you really care if there are multiple confirmations of events. Because when there are - as in the resurrection of Jesus in all four Gospels and various epistles - you throw it under the bus anyway.

You are still missing the main even that's not in question - the resurrection of Jesus Christ.


Finally, I think you need to study that link I previously provided you on the "Harmony of the Resurrection accounts." And also don't forget, that it is not often in a court of law that all parties and witnesses agree on all the facts.

This is one of the single worst attempts I have ever seen on this entire website to attempt to answer logical accusations. I picked apart your (plural) resurrection story, clearly showing it to be rife with contradictions and inconsistencies. And that is the best comeback you have?!

Get back to me when you have solved the Easter Challenge. Or how about this: At least reconcile the points I brought up in posts #235-236. The ball is in your court.
 
1. I see that you have not taken the necessary time needed to analyze my arguments and accusations. Instead, you are immediately falling back on old, failed tactics.

2. AIG is an absolute joke of a website without the slightest shred of credibility among those who have an ounce of reason or intellect.

This is one of the single worst attempts I have ever seen on this entire website to attempt to answer logical accusations. I picked apart your (plural) resurrection story, clearly showing it to be rife with contradictions and inconsistencies. And that is the best comeback you have?!

Get back to me when you have solved the Easter Challenge. Or how about this: At least reconcile the points I brought up in posts #235-236. The ball is in your court.

I don't know why you keep beating that dead horse of yours and try to resurrect it. The "Harmony of the Gospels" spelled out in minute detail, and in chronological order, who was at the tomb and when. Apparently all that is lost on you.

It's also quite apparent you can't see the big picture - the resurrection of Christ confirmed in all four Gospels and various epistles. You focus on small potatoes and miss the enormous elephant in the room. If you could ever bring yourself to admit that's an incontrovertible and multiple-attested to truth, you wouldn't be wasting your time on those other issues.
 
I don't know why you keep beating that dead horse of yours and try to resurrect it. The "Harmony of the Gospels" spelled out in minute detail, and in chronological order, who was at the tomb and when. Apparently all that is lost on you.

It's also quite apparent you can't see the big picture - the resurrection of Christ confirmed in all four Gospels and various epistles. You focus on small potatoes and miss the enormous elephant in the room. If you could ever bring yourself to admit that's an incontrovertible and multiple-attested to truth, you wouldn't be wasting your time on those other issues.

I accept your surrender. :)
 
jesus-and-peter-walking_on_water.jpg
 
There are people that do not understand the dynamics of societies very well. They might think that you were right.

Facts prove me right on this issue, disagree provided a factual example to the opposite, you will fail
 
Facts prove me right on this issue, disagree provided a factual example to the opposite, you will fail

Do you really believe that? That is horrible.
But, of course it is true that one would be an idiot to try to prove ethics with facts.
 
Do you really believe that? That is horrible.
But, of course it is true that one would be an idiot to try to prove ethics with facts.

What is unethical about same sex marriage?
 
Do you really believe that? That is horrible.
But, of course it is true that one would be an idiot to try to prove ethics with facts.

Translation: you cant provide one fact that supports your proven wrong statement, thats what i thought
let us know when you can
facts win again
 
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