View Poll Results: Is SSM a "dead" issue, now?

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  • Yes, the issue is settled

    33 51.56%
  • No, there's lots yet to discuss/debate

    27 42.19%
  • Not sure

    2 3.13%
  • What's SSM?

    2 3.13%
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Thread: Is SSM a "dead" issue, now?

  1. #181
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    Re: Is SSM a "dead" issue, now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    Dude, could you at least *try* the outline format? Spamming quote tags like that makes your posts harder to digest as a whole.
    Block quote and then respond? Nah, when I do that invariably someone complains "well how come you didn't address this small point right here..." etc. Far better to go bit by bit.

    1. You start off immediately with the superiority complex. Well done. That was fast
    Not really.

    You are oblivious to it, but to those whom you target with it, it sticks out like a sore thumb.
    No - you want your opponents to be mean so that you can pat yourself on the back about what a find upstanding person you are for standing up to those mean arrogant Christian bullies.

    2. Religious thinkers = some of the most rational ones, eh? Can you please provide some examples of this?
    Sure: Newton. Mendel. Locke. A whole string of Jesuits who make up a disproportionate percentage of history's greatest mathematicians and astronomers. Many of history's greatest minds have devoted their intellect to both the pursuit of God and the world He made. That's not to say that religious folks are inherently more logical than atheists - only that there are many of them who are among our most logical, and who have advanced humankind because of it.

    3. There's so much wrong with this crap I don't even know where to begin. First of all, I'd like your personal definition of "postmodernism."
    Post-Modernism (generality) is the belief system that really got it's kick after WWI, when an entire generation of intellectuals, raised on the certainties of the 19th Century, saw it vanish in the blood and mud of France. It became less of an elite-only movement later in the 20th Century, when Deconstruction (spend some time reading Derrida, it's interesting) and Relativism became a bit of an academic rage (Future historians, I think, are going to look back on the latter half of the 20th century as a very odd time in Human thought).

    And your second sentence is EXACTLY the arrogance and dismissiveness I was talking about earlier. Protip: Learn to properly analyze your opponent so that you may have a chance to critique him. Or as Jesus said, get the plank out of your own eye so that you can see the specks in others'.
    1. You are not, as near as I can tell, a "pro".
    2. "If it feels good, do it" is indeed a juvenile and self-destructive philosophy. Adults make a plan, follow through, and have the ability to delay gratification. Children do what feels good in the moment, and suffer consequences later.
    3. For having claimed that there was so much wrong that you didn't know where to start... you haven't shown any. You have asked me to define a term and then shifted to an ad hominem.


    4. Christianity, as a percentage of world population growth, has stagnated. These are facts, will, cold, hard facts. Do you accept or deny these facts?
    Sure - and continues to grow in raw numbers. Both growth in raw numbers and maintenance as a percentage of global populace being antithetical to "dying out".

    5. Wait, are you finally conceding that Christianity is on the decline in America?
    I've never argued otherwise. I pointed out that the claim that Christianity was dying out is false.

    you think the public education system is to blame for the decline in Christianity in America?
    To the extent that people are fooled by low-quality video's on youtube claiming that Jesus was Mithras or whatnot, sure.

    Dude, OK, go watch some videos by DarkMatter2525, The atheist voice, or the Amazing Atheist. Try to refute their arguments. Go ahead, I'll be waiting
    Now this is interesting. Should I go get for you some of the better apologists, have you look at their material, and then we can both come back and report?

    In fact, you should consider doing some debating in our Religion forum. See if your arguments will work there.
    I float in and out sometimes.

    6. I know what Christlike attitude as because I can read a Bible. Christlike attitude is implied by verses such as 1 Corinthians 13:4-7, Matthew 6:9-13, and practically the entire Sermon on the Mount. I can tell you this much, Jesus spent a LOT more time reaching out to the poor and needy than he did hating on the ghey. (As a Christian, you do know this, right? ...right??)
    Christ spent zero time hating homosexuals - and a ministry on earth trying to reach them (and everyone else) with salvation if only they will repent. However, the requirement to repent is also in a Christian attitude, and one that Christ evinced.
    Worth noting, Democrats: President Trump will have a Pen and a Phone. #Precedent.

  2. #182
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    Re: Is SSM a "dead" issue, now?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Certain states have already come out and said that they will not comply with, or will put up challenges to, the Supreme Court's ruling, so yes, it still is an issue even in this country. And it is most definitely an issue in many other countries.

    As far as LGBT rights in general, there's still a REALLY long way to go.
    If it is, it shouldn't be.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  3. #183
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    Re: Is SSM a "dead" issue, now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    7. OOOOohhhhh, I used kerse werds! Oh noes!
    I've been screamed at by Marine Corps Drill Instructors for months and deployed to war in the infantry. If we want to holler puerile obscenities, I can hold my own. However, this response helps to draw out the point I was making - which was that if anyone in this debate is demonstrating a mocking, dismissive, abusive, and arrogant attitude, it is you.

    8. "No one is trying to push a religion on you." You lie. Right-wing American Christians are constantly pushing their agenda onto society.
    Which is not the same as trying to push a religion on anyone, any more than you being (for example) in favor of changing the definition of marriage to include same-sex couples means that you are forcing atheism on me.

    Yet they cry "persecution" when called out on it or when they lose a battle or two.
    there is an anti-Christian bias on much of the Left.

    9. If God created people knowing that they would be gay, bi, or trans, yet forbade them from acting on their desires, then God either messed up or is a malicious god.
    Not really - all of us have temptations, and all of us should avoid indulging them. I, for example, spent a few years as a drunk (though not an alcoholic), and have the same class of temptation (wrongful lust) as any homosexual. I'm certainly not able to get up on a box and claim that I'm better than they.

    Either way, such a god is not worthy of worship.
    On the contrary - all of our sins are our own choosing. A God who accepts bitter pain on himself to save us from the consequences of our own decisions - to offer us a way out, is indeed a God worth all the worship we can offer.

    10. So if churches would just return to being more anti-LGBT, then they'd grow in numbers?
    A) you demonstrate an inability to distinguish between being "anti-LGBT" and "preaching a biblical message about sexuality". However, to the extent that churches perform the latter
    B) yes, they perform significantly better than the churches who liberalize, although
    C) this is mostly due to the liberalizing churches absolutely falling off cliffs in membership.

    Yeah I'm sure that has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that more and more Millennials are tired of this bull**** and are systematically disappearing from churches. Why get up on a Sunday morning just to go be judged when you can have a relaxing morning at the park, the coffee shop, or just lounging around on the sofa?
    This from the man who just finished ranting about how there was so much wrong with the notion that we have given up on sin and now pursue a "if it feels good, do it" philosophy that he can't even describe how wrong it is.

    What's that, that's sinful/immature/whatever? Really? Why does your god care?
    Because He loves us. You. Personally. He thinks it's worth degradation and pain just to reach out to you, to give you a chance.

    Why does he need to be worshipped?
    He doesn't. We need to worship Him.

    What does he get out of it that he wouldn't get otherwise? You should think these things through, will.
    because you are the first person to ask these questions in the history of ever.

    Reality and religion are not always what we perceive them to be, especially when we are trapped inside a bubble of dogmatism.
    Concur.
    Worth noting, Democrats: President Trump will have a Pen and a Phone. #Precedent.

  4. #184
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    Re: Is SSM a "dead" issue, now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251
    11. Actually it's the other way around--I have far more respect for Judaism than for Christianity--but that's a discussion for another time. That being said, however, the Old Testament God is a far more malicious being than the New Testament God. Intolerance, cruelty, mass killings, misogyny, and all sorts of other delightful things are condoned in the Old Testament. At least Jesus didn't walk around and zap everyone he didn't like. (The book of Revelation is an entirely different story, however...)
    Well that's an interesting split. You have far more respect for a faith that you perceive as being far more intolerant, malicious, and bloodthirsty? Do you value those traits?

    12. Oh, man, if you don't think that there's not a hookup culture in a LOT of churches...yeah, you go right on thinking that.
    You get people in the church who abuse sexuality, sure. Christians are sinners who fall prey to temptation just like everyone else. The point, however, was as a matter of belief.

    And TBH, I think one of the very few things we can agree on here is that that kind of behavior really doesn't belong in a church.
    Well enough. Why - however - would you say that?

    13. Good, at least you're consistent. Thankfully America has embraced divorce as "the worst option except for all the others," and we're not going back any time soon.
    Oh yes. Because if there is anything that has been just awesome for America, it's the break up of the family. Children of single parents and children of divorce do awesome.

    But the real reason that few if any churches preach about the "sin of divorce" is what it would do to their membership.
    well, again, the most conservative churches on this issue are the ones that are more broadly retaining or growing their membership.

    14. To do what, liberate myself from religion? There's no real way to answer that question unless you were to do it yourself.
    Interesting. So your answer is that you can't know until you've done it. Except that that is not a rational construct at all - it is an experiential one, perhaps, though it seems far more emotional. But shouldn't you be able to explain rational reasons why something is good and why you should act good that would be apparent and available to all, if your claims about the nature of morality and reason are correct?

    Ironically, people who are the most passionate about their faith tend to be the ones most likely to leave.
    That's interesting - that's not what I've seen at all. The vast majority of the folks who leave are the ones who were fringe / apathetic to begin with.
    Worth noting, Democrats: President Trump will have a Pen and a Phone. #Precedent.

  5. #185
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    Re: Is SSM a "dead" issue, now?

    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    Here's the part of that that you left out:
    Doesn't change a thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    And two men or two women loving each other is not iniquity. THAT is wholly your personal opinion.
    Nope. The Word of God denounces that perversion.
    "Progressives aren't really progressive. They're regressive, all the way back to Sodom and Gomorrah." - author unknown

  6. #186
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    Re: Is SSM a "dead" issue, now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    Hello Logicman!

    How does it feel to know that your beliefs are literally dying out?
    You'll never see it.

    I've also read the Book of Revelation and it's you guys who lose in the end.
    "Progressives aren't really progressive. They're regressive, all the way back to Sodom and Gomorrah." - author unknown

  7. #187
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    Re: Is SSM a "dead" issue, now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Logicman View Post
    You'll never see it.

    I've also read the Book of Revelation and it's you guys who lose in the end.
    I'm amazed how much you are into trying beat people up and damning them into hell. I really don't think your Jesus Christ was so into that.

  8. #188
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    Re: Is SSM a "dead" issue, now?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    People will still act like the sun is going to explode if gays can continue to marry.
    As opposed to the people who thought the sun would explode if they weren't allowed to marry...

  9. #189
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    Re: Is SSM a "dead" issue, now?

    Quote Originally Posted by it's just me View Post
    As opposed to the people who thought the sun would explode if they weren't allowed to marry...
    Who ever said that? Oh wait maybe it was Xtians claiming if gays got married the world would end like Sodom and Gomorrah?

  10. #190
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    Re: Is SSM a "dead" issue, now?

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    Who ever said that? Oh wait maybe it was Xtians claiming if gays got married the world would end like Sodom and Gomorrah?
    Nobody that I know of, those were your words.

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