View Poll Results: Is SSM a "dead" issue, now?

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  • Yes, the issue is settled

    33 51.56%
  • No, there's lots yet to discuss/debate

    27 42.19%
  • Not sure

    2 3.13%
  • What's SSM?

    2 3.13%
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Thread: Is SSM a "dead" issue, now?

  1. #141
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    Re: Is SSM a "dead" issue, now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    If the legislatures had voted to allow ssm then you'd have the anti-ssm side suing to block those decisions. Everyone hates the courts until they can make use of them.
    Huh? Legislatures did vote to allow SSM. Hawaii, New York, Vermont, New Hampshire, all saw legislatures pass gay marriage. In other states, it was passed through referendum (Maine and Maryland, for example). No where that I am aware of were any of these met with the traditional marriage side launching lawsuits designed to block the legislation. The SSM movement was getting what it wanted, but it was too impatient to do it the slow way that involved convincing their fellow citizens of the rightness of their cause, and so they pushed an end-run through the judiciary that, predictably, will result in backlash.

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought
    Meh. NOM would do anything within their power to stop SSM, even if 99% of the country supported it.
    perhaps. But if they'd lost a series of legislative battles? Then they simply would have lost - and done so through the will of the people. Losing through the will of Justice Kennedy is a very different thing, and it shapes and fuels the reaction.


    Someone (I think it was Adonis) pointed out the parallel with Abortion, and it's a good one. Top-down Judicial decisions on controversial social issues do not end debates. Nor will the fight over SSM be pushed solely by the traditional marriage side in the future. Institutions full of people that have built entire careers, entire self-images, and meaning, out of being warriors for The Cause are not going to give up just because they won. They are going to go look for new fights, new villains to highlight in mass emails asking for donations, new ways to continue to justify their existence.

    It only gets uglier from here.
    Worth noting, Democrats: President Trump will have a Pen and a Phone. #Precedent.

  2. #142
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    Re: Is SSM a "dead" issue, now?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Huh? Legislatures did vote to allow SSM. Hawaii, New York, Vermont, New Hampshire, all saw legislatures pass gay marriage. In other states, it was passed through referendum (Maine and Maryland, for example). No where that I am aware of were any of these met with the traditional marriage side launching lawsuits designed to block the legislation. The SSM movement was getting what it wanted, but it was too impatient to do it the slow way that involved convincing their fellow citizens of the rightness of their cause, and so they pushed an end-run through the judiciary that, predictably, will result in backlash.



    perhaps. But if they'd lost a series of legislative battles? Then they simply would have lost - and done so through the will of the people. Losing through the will of Justice Kennedy is a very different thing, and it shapes and fuels the reaction.


    Someone (I think it was Adonis) pointed out the parallel with Abortion, and it's a good one. Top-down Judicial decisions on controversial social issues do not end debates. Nor will the fight over SSM be pushed solely by the traditional marriage side in the future. Institutions full of people that have built entire careers, entire self-images, and meaning, out of being warriors for The Cause are not going to give up just because they won. They are going to go look for new fights, new villains to highlight in mass emails asking for donations, new ways to continue to justify their existence.

    It only gets uglier from here.
    They did indeed block it here after it passed in a popular vote (WA). So then we had to wait until the lawsuit was settled....almost a year. The governor signed the bill (after the Nov vote) in Feb and then it was blocked and marriages couldnt take place until that December.
    "Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free."

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    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  3. #143
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    Re: Is SSM a "dead" issue, now?

    The religious organizations are going to agitate themselves right out of tax exempt status, just watch.
    You can dance without a lawyer

  4. #144
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    Re: Is SSM a "dead" issue, now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    They did indeed block it here after it passed in a popular vote (WA). So then we had to wait until the lawsuit was settled....almost a year. The governor signed the bill (after the Nov vote) in Feb and then it was blocked and marriages couldnt take place until that December.
    They got enough signatures on a petition to put the issue to a popular referendum, which they lost. IOW, no, they didn't sue, but rather recognized the legitimacy of the people to determine how they would be governed.
    Worth noting, Democrats: President Trump will have a Pen and a Phone. #Precedent.

  5. #145
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    Re: Is SSM a "dead" issue, now?

    I selected "No' but not because I think there's still lots yet to discuss or debate but rather because I know some politicians, pundits and religious zealots won't let the issue go. Just like the abortion issue, they'll keep chipping away until they find that crack they can wedge some piece of cleverly constructed legislation through.

    Sidenote: Yes, I'm pro-choice, but NOT because I embrace the idea of ending the development of life in its early stages or that I believe in all forms of birth control or because I don't believe that all life is a precious gift from God [however you define Him]. I just believe that the right to determine the path of your life (women) as a sentient being is important and as long as you have that Constitutionally protected right to "liberty (freedom to choose)" and the "pursuit of happiness" within the laws of good social order and discipline, you (women) deserve the right to make such a choice that benefits you. Just thought I'd expand on that because I'm sure somebody somewhere will ask or turn the thread towards the abortion issue now that the topic has been broached...again.
    Last edited by LaughAtTheWorld; 07-11-15 at 12:16 PM. Reason: User's request
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  6. #146
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    Re: Is SSM a "dead" issue, now?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Institutions include people that have built entire careers, entire self-images, and meaning, out of being warriors for The Cause. They're not going to give up just because they won. They are going to go look for new fights, new villains to highlight in mass emails asking for donations, new ways to continue to justify their existence.

    SSM isn't dead. It's about to get ugly.
    As someone who vehemently supports SSM I completely agree with this. We've created an industry out of righteous indignation and victimhood in this country and I cannot begin to imagine that those who have built their careers out of advocacy will simply drift into different lines of work. Its why while I know advocacy groups are necessary I generally dislike them.

  7. #147
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    Re: Is SSM a "dead" issue, now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Logicman View Post
    Adulterers 'love' too, but that doesn't mean it's right.

    "Love..does not rejoice in iniquity." - 1 Corinthians 13 NKJV
    Hello Logicman!

    How does it feel to know that your beliefs are literally dying out?

  8. #148
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    Re: Is SSM a "dead" issue, now?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    They got enough signatures on a petition to put the issue to a popular referendum, which they lost. IOW, no, they didn't sue, but rather recognized the legitimacy of the people to determine how they would be governed.
    We, the people of WA St, voted on it and it passed. So it was just useless and a waste to do what they did. Spiteful.

    If the people voted on it, that is 'popular.'
    "Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free."

    "No, you'll be *a* judge of that, just like everyone else who reads it."
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  9. #149
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    Re: Is SSM a "dead" issue, now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    As someone who vehemently supports SSM I completely agree with this. We've created an industry out of righteous indignation and victimhood in this country and I cannot begin to imagine that those who have built their careers out of advocacy will simply drift into different lines of work. Its why while I know advocacy groups are necessary I generally dislike them.
    I would have a hard time imagining that as well.
    Worth noting, Democrats: President Trump will have a Pen and a Phone. #Precedent.

  10. #150
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    Re: Is SSM a "dead" issue, now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    We, the people of WA St, voted on it and it passed. So it was just useless and a waste to do what they did. Spiteful.
    well, I'm not much on mind-reading. Can you link to where they recognized it was useless and they were just doing it out of spite?

    If the people voted on it, that is 'popular.'
    That's correct. And, contra his claims, traditional marriage advocates then did not sue to try to overturn the will of the populace because they didn't like the result.
    Worth noting, Democrats: President Trump will have a Pen and a Phone. #Precedent.

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