View Poll Results: Do you feel Christians are Discriminated against in America?

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  • Yes

    11 15.07%
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    62 84.93%
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Thread: Do you feel Christians are Discriminated against in America?

  1. #271
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    Re: Do you feel Christians are Discriminated against in America?

    Quote Originally Posted by rationality View Post
    Do you think they are?
    Speaking as an atheist who's not very fond of religion at all, yes, Christians do get discriminated against. Particularly denominations such as Jehovahs Witnesses or Mormons.

    They do not get discriminated against anywhere near as much as any other religion (or non-religion), and also enjoy far more privileges than any religion (or non-religion).
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    Re: Do you feel Christians are Discriminated against in America?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    I wouldn't be insulted at all. I'll admit to being a bit skeptical, however: I'd think that if evidence existed for God I would have heard of it by now. Then again I don't claim to keep up with all the latest scientific quarterlies.
    I will offer the only evidence I have for believing their could be a God. Not that their is a God, but that their could be.

    Leaving all religions out of the conversation, lets just focus on the existence of God. Not Christian, not jewish, or muslim or anything else. Just God. Not heaven or hell or afterlife or commandments, or SSM. Nothing but God as someone/thing that created the universe.

    My very simple logic is based on my agreement on these 3 statements:

    The universe exists.
    For something to exists it must have been created.
    If something was created then someone/something created it.

    Since I believe that since someone/something created the universe and at its core a God is someone/something who created there universe, I believe there is a God.
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  3. #273
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    Re: Do you feel Christians are Discriminated against in America?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    We can certainly have a conversation about it, but whereas we can discuss specifics and present evidence, the religious can't do that, they have no evidence, they only have blind faith. They believe they're right because they get an emotional high out of believing it. They didn't objectively evaluate the evidence and reach a conclusion based on research, if they did, they'd have no use for faith. As such, they have earned no respect for their critical thinking skills.

    I accept that the Huckabees and Carsons of the world really do believe what they believe. I also think that what they believe is absurd and ridiculous. They cannot defend their views rationally. Until they can, why should anyone give them what they have not earned?
    That is your argument as a justification for the discrimination. But unless you can show how you apply the same standard to EVERY candidate you vote for--in other words to be wrong about something or inability to prove what they think or believe is an automatic disqualification, I stand on my conviction that you are discriminating against Christians.
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    Re: Do you feel Christians are Discriminated against in America?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    Except for all those times that they do. Huckabee specifically is, right now, championing for states to refuse to comply with the constitutional protections of SSM, because of his religious beliefs. He is doing that right now. He is saying that his religious beliefs should trump the constitution. He is doing it today.

    <snip>

    .
    Is he? Or is he correct that the executive branch and SCOTUS overstepped their constitutional authority in imposing SSM marriage on all the states? Here we have a legitimate debate.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  5. #275
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    Re: Do you feel Christians are Discriminated against in America?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreton View Post
    I will offer the only evidence I have for believing their could be a God. Not that their is a God, but that their could be.

    Leaving all religions out of the conversation, lets just focus on the existence of God. Not Christian, not jewish, or muslim or anything else. Just God. Not heaven or hell or afterlife or commandments, or SSM. Nothing but God as someone/thing that created the universe.

    My very simple logic is based on my agreement on these 3 statements:

    The universe exists.
    For something to exists it must have been created.
    If something was created then someone/something created it.


    Since I believe that since someone/something created the universe and at its core a God is someone/something who created there universe, I believe there is a God.
    I've bolded the core of your argument.

    This is an argument from design, and is an outmoded approach because it worked better in a time when our understanding of the universe determined that if a thing exists, then it has a creator (see Clockmaker's Analogy). However, with the advent of our understanding of evolution we discovered that life could arise and evolve without the guidance of an overt God. Basic chemistry and biology explains it and predicts it. It's why modern medicine even works. That means that whereas before we had one possible choice for the creation of the universe (god), today we have two: god and, well, hell if I know. But basically if we know that life can be created and evolve without a Designer, and were in fact even wrong about this assumption in the first place, then we have to seriously entertain the possibility that the creation of the universe came about without a Designer as well.

    So it's not a guaranteed thing that if something exists then it must have been created. And it's absolutely not guaranteed that there is a "someone" in that creation. Occam's Razor, based on what we know today, would lead us to naturally conclude that some other avenue resulted in the creation of the universe.
    Last edited by Cardinal; 06-29-15 at 04:47 PM.

  6. #276
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    Re: Do you feel Christians are Discriminated against in America?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    I wouldn't be insulted at all. I'll admit to being a bit skeptical, however: I'd think that if evidence existed for God I would have heard of it by now. Then again I don't claim to keep up with all the latest scientific quarterlies.
    Hm. That's fine. I was just curious. Some people seem to take offense to it.
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  7. #277
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    Re: Do you feel Christians are Discriminated against in America?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreton View Post
    Why is hypocrisy when Christians do it but not others? We setting 2 different standards for some reason?

    For example:

    Christian mocks Athiest for having different beliefs = them being a dick (and i agree)
    Athiest mocks Christan for having different beliefs = Ok, funny, acceptable to some of you.

    Why is that?

    The only thing I can think of is you think it is wrong for people to be intolerant and mock your beliefs, but it is ok for you to do it to others because you are oh so super special.

    (I dont mean you personally since I haven't seen you doing it, I mean that last statement more for those who actively do it on here and there are plenty).
    which makes the point about discrimination more clear. Remember Justice Kennedy, a few days ago, as part of his ruling made "human dignity" a protected right. Does it dignify the Christian to mock his belief?
    "It is only when men contemplate the greatness of God that they can come to realize their own inadequacy." Jean Calvin

  8. #278
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    Re: Do you feel Christians are Discriminated against in America?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    That is your argument as a justification for the discrimination. But unless you can show how you apply the same standard to EVERY candidate you vote for--in other words to be wrong about something or inability to prove what they think or believe is an automatic disqualification, I stand on my conviction that you are discriminating against Christians.
    I do. I take my own set of values and standards and see which candidates measure up to them. Those that stray too far automatically lose my vote. I'm not discriminating against people who believe other things, I'm just not giving them something that they have to earn.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  9. #279
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    Re: Do you feel Christians are Discriminated against in America?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreton View Post
    My very simple logic is based on my agreement on these 3 statements:

    The universe exists.
    For something to exists it must have been created.
    If something was created then someone/something created it.

    Since I believe that since someone/something created the universe and at its core a God is someone/something who created there universe, I believe there is a God.
    It's not real logic, since you don't apply that same logic to God. You're just passing the buck, moving the goal posts, and throwing your hands in the air by attributing everything to God. Saying that 'God did it' is really saying, '**** if I know.'

  10. #280
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    Re: Do you feel Christians are Discriminated against in America?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    I've bolded the core of your argument.

    This is an argument from design, and is an outmoded approach because it worked better in a time when our understanding of the universe determined that if a thing exists, then it has a creator (see Clockmaker's Analogy). However, with the advent of our understanding of evolution we discovered that life could arise and evolve without the guidance of an overt God. Basic chemistry and biology explains it and predicts it. .
    Evolution did happen, but everything evolved from something. It didn't just appear. And with evolution, if you accept the possibility of a God (and I do) then it is not a stretch to say that evolution happened by design, or at the very least designed with the possibility of evolution. And even if God created or put in to place the process to create life, and then evolution happened completely independent, that does not exclude the possibility of a God. It just means that life has taken off beyond control of a God. The existence of God as a creator does not even mean that God knows or cares about human choices, morality, or in this case evolution. God may not even still be alive. Our universe could be a toy created in some cosmic factory, bought for some kid who long ago discarded it for all I know. But I believe, and have never seen anything to dispute, that everything that exists was created.

    That means that whereas before we had one possible choice for the creation of the universe (god), today we have two: god and, well, hell if I know.
    I agree almost completely. But I wouldn't limit it to two. There are probably a countless number of explanations and possibilities that we have not yet evolved enough to yet understand.

    So it's not a guaranteed thing that if something exists then it must have been created.
    Wasn't guaranteeing anything. Just my logic behind why I believe it. I am very accepting of the possibility that I am wrong.

    Occam's Razor, based on what we know today, would lead us to naturally conclude that some other avenue resulted in the creation of the universe.
    I would argue that it would lead us to conclude that some other avenue could have resulted in the creation of the universe.
    “Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.”
    Stephen R. Covey


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