View Poll Results: Do you feel Christians are Discriminated against in America?

Voters
73. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    11 15.07%
  • No

    62 84.93%
Page 24 of 36 FirstFirst ... 14222324252634 ... LastLast
Results 231 to 240 of 354

Thread: Do you feel Christians are Discriminated against in America?

  1. #231
    Sage
    AlbqOwl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    New Mexico
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:10 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    16,182
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Do you feel Christians are Discriminated against in America?

    I didn't read every page of the thread but read enough to get the gist of how the discussion is going.

    A good definition of 'discrimination' comes from the Business Dictionary:
    1.Bias or prejudice resulting in denial of opportunity, or unfair treatment regarding selection, promotion, or transfer. Discrimination is practiced commonly on the grounds of age, disability, ethnicity, origin, political belief, race, religion, sex, etc. factors which are irrelevant to a person's competence or suitability.

    2.Unequal treatment provided to one or more parties on the basis of a mutual accord or some other logical or illogical reason.

    3.Differences in two rates not explainable or justifiable by economic considerations such as costs.

    Read more: What is discrimination? definition and meaning

    And most comprehensive definitions add:
    4. Choice between good and evil, right and wrong, negative and positive, or choices made via preference as to what is appropriate, proper, aesthetically pleasing, etc.

    And I think is in Number 1 or Number 4 that most discrimination against Christians occurs. Christians are much maligned on message boards and characterized as stupid or fanatics or delusional etc. etc. etc. but that is just insulting and not discriminatory to the extent that Christians are denied anything other than respect for their views.

    Christian candidates for office can definitely be discriminated against as a Mike Huckabee or a Ben Carson will be deemed unsuitable for high office because of their Christian views and studies or research done by some organizations will be dismissed as prejudiced or irrelevant because the organizations are founded on Christian values.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  2. #232
    Uncanny
    Paschendale's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    New York City
    Last Seen
    03-31-16 @ 03:08 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Socialist
    Posts
    12,510

    Re: Do you feel Christians are Discriminated against in America?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreton View Post
    People who want to believe in God do see proof all over and see that it fits with their beliefs. Those who don't, don't see or acknowledge it or explain it another way. Perception is a big part of beliefs. But beliefs are just that. Beliefs. If you believe that there is no God, it is still a belief.
    And perception is not a big part of reality. I don't "believe that there is no god". It's not a belief, not anymore than "believing" that JFK is dead. It's real. He was shot in the head. And gods are obviously made up. If they were real, then we would see proof all over even if it didn't fit with a belief someone already held. But we don't.

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    Christian candidates for office can definitely be discriminated against as a Mike Huckabee or a Ben Carson will be deemed unsuitable for high office because of their Christian views and studies or research done by some organizations will be dismissed as prejudiced or irrelevant because the organizations are founded on Christian values.
    No, they're unsuitable for high office because they hold more loyalty to those beliefs than they do to the laws of this country, and because they would seek to impose those beliefs on the rest of us, in direct defiance of the constitution. They're unsuitable for an office where they swear to uphold and defend the constitution, because they make it very clear that they won't.
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

  3. #233
    Sage
    Mach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Texas
    Last Seen
    Today @ 10:25 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    9,834

    Re: Do you feel Christians are Discriminated against in America?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreton View Post
    I agree with the first part. God cannot be proven or disproven. However you cannot assume that if something cannot be proven that it is then false.
    you are almost there! No, it is not an assumption. The only thing that we can know, that cannot be proven or disproven, by definition is something false, i.e. made up. If it were real, you CANNOT claim to know it cannot be proven...because that would be contradictory. So it cannot be real. That's just logic. I can break it down in simple form if you like.

    Big bang cannot be proven for example, doesn't make it fiction. Many things that are accepted cannot be proven. To draw the line here. You have beliefs, which beliefs cannot or have not been proven, and you have facts, which can be proven.
    No, big bang is a scientific theory, that has evidence to support it. It is by definition a claim about REALITY. God as you point out, CANNOT have evidence to support it. There are only two buckets you can put it in. real things - which all have evidence in reality. Non-real things, which are by definition NOT real, and thus any claim about "evidence in reality" is contradictory. There can be no evidence.
    There are not other buckets we can put God in.

    The existence of God, either way in the argument is a belief.
    Existence, in reality, is by definition not equal to "a belief". These are two different concepts, and we have different words to describe them, and they have demonstrably different meanings.
    Existence logically comes before belief. You cannot believe if you do not exist. And you cannot rationally believe something exists, when there is no evidence by your own admission, to support that claim.

    No, I don't think it is. Christianity does teach that,
    Yes, you agree Christianity teaches discrimination. Of course it doesn't force people to act on it. It just encourages them to.

    I'm not Christian. I just believe in tolerance. I don't think Christians should be mocking or be intolerant of people with different beliefs, and I don't agree with it when people do it to them.
    You believe false beliefs should be toelrated in science?
    How about schools, should we tolerate teachers teaching demonstrably false things?
    what about hospitals, should they refuse treating someone who is dying because of their "religion"?
    Should you tolerate a christian bomber who blows up clinic where your daughters husband worked?

    Tolerance is neither good nor bad. Tolerance is justifiable in certain situations, and unjustifiable in others. It's good in some situations, and bad in others.

    If you're just "tolerant" always, I don't believe that's a good thing. It's kind of nice to be around I bet though I'm quite tolerant too, but only in situations where I don't think it really matters or in public space. Remember, Christians who push faith-based laws don't just discriminate in the public square though, they go way, way beyond that into the legal square. You tolerate that? For shame.


    I'd like you to go further with this.[/QUOTE]

  4. #234
    Sage
    Cephus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    CA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    28,077

    Re: Do you feel Christians are Discriminated against in America?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreton View Post
    Then it would fall on you to prove your belief is true. You can talk all day about what you have to do or don't have to do. I don't have to prove my beliefs. Neither do you. Neither does anyone. They are beliefs. The fact that two people believe 2 different things doesn't make one except from proving or put burden on the other.

    However, if you are going to call someone else's beliefs idiotic and all the hate you spew about Christians, you are making a definitive statement and then I would ask you to defend your position. You call people idiots and mock their beliefs and I ask you why they are idiots and why you attack them for believing differently than you and all you have is "i don't have to". We are right back to pathetic. Learn a little about tolerance. You cannot prove yoru beliefs any more than I can prove my. Which by your own logic, if you cannot prove your beliefs, then you are calling yourself an idiot.
    If I had a belief, I would. I don't. I just reject your belief based on lack of evidence. I'm not the one making the claim here, the theist is. I'm the one saying I'm unconvinced by their claim.

    Do try again though.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

    Blog me! YouTube me! VidMe me!

  5. #235
    Sage
    Cephus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    CA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    28,077

    Re: Do you feel Christians are Discriminated against in America?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreton View Post
    Are you saying its ok for you to be an intolerant, idiotic, douchebag (by your own words) just because you've been doing it for 8 years?
    No, I'm saying that it's entirely fine to point out stupid positions and unsupported beliefs, in fact, that's what everyone ought to be doing. If everyone cared more about reality and less about their own personal emotional comfort, the world would be a better place.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

    Blog me! YouTube me! VidMe me!

  6. #236
    Sage
    AlbqOwl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    New Mexico
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:10 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    16,182
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Do you feel Christians are Discriminated against in America?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    And perception is not a big part of reality. I don't "believe that there is no god". It's not a belief, not anymore than "believing" that JFK is dead. It's real. He was shot in the head. And gods are obviously made up. If they were real, then we would see proof all over even if it didn't fit with a belief someone already held. But we don't.


    No, they're unsuitable for high office because they hold more loyalty to those beliefs than they do to the laws of this country, and because they would seek to impose those beliefs on the rest of us, in direct defiance of the constitution. They're unsuitable for an office where they swear to uphold and defend the constitution, because they make it very clear that they won't.
    And that's when the discrimination comes in because you have no evidence - zero - nada - zip - that they would impose those beliefs on the rest of us or that they would use their religious beliefs to override the Constitution.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  7. #237
    Sage
    Cephus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    CA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    28,077

    Re: Do you feel Christians are Discriminated against in America?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    And that's when the discrimination comes in because you have no evidence - zero - nada - zip - that they would impose those beliefs on the rest of us or that they would use their religious beliefs to override the Constitution.
    But we don't need evidence they are wrong, they need evidence they are right and barring that evidence, their beliefs are not worth taking seriously. There's no discrimination involved.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

    Blog me! YouTube me! VidMe me!

  8. #238
    Sage
    Kreton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Colorado Springs
    Last Seen
    06-30-17 @ 03:14 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    6,001

    Re: Do you feel Christians are Discriminated against in America?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    And perception is not a big part of reality. I don't "believe that there is no god".
    .
    Yes you do believe there is no God. You cannot prove it, therefore it is a belief. It is something you believe.

    It's not a belief, not anymore than "believing" that JFK is dead. It's real. He was shot in the head.
    You can prove JFK was shot. You can prove JFK is dead. That is not a belief.

    nd gods are obviously made up.
    And that is your belief. To you it is obvious. But you cannot prove you are right, and anyone else is wrong.

    If they were real, then we would see proof all over even if it didn't fit with a belief someone already held. But we don't.
    Many people do see proof. You don't. It is a matter of perception. What someone sees as proof, you do not.
    “Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.”
    Stephen R. Covey


  9. #239
    Sage
    Kreton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Colorado Springs
    Last Seen
    06-30-17 @ 03:14 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    6,001

    Re: Do you feel Christians are Discriminated against in America?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mach View Post
    you are almost there! No, it is not an assumption. The only thing that we can know, that cannot be proven or disproven, by definition is something false, i.e. made up. If it were real, you CANNOT claim to know it cannot be proven...because that would be contradictory. So it cannot be real. That's just logic. I can break it down in simple form if you like.


    No, big bang is a scientific theory, that has evidence to support it. It is by definition a claim about REALITY. God as you point out, CANNOT have evidence to support it. There are only two buckets you can put it in. real things - which all have evidence in reality. Non-real things, which are by definition NOT real, and thus any claim about "evidence in reality" is contradictory. There can be no evidence.
    There are not other buckets we can put God in.


    Existence, in reality, is by definition not equal to "a belief". These are two different concepts, and we have different words to describe them, and they have demonstrably different meanings.
    Existence logically comes before belief. You cannot believe if you do not exist. And you cannot rationally believe something exists, when there is no evidence by your own admission, to support that claim.


    Yes, you agree Christianity teaches discrimination. Of course it doesn't force people to act on it. It just encourages them to.


    You believe false beliefs should be toelrated in science?
    How about schools, should we tolerate teachers teaching demonstrably false things?
    what about hospitals, should they refuse treating someone who is dying because of their "religion"?
    Should you tolerate a christian bomber who blows up clinic where your daughters husband worked?

    Tolerance is neither good nor bad. Tolerance is justifiable in certain situations, and unjustifiable in others. It's good in some situations, and bad in others.

    If you're just "tolerant" always, I don't believe that's a good thing. It's kind of nice to be around I bet though I'm quite tolerant too, but only in situations where I don't think it really matters or in public space. Remember, Christians who push faith-based laws don't just discriminate in the public square though, they go way, way beyond that into the legal square. You tolerate that? For shame.


    I'd like you to go further with this.
    [/QUOTE]

    I would like to as well, but we are probably on the verge of getting warned for derailing the thread. I would suggest we open this in another place. Would make a for a good discussion.
    “Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.”
    Stephen R. Covey


  10. #240
    Sage
    Cephus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    CA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    28,077

    Re: Do you feel Christians are Discriminated against in America?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreton View Post
    Yes you do believe there is no God. You cannot prove it, therefore it is a belief. It is something you believe.
    It's so nice that we have you to tell us all what we believe, especially right after we tell you that we don't.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

    Blog me! YouTube me! VidMe me!

Page 24 of 36 FirstFirst ... 14222324252634 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •