View Poll Results: My marriage

Voters
49. You may not vote on this poll
  • changed

    3 6.12%
  • is exactly the same

    35 71.43%
  • is better thanks to SCOTUS ruling

    4 8.16%
  • is completely worthless thanks to SCOTUS ruling

    2 4.08%
  • has been ruined thanks to SCOTUS ruling

    2 4.08%
  • I'm divorcing because of SCOTUS ruling

    2 4.08%
  • what ruling? Who's SCOTUS?

    1 2.04%
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Thread: Has your marriage changed since SCOTUS ruling?

  1. #221
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    Re: Has your marriage changed since SCOTUS ruling?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amadeus View Post
    Yes, they do. Especially since your god is not an elected or recognized power within the United States government.
    I find your answer odd, coming from a self described "very liberal".
    Why should the government be involved in the bedroom? That is the real issue here. For some time, same sex couples have been allowed to cohabitate and to call themselves married. This ruling really concerned the special rights given to governmentally approved marriages by the government and the "equality" that these special rights should grant. But think about this. As currently defined, marriage is based on a basically Biblical belief that sex between 2 individuals is so special that it should be only done by adults in a long term loving relationship. And because it is so special , government grants these couples special rights. How archaic is that?

    Before, only hetero couples got these special government issued rights. Now same sex couples do as well. And, as we approach 50% of the adult population being single, many for life, where is the equality for them? Why are special rights given to people who subscribed to the Biblical idea that sex should only be done between 2 people in a long term, loving relationship? What about asexuals, non-sexuals, polygamists, polyandrists, and, most importantly and the biggest group, the people who do not prescribed to the Biblical ideals and are content to have a variety of short term non committed sexual encounters?

    Keep government out of the bedroom by ending all government issued benefits based on this religious concept. The value of "marriage" is from the participants themselves and the esteem in which they hold marriage. No government special benefits need to be required.

  2. #222
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    Re: Has your marriage changed since SCOTUS ruling?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Most of society views marriage as having a value, including societal value.

    You don't have to have sex to get married. Marriage is about establishing a legal kinship, not sex.

    Those that aren't married yet are free to get married if they want the benefits of marriage, of the kinship established by marriage. Just like if you want the benefits established by any other contract with another person.
    I agree with that but society doesn't. Marriage is based on sex. We have laws against siblings marrying and relatives marrying. Yes, one solution would be to allow two sisters to marry each other and get those government benefits. Or an uncle and favored niece or nephew. (former NYC mayor Ed Koch was never married but fond of a niece.) Or close friends. I guess that these people could get the benefits of marriage by doing a number of different things, like health care power of attorney, business partnerships, annuities/insurance, etc.

    If government would drop those laws regarding marriage based on the belief that marriage is about sex than we could go that route but it seems easier and more equal to drop the special rights given to married couples.

  3. #223
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    Re: Has your marriage changed since SCOTUS ruling?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric7216 View Post
    I find your answer odd, coming from a self described "very liberal".
    Why should the government be involved in the bedroom? That is the real issue here. For some time, same sex couples have been allowed to cohabitate and to call themselves married. This ruling really concerned the special rights given to governmentally approved marriages by the government and the "equality" that these special rights should grant. But think about this. As currently defined, marriage is based on a basically Biblical belief that sex between 2 individuals is so special that it should be only done by adults in a long term loving relationship. And because it is so special , government grants these couples special rights. How archaic is that?

    Before, only hetero couples got these special government issued rights. Now same sex couples do as well. And, as we approach 50% of the adult population being single, many for life, where is the equality for them? Why are special rights given to people who subscribed to the Biblical idea that sex should only be done between 2 people in a long term, loving relationship? What about asexuals, non-sexuals, polygamists, polyandrists, and, most importantly and the biggest group, the people who do not prescribed to the Biblical ideals and are content to have a variety of short term non committed sexual encounters?

    Keep government out of the bedroom by ending all government issued benefits based on this religious concept. The value of "marriage" is from the participants themselves and the esteem in which they hold marriage. No government special benefits need to be required.
    Your premise fails because it assumes something that isn't true. Marriage is not based on the biblical belief that sex should only be done between two people in a longterm relationship. Even our own marriage statistics show this to be untrue, given that 3% of people are not virgins when they get married.

    4 Cool Statistics About Abstinence in the USA | WaitingTillMarriage.org

    Marriage is about forming families, legally recognizing, establishing people as family, specifically spouses and inlaws.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  4. #224
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    Re: Has your marriage changed since SCOTUS ruling?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric7216 View Post
    I find your answer odd, coming from a self described "very liberal".
    Why should the government be involved in the bedroom?
    They don't, and my point didn't reflect that. Being allowed a marriage license and having sex are separate issues.

  5. #225
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    Re: Has your marriage changed since SCOTUS ruling?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amadeus View Post
    They don't, and my point didn't reflect that. Being allowed a marriage license and having sex are separate issues.
    So how do people who are not allowed to marry, such as siblings, get these special government issued marriage benefits?

  6. #226
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    Re: Has your marriage changed since SCOTUS ruling?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Your premise fails because it assumes something that isn't true. Marriage is not based on the biblical belief that sex should only be done between two people in a longterm relationship. Even our own marriage statistics show this to be untrue, given that 3% of people are not virgins when they get married.

    4 Cool Statistics About Abstinence in the USA | WaitingTillMarriage.org

    Marriage is about forming families, legally recognizing, establishing people as family, specifically spouses and inlaws.
    Well, simply stating that marriage is not based on biblical beliefs does not make it so. Clearly, IMHO, that is what a lot of this dissent has been about. A lot of people, most of them Christian, believe that the Bible dictates that marriage should be between a man and a woman. The majority of Americans are Christians. One of the 10 Commandments is Thou shalt not commit adultery which sorta implies, IMHO, that marriage is sex-based and sex should be within the marriage. So what is 3% of people are not virgins. I didn't say that people live by their own values all the time. I am sure that you understand that.

    Do you really not see a lot of stuff on both sides of this issue talking about the importance of loving relationships? There seems to be an implied belief in the importance of committed loving relationships.

    But, yeah, again I agree with you that there would be a societal benefit IF marriage had anything to do with families. But that is a disconnect. The LGBT community made that clear that many hetero marriages were childless so the idea that same sex couples can't reproduce is not a valid reason for denying them special marriage rights. IF there were a way to limit marriage type rights only to families with children I would support that. But as it is, marriage is simply a mechanism for many to maximize wealth and increase the inequality of income. About 30% of the income inequality is based on people marrying within their economic class.
    Last edited by Eric7216; 07-02-15 at 12:18 PM.

  7. #227
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    Re: Has your marriage changed since SCOTUS ruling?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post
    The topic of the thread is basically about YOUR marriage and whether or not anything has changed since SCOTUS allowed a subset of a very small percentage of the overall population of America to get married.

    Has YOUR marriage changed? If so, how? Better? Worse? YOUR marriage.

    Who makes better parents isn't the topic of THIS thread. We've all already agreed good parenting isn't determined by your genitalia or who you find sexually attractive.

    There's a crap-ton load of "straight" "parents" out there who have raped, beaten, starved, and murdered their own children, and/or the children of others.

    Being "straight" does not automatically make anyone a good/great/effective parent.

    Likewise, being "gay" does not automatically make someone a bad/poor/ineffective parent.

    So----can we get back to the topic of this thread?

    Has your marriage changed?
    This thread went from marriage to include children long before I posted. But never the less you have felt a need to direct your statement directly at me.
    Please accept my apology for my participation in derailing your thread.

  8. #228
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    Re: Has your marriage changed since SCOTUS ruling?

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    This thread went from marriage to include children long before I posted. But never the less you have felt a need to direct your statement directly at me.
    Please accept my apology for my participation in derailing your thread.
    Lol...no worries. I could have quoted a bunch of people, but you were the last one to post about it.
    Wastin' time, like it was free - Godsmack

  9. #229
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    Re: Has your marriage changed since SCOTUS ruling?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric7216 View Post
    Well, simply stating that marriage is not based on biblical beliefs does not make it so. Clearly, IMHO, that is what a lot of this dissent has been about. A lot of people, most of them Christian, believe that the Bible dictates that marriage should be between a man and a woman. The majority of Americans are Christians. One of the 10 Commandments is Thou shalt not commit adultery which sorta implies, IMHO, that marriage is sex-based and sex should be within the marriage. So what is 3% of people are not virgins. I didn't say that people live by their own values all the time. I am sure that you understand that.

    Do you really not see a lot of stuff on both sides of this issue talking about the importance of loving relationships? There seems to be an implied belief in the importance of committed loving relationships.

    But, yeah, again I agree with you that there would be a societal benefit IF marriage had anything to do with families. But that is a disconnect. The LGBT community made that clear that many hetero marriages were childless so the idea that same sex couples can't reproduce is not a valid reason for denying them special marriage rights. IF there were a way to limit marriage type rights only to families with children I would support that. But as it is, marriage is simply a mechanism for many to maximize wealth and increase the inequality of income. About 30% of the income inequality is based on people marrying within their economic class.
    Marriage existed long before any religion in existence today, particularly the major religions. And it began as a way to establish several things, including legitimacy of children and family ties. Even today, with a practice that started long ago, the Chinese have what's called "ghost marriages" where one or both spouses is dead. It is done so that the families can be legally joined. A childless couple is still a family, they are each other's family.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  10. #230
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    Re: Has your marriage changed since SCOTUS ruling?

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    Morning Captain.
    You keep mentioning ALL this research to support gays raising children but there is also ALL this research out there that says differently. Organizations like the APA and the AMA can be just as political as those in robes on the Supreme Court. I believe it was in the year 1974 maybe 73 the APA was under pressure to remove homosexuality from their list of disorders. So by a vote of 13 trustees, overnight they cured with a vote what they classified as a disorder for over a century and removed it from the list. Did those 13 trustees represent the opinions of every member of the APA? Absolutely not. Did those 5 justices who were politically appointed that took it upon themselves to redefine marriage for this country represent a large portion of citizens in this country? No they did not. It always seems to boil down to a small group of elitists calling the shots for everyone. Take global warming. You have an elite group of scientists telling us the sky is falling. If a scientist dissents they are mocked in hopes of others will not take them seriously. It is as if all things start and end in politics.
    …And meanwhile, nearly everyone fawns over the spectacular new clothes that the Emperor is wearing, not daring to speak the plain and obvious truth that His Majesty is parading around in public stark naked. It's what happens when groupthink and peer pressure masquerade as science.
    The five great lies of the Left Wrong:
    We can be Godless and free. • “Social justice” through forced redistribution of wealth. • Silencing religious opinions counts as “diversity”. • Freedom without moral and personal responsibility. • Civilization can survive the intentional undermining of the family.

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