View Poll Results: Is traditional marriage a Constitutional right?

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  • yes

    11 52.38%
  • no

    10 47.62%
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Thread: traditional marriage

  1. #61
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    Re: traditional marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    Which makes one wonder if there is any original or independent thought or conviction in there someplace. The point is that if we are to be a free people, we must be able to organize our societies and live our lives as WE choose and not as an authoritarian central government dictates. And if that means we get it wrong sometimes, well, then so it goes. The Founders were of a strong conviction that a people given liberty to choose and order their own destinies would get it a lot more right than they would get it wrong. They had no such faith in a self-serving government, however.
    We were never meant to be direct democracies and the Constitution was meant to protect our individual rights as much as states' rights. And moreso when people realized how much the states would try to restrict the individual rights of the people, even moreso than the federal government that the Founders were worried about doing so. The states are still governments. Many of our states now have more people than the entire US did when it was first founded. There is no way to claim that we are better off with a strong state government restricting rights just because some people want it. Many are quite happy with having state governments limited in what they can do by the Constitution, so long as it is the rights they care about that are being protected for them against state intrusion of those rights.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  2. #62
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    Re: traditional marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    We were never meant to be direct democracies and the Constitution was meant to protect our individual rights as much as states' rights. And moreso when people realized how much the states would try to restrict the individual rights of the people, even moreso than the federal government that the Founders were worried about doing so. The states are still governments. Many of our states now have more people than the entire US did when it was first founded. There is no way to claim that we are better off with a strong state government restricting rights just because some people want it. Many are quite happy with having state governments limited in what they can do by the Constitution, so long as it is the rights they care about that are being protected for them against state intrusion of those rights.
    Yes the timid and needy and dependent are rampant in our modern society. But there are still some of us who understand what self governance means--and it does not mean a pure democracy--but it also does not mean returning to a monarchy or dictatorship or feudal kingdom or other totalitarian government that the Constitution was intended to free us from. Those who think the central government is somehow more noble than the people themselves are willing to sign away all their liberties it seems. Some of us are not ready to do that.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  3. #63
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    Re: traditional marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    Yes the timid and needy and dependent are rampant in our modern society. But there are still some of us who understand what self governance means--and it does not mean a pure democracy--but it also does not mean returning to a monarchy or dictatorship or feudal kingdom or other totalitarian government that the Constitution was intended to free us from. Those who think the central government is somehow more noble than the people themselves are willing to sign away all their liberties it seems. Some of us are not ready to do that.
    We aren't returning to any of those things (monarchy, dictatorship, etc) by ensuring that individuals have their rights protected against the states becoming any of those things that you mentioned. There is no signing away of liberties to ensure that individuals can marry or don't get trampled on by the majority voting against their rights, voting against them simply because they don't like them or don't approve of something they are doing because it violates the religion of the majority (not because it actually furthers any state interest).

    Why do so many try to argue this as a states' rights vs federal powers argument? It isn't. It is a states' rights vs individual rights argument. The federal government has little to nothing to do with this issue except in that they are there to decide which side should have their rights prevail.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  4. #64
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    Re: traditional marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Fearandloathing View Post
    Once again a complete miss on all points.
    Well, if you took the Esther soaked rags out from under the floor mat for a few minutes you might be able to follow what I'm saying.

    Marriage is not a governmental concern. It is not something it needs to concern itself with at all.
    Spin Proof

  5. #65
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    Re: traditional marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Razor View Post
    Well, if you took the Esther soaked rags out from under the floor mat for a few minutes you might be able to follow what I'm saying.

    Marriage is not a governmental concern. It is not something it needs to concern itself with at all.

    The sure sign of losing a debate is to open with insult.

    We're done here.
    "Small people talk about people, average people talk about events, great people talk about ideas" Eleanor Roosevelt

  6. #66
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    Re: traditional marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    Those who fought for, forged, and ratified the U.S. Constitution did not intend for the federal government to have ANY jurisdiction on how the states would organize their societies or how the people would be required to live their lives. They certainly did not intend that ANY federal court have ANY jurisdiction on the marriage laws or customs in any state. And legal precedent can be just as corrupt as any new laws the courts illegally take upon themselves to establish. The courts were intended to interpret and rule on existing law period.
    The "Civil War" pretty much ended the ideals of states rights. Well before that the Constitution pretty much knocked around states rights when the Articles of Confederation were over written in favor of the Constitution. This is pretty much where the states sold themselves out to the Federal bureaucracy.
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  7. #67
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    Re: traditional marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Fearandloathing View Post
    The sure sign of losing a debate is to open with insult.

    We're done here.
    Lmao... You've got to be kidding me.. You have q picture of hunter as your avatar, call yourself fear and loathing... And think a reference to ether soaked rags as more insult than light rye humor.

    When you you unbunch your panties let me know

    And I don't call "missed on all points, again" as a stand alone statement.. debating.
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  8. #68
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    Re: traditional marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by BrewerBob View Post
    Marriage is not a Constitutional right. Equal treatment under the law is.
    Yep. This.

    All the rest is just hand-wringing and gnashing of teeth.

  9. #69
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    Re: traditional marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Who is the Supreme Court forcing to get married? Doh!
    Wrong question. Try again. Show us you understand the topic.

  10. #70
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    Re: traditional marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by mpg View Post
    This is about a consenting man and a consenting woman who aren't related and are of sound mind and body. Is it a Constitutional right?

    This is not about a church wedding or a private wedding. This is about government marriage.

    I apologize in advance if I haven't made this clear enough.
    The US Constitution is about government power. I don't see where marriage is spoken to as a right.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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