View Poll Results: Is traditional marriage a Constitutional right?

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  • yes

    11 52.38%
  • no

    10 47.62%
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Thread: traditional marriage

  1. #31
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    Re: traditional marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Fearandloathing View Post
    How long a list have we in what is not specifically mentioned in the constitution?

    Government got involved in marriage in the late middle ages when kings started using it to be bigger kings. It became written law when money became involved.

    It has always been the church who tried to control who would marry.

    If you take away the assets and money equation of marriage, government is irrelevant
    That's not the history in this country. And the history you cite applied to kings and nobility only, not the masses. Massachusetts was the first state to institute licensing for marriage, and it slowwwly expanded to other states from there.

    In some states, common law is still recognized, requiring no licensing from the state.

    As for how long the list is for extra-constitutional issues... It's a ridiculous question.

  2. #32
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    Re: traditional marriage

    I agree with the ruling from the Supreme Court on this marriage issue...based on the 14th Amendment and, more specifically, upon the concept of incorporation as it applies in connection to the States and the US Constitution.

    However, I think the Supreme Court made a mistake and is taking a dangerous course when it confers upon marriage the identification of being a "right". As I said in an earlier post, if the People want marriage to be a right, they should establish that right, under the Constitution, using the prescribed method provided in the Constitution. Since marriage is not established to be a right by the Constitution, the Court doesn't have the ability...nor should it...to give marriage that status.

    This ruling sets a precedence for the establishment of virtually anything else as a "right" if the Court wants to do so...regardless whether it has been established in the Constitution.

    How about a...

    "Right to food"
    "Right to housing"
    "Right to health care"
    "Right to not be offended"
    Last edited by Mycroft; 06-27-15 at 03:11 PM.
    TANSTAAFL

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  3. #33
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    Re: traditional marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    Does the supremacy ring any bells?

    Federal law
    |
    |
    V
    State law

    Or does the ruling in McCulloch v. Maryland also not ring any bells for you?
    There are rulings and there are rulings. Some are terrible rulings as we saw with Dred Scott, Plessy, and Kelo. Some are good rulings such as Brown vs Board of Education. The Courts are made up of men and women who are saint and sinner, wise and ill advised, noble and not so noble, and all come with their own personal beliefs, opinions, and prejudices. Somewhere along the way the Court assigned to itself the privilege of making decisions based on their personal beliefs, opinions, and prejudices rather than strict interpretation of the law as intended. Once it did that it stepped outside of its intended boundaries and it has never returned to them.

    So don't cite case law to me as evidence of what is right and wrong or what I should believe. I do not and will not make infallible gods of the courts that must be bowed down to and obeyed no matter what.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  4. #34
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    Re: traditional marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    Those who fought for, forged, and ratified the U.S. Constitution did not intend for the federal government to have ANY jurisdiction on how the states would organize their societies or how the people would be required to live their lives. They certainly did not intend that ANY federal court have ANY jurisdiction on the marriage laws or customs in any state. And legal precedent can be just as corrupt as any new laws the courts illegally take upon themselves to establish. The courts were intended to interpret and rule on existing law period.
    And then there was this thing called the Civil War. But there actually were some Founding fathers who wanted a stronger federal government from the beginning.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  5. #35
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    Re: traditional marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    The Supreme Court has stated that Marriage is a constitutional right, thus its a constitutional right. That is how our system of government works in this country.
    They didn't say marriage was a constitutional right, they said that EQUALITY in marriage was a constitutional right. If one group of people can get married, all people can get married. You cannot discriminate against people on the basis of sexual orientation. That is how our system of government works in this country.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  6. #36
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    Re: traditional marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    I'm not disagreeing, but how would a civil union be deemed unequal?
    Because it is being "offered" by a) those with no actual authority to do so and b) only to try to appease the pro ssm side once the anti side realized the tide turned against them. It was banned by most of those states that put into place ssm bans and was never recognized by the federal government as equivalent to marriage.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  7. #37
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    Re: traditional marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    It is taken more lightly than it used to because of no fault divorces, not because the government recognizes a marriage.
    Exactly. Marriage is way to easy to get into and way too easy to get out of.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  8. #38
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    Re: traditional marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    There are rulings and there are rulings. Some are terrible rulings as we saw with Dred Scott, Plessy, and Kelo. Some are good rulings such as Brown vs Board of Education. The Courts are made up of men and women who are saint and sinner, wise and ill advised, noble and not so noble, and all come with their own personal beliefs, opinions, and prejudices. Somewhere along the way the Court assigned to itself the privilege of making decisions based on their personal beliefs, opinions, and prejudices rather than strict interpretation of the law as intended. Once it did that it stepped outside of its intended boundaries and it has never returned to them.

    So don't cite case law to me as evidence of what is right and wrong or what I should believe. I do not and will not make infallible gods of the courts that must be bowed down to and obeyed no matter what.
    My response is the same one the author Kurt Vonnegut used whenever someone died in his book slaughterhouse five

    "So it goes"
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  9. #39
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    Re: traditional marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    And then there was this thing called the Civil War. But there actually were some Founding fathers who wanted a stronger federal government from the beginning.
    Not a single one of the Founders got everything they wanted in the Constitution and most likely every single one had to compromise and accept some phrase or clause that they did not think should be there. What they did finally mostly agree on--a few never agreed to sign the final document--was the original Constitution that everybody felt they could live with and that would accomplish at least most of what they wanted to accomplish and could sell to the folks back home, most especially after the Bill of Rights was added. The document they adopted was brilliantly conceived and allowed the most amazing nation the world to flourish with people who governed themselves.

    I believe they would ALL to a man be rolling in their graves at the mere suggestion of any part of the federal government, let alone the Supreme Court, dictating to the people what marriage must be and what the people were required to accept. At the same time they may have agreed or disagreed with whatever decisions the people made on that issue themselves but would have allowed the people to decide.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  10. #40
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    Re: traditional marriage

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Because it is being "offered" by a) those with no actual authority to do so and b) only to try to appease the pro ssm side once the anti side realized the tide turned against them. It was banned by most of those states that put into place ssm bans and was never recognized by the federal government as equivalent to marriage.
    Good, thank you, I was wondering. I admit I haven't kept up with all SSM discussions. We all have priorities on which battle to fight and SSM just wasn't one of mine. But I'm glad for the Gay community. I'm old enough to remember in the 1970s when Gays were still getting arrested for just being Gay and now here they are. It was impressive how they organized and just kept at it until they won. Congratulations to the Gay communitee, well done.
    Last edited by Moot; 06-27-15 at 03:47 PM.

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