View Poll Results: which are Constitutional rights?

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  • SSM

    12 23.53%
  • polygamy

    0 0%
  • both

    18 35.29%
  • neither

    18 35.29%
  • undecided/other

    3 5.88%
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Thread: the right to marry whoever

  1. #81
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    Re: the right to marry whoever

    Quote Originally Posted by Superfly View Post
    Of course. Looks like most states don't require it anymore, but from what I understand, it was primarily done to ward off future birth defects, if the parents weren't compatible.

    Chart: State Marriage License and Blood Test Requirements | Nolo.com
    Traditionally, it was to check for STDs. In those days, you were not supposed to have sex until you get married, so testing before marriage was supposedly equivalent to getting tested before you have sex with somebody without protection for the first time, which kind of makes sense. But, I think it also had some darker functions, like outing women for not being virgins before the guy signs on the dotted line or preventing somebody who cheats on their spouse and gets an STD from claiming that they must have had it all along.

  2. #82
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    Re: the right to marry whoever

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    No point in keeping it as a public instrument anymore, though. It had been losing its societal value for quite some time and it was becoming difficult to justify the level of government support. But now that officially it is no longer the instrument to guaranty reproduction? It seems sort of like arguing that a right to eat means there must be free popcorn at the movies.
    It never was about some sort of "guarantee" at reproduction. What makes you think that it ever was? Even in historical times it was more about property than reproduction. Even today it is somewhat about property. Ex: inheritance rights. Marriage is also about other more important things, like love, companionship, and commitment. And you're willing to throw it away just because two guys or two girls want the same thing in a non-heterosexual way?
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  3. #83
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    Re: the right to marry whoever

    Quote Originally Posted by maquiscat View Post
    Incorrect, the nature of polygamous relationships suggest no such thing. The nature of certain religious beliefs that also believe in polygyny suggest not everyone is consenting, or at least doing so under duress. Now the face of polygamy, as portrayed by the media, might make the suggestion, but that is due to bias and limited coverage.
    Because of how rare polygamy is in the first place within the developed world, I'm not sure what we have to look at to determine whether or not they tend to be consensual. But given the countries that do have legal polygamy, you can understand my concerns that at least in these countries, not everyone in a polygamous union is living a happy married life and is treated with respect.

    Quote Originally Posted by tuhaybey View Post
    Polyamorous relationships, at least in modern times, are no less likely to be consensual. Maybe even the opposite- people who are in them tend to go to great lengths to seek them out. I don't see any problem with the law recognizing polyamorous relationships. Who does it hurt? If consenting adults make a choice about their personal lives that doesn't hurt anybody else, I don't really see what business anybody has outlawing it.
    See my response to maquiscat. If a polygamous union is fully consensual, I don't have a problem with legal recognition of it, but is there even a legitimate movement pushing for such a thing?
    Social democrat is no longer an accurate description of my views.

  4. #84
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    Re: the right to marry whoever

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    It never was about some sort of "guarantee" at reproduction. What makes you think that it ever was? Even in historical times it was more about property than reproduction. Even today it is somewhat about property. Ex: inheritance rights. Marriage is also about other more important things, like love, companionship, and commitment. And you're willing to throw it away just because two guys or two girls want the same thing in a non-heterosexual way?
    Of course it was about guaranteeing stable reproduction of the group. At least in economic and sociological terms. That is why so many surviving societies use that instrument and not others. But we have created game rules that no longer warrant the subsidies and protection of that institution, especially now, that we are making a mock of it. Therefore is should be removed from government interference.

  5. #85
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    Re: the right to marry whoever

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    Of course it was about guaranteeing stable reproduction of the group. At least in economic and sociological terms. That is why so many surviving societies use that instrument and not others. But we have created game rules that no longer warrant the subsidies and protection of that institution, especially now, that we are making a mock of it. Therefore is should be removed from government interference.
    You can say it was about reproduction all that you want. Doesn't mean that it is true. But hey, I'll play for awhile. Prove with a valid historical source that marriage between one man and one woman has the main role of reproduction. Good luck on that. You're going to need it.

    Edit: BTW how is SSM making a mockery of marriage? If anything wanting it as bad as they did shows that it was worth it to them to fight for it. Which means they hold it in high esteem. Perhaps more since they actually did have to fight for it and it wasn't just handed to them.
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  6. #86
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    Re: the right to marry whoever

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Incest has deleterious impact on potential offspring. Two gays marrying does not. hence the difference
    I haven't done a lot of research on this, but it has always been my impression that incest doesn't really cause a lot of problems until after several generations of repeated instances. A "one off" incestual relationship is relatively unlikely to produce any harm.
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  7. #87
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    Re: the right to marry whoever

    Quote Originally Posted by maquiscat View Post
    right now the only problem with making polygamy legal is all the laws are written with the two person marriage in mind and as such do not address issues when the marriage contains more than two. Divorce, property and children issues are suddenly vastly more complicated and not covered under law. Thus such legal changes must be made prior to polygamy becoming legal.
    That would have to be ironed out, but it could be and shouldn't be used as an excuse to not allow it.
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  8. #88
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    Re: the right to marry whoever

    Quote Originally Posted by katiegrrl0 View Post
    Government should not be in the marriage business.
    That would suit me just fine.
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  9. #89
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    Re: the right to marry whoever

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I agree but marriage status is recognized by government and creates certain tax advantages. Now I oppose all and every estate or inheritance or death tax but a spouse takes stuff free of the death tax that a friend does not. so I suggest that the state recognition is necessary
    I have long favored a pure flat tax, which would render the marriage tax issue moot.
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  10. #90
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    Re: the right to marry whoever

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    This ruling finally grants equality for the last minority that has been legally discriminated against into the 21st century. Along with the overturning of DOMA, this ruling finally gives homosexuals equal rights to openly serve in the military, to marry and receive all the legal and financial benefits therein, to have their relationships treated with dignity. My only disappointment is that Roberts voted with the SCOTUS bigots, that I'd long since written off as ever voting to grant full equality under the law to homosexuals.

    As for the rest of this poll, I vote "yes", consenting adults should have the right to marry each other regardless of race, religion, ethnicity, sexual orientation or familial relationships (although genetic problems and the "ick" factor make this a fairly rare potential). Polygamy? If they are consenting adults and not brain-washed teenagers, of course. Who the hell are any of us to proclaim edicts about who somebody else has the right to love, and how they choose to create their family?
    You mean we've finally reached a point where all issues have been solved and we can now relax and move on? Sweet!
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