View Poll Results: which are Constitutional rights?

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  • SSM

    12 23.53%
  • polygamy

    0 0%
  • both

    18 35.29%
  • neither

    18 35.29%
  • undecided/other

    3 5.88%
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Thread: the right to marry whoever

  1. #51
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    Re: the right to marry whoever

    Quote Originally Posted by maquiscat View Post
    Finally, incest laws do not limit themselves to blood relations. To use my usual Brady Bunch example, there would have been no issues with Greg and Marcia marrying or having sex. Yet many states have laws that would prevent such a pairing, even if they were already adults when their parents married.
    It varies by state. A lot of states actually set the standard based on combinations where the risk of birth defects gets too high, or at least they set it at whatever scientists thought was the line for birth defects at the time.

  2. #52
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    Re: the right to marry whoever

    Quote Originally Posted by tuhaybey View Post
    Polyamorous relationships, at least in modern times, are no less likely to be consensual. Maybe even the opposite- people who are in them tend to go to great lengths to seek them out. I don't see any problem with the law recognizing polyamorous relationships. Who does it hurt? If consenting adults make a choice about their personal lives that doesn't hurt anybody else, I don't really see what business anybody has outlawing it.
    right now the only problem with making polygamy legal is all the laws are written with the two person marriage in mind and as such do not address issues when the marriage contains more than two. Divorce, property and children issues are suddenly vastly more complicated and not covered under law. Thus such legal changes must be made prior to polygamy becoming legal.
    Bi, Poly, Switch. I'm not indecisive, I'm greedy!

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    Re: the right to marry whoever

    Quote Originally Posted by tuhaybey View Post
    It varies by state. A lot of states actually set the standard based on combinations where the risk of birth defects gets too high, or at least they set it at whatever scientists thought was the line for birth defects at the time.
    Please show me a state where the deciding factor of whether a couple can have sex/get married or not is based upon a risk factor. There is not one state in the union that places risk factor as the criteria, unless there has been a new law in he past year or so. To use such a risk factor would mean that a non-consanguineous couple could be denied marriage/sex based upon that risk factor.
    Bi, Poly, Switch. I'm not indecisive, I'm greedy!

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    Re: the right to marry whoever

    Quote Originally Posted by maquiscat View Post
    You must have a very strange definition of "intimate union", for it not to apply to same sex couples. Please do enlighten the rest of us as to your unique take on this phrase.
    Sexually compatible. Teleology. Puzzle pieces.
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  5. #55
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    Re: the right to marry whoever

    Government should not be in the marriage business.
    The flame that is between us could set every soul on fire. I would love to take that heat and let's fill the whole world with desire.
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    Re: the right to marry whoever

    Quote Originally Posted by maquiscat View Post
    right now the only problem with making polygamy legal is all the laws are written with the two person marriage in mind and as such do not address issues when the marriage contains more than two. Divorce, property and children issues are suddenly vastly more complicated and not covered under law. Thus such legal changes must be made prior to polygamy becoming legal.
    Yeah, that's true. Agreed.

    Quote Originally Posted by maquiscat View Post
    Please show me a state where the deciding factor of whether a couple can have sex/get married or not is based upon a risk factor. There is not one state in the union that places risk factor as the criteria, unless there has been a new law in he past year or so. To use such a risk factor would mean that a non-consanguineous couple could be denied marriage/sex based upon that risk factor.
    Sure, for example, Kentucky's law is:

    "530.020 Incest.
    (1) A person is guilty of incest when he or she has sexual intercourse or deviate
    sexual intercourse, as defined in KRS 510.010, with a person whom he or she
    knows to be an ancestor, descendant, uncle, aunt, brother, or sister. The
    relationships referred to herein include blood relationships of either the whole
    or half blood without regard to legitimacy, relationship of parent and child by
    adoption, relationship of stepparent and stepchild, and relationship of
    stepgrandparent and stepgrandchild"

    Louisiana:

    "78. Incest

    A. Incest is the marriage to, or sexual intercourse with, any ascendant or descendant, brother or sister, uncle or niece, aunt or nephew, with knowledge of their relationship.

    B. The relationship must be by consanguinity, but it is immaterial whether the parties to the act are related to one another by the whole or half blood."

    Those are pretty good descriptions of the line where the risk of birth defect is noteworthy. Technically, they should add on first cousin twice over- meaning that they are a cousin on two sides- e.g., they are your father's niece and your mother's niece, that apparently carries a risk too, but isn't included in those statutes. Presumably the statutes came before that was identified.

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    Re: the right to marry whoever

    Quote Originally Posted by Radical View Post
    Sexually compatible. Teleology. Puzzle pieces.
    Same sex couple are sexually compatible with each other. Well some are, and some aren't just as some opposite sex couples are not sexually compatible. Your "puzzle pieces" idea a a red herring at best. Procreation is nothing when it comes to sex or marriage. Outside of procreation the male/female thing is meaningless, save in light of one's personal religious calling. Intimacy occurs regardless of the genders involved. Additionally, intimacy can refer to the physical or emotional aspects, or even both. I've been physically intimate with women and not emotionally, while I am emotionally intimate with my husband but not physically.
    Bi, Poly, Switch. I'm not indecisive, I'm greedy!

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    Re: the right to marry whoever

    Quote Originally Posted by katiegrrl0 View Post
    Government should not be in the marriage business.
    Actually they have quite a vested interested in the tracking of non blood relationships, but marriage and adoption. The entire basis of many marriage rights, such as hospital visitation and not testifying against your spouse, are based not on the social/religious marriage but upon the legal one. What government should not be in the business of is applying laws only to certain groups.
    Bi, Poly, Switch. I'm not indecisive, I'm greedy!

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    Re: the right to marry whoever

    Quote Originally Posted by maquiscat View Post
    Actually they have quite a vested interested in the tracking of non blood relationships, but marriage and adoption. The entire basis of many marriage rights, such as hospital visitation and not testifying against your spouse, are based not on the social/religious marriage but upon the legal one. What government should not be in the business of is applying laws only to certain groups.
    All that said government should not be in the business of marriage it should be a legal contract between consenting adults no matter how many there are. I do not want the government involved in my love relationships period. The personal legal contract would take care of all you mentioned. No need for government IMO.
    The flame that is between us could set every soul on fire. I would love to take that heat and let's fill the whole world with desire.
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    Re: the right to marry whoever

    Quote Originally Posted by tuhaybey View Post
    Sure, for example, Kentucky's law is:

    "530.020 Incest.
    (1) A person is guilty of incest when he or she has sexual intercourse or deviate
    sexual intercourse, as defined in KRS 510.010, with a person whom he or she
    knows to be an ancestor, descendant, uncle, aunt, brother, or sister. The
    relationships referred to herein include blood relationships of either the whole
    or half blood without regard to legitimacy, relationship of parent and child by
    adoption, relationship of stepparent and stepchild, and relationship of
    stepgrandparent and stepgrandchild"

    Louisiana:

    "78. Incest

    A. Incest is the marriage to, or sexual intercourse with, any ascendant or descendant, brother or sister, uncle or niece, aunt or nephew, with knowledge of their relationship.

    B. The relationship must be by consanguinity, but it is immaterial whether the parties to the act are related to one another by the whole or half blood."

    Those are pretty good descriptions of the line where the risk of birth defect is noteworthy. Technically, they should add on first cousin twice over- meaning that they are a cousin on two sides- e.g., they are your father's niece and your mother's niece, that apparently carries a risk too, but isn't included in those statutes. Presumably the statutes came before that was identified.
    Neither of these laws carries any real consideration for risk factor. As noted before if two sisters get it on, they are in violation of the laws above, but there is no blood risk factors in play. Additionally, the Kentucky laws clearly states that non blood related relatives, step and adopted, are also prohibited. Again no real concern about risk factors.

    A blood related couple could well end up with no risk factors. The issue with consanguineous reproduction is the higher probability that both participants acquired a given genetic trait from the parents that will result in a birth defect. But that also means that there is a probability of one or both not having that trait. If it is a trait that needs only one gene, i .e. a dominant gene, then that person is a risk whether they engage in consanguineous reproduction or not.

    Any law that is concerned about a given level of risk, would have that law apply to both consanguineous and non-consanguineous couples.
    Bi, Poly, Switch. I'm not indecisive, I'm greedy!

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