View Poll Results: Which would you support on federal or state property?

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  • Confederate and black power flags

    2 4.88%
  • Only confederate

    5 12.20%
  • Only black power

    0 0%
  • neither

    34 82.93%
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Thread: If you support the government flying the confederate flag......

  1. #41
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    Re: If you support the government flying the confederate flag......

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    This isn't about winning.
    This is about accuracy.
    The flag didn't represent hate. That is spin that needs to be corrected.

    So let me ask.
    When the black folks were sold into slavery (which was legal) was that an act of racism or just legal commerce? Hell, it is even happening in today's day and age.
    When black folks in this country owned slaves was that racism?
    When the Black Moors captured and enslaved over a million white folks, was that racism?

    Even though folks did think less of slaves, slavery wasn't based on hate or racism and neither was the desire to keep a legal product legal.
    Since the other person hasn't replied, is there anyone else who would like to answer the questions posed?
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
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  2. #42
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    Re: If you support the government flying the confederate flag......

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreton View Post
    If you support the government flying the confederate flag would you also support flying these flags on federal property as a symbol of pride and history? As someone already pointed out, removing the words on the pictures. Just using the symbols themselves.

    Attachment 67186212Attachment 67186213
    The only flag our government should fly is the American flag and the flags of the states those government buildings are in.Our government should not be flying other countries flags and the flags of special interests groups.
    ,
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

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  3. #43
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    Re: If you support the government flying the confederate flag......

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    The only flag our government should fly is the American flag and the flags of the states those government buildings are in.Our government should not be flying other countries flags and the flags of special interests groups.
    ,
    That sounds all well and good...and I agree with that, to a certain extent. But there will be situations that will test your attitude.

    For example, let's suppose the City of Charleston has a parade...maybe a 4th of July parade...and a group of Civil War enacters want to participate. Should the city refuse them if they carry that flag?

    Or, for example, LGBT folks want to take part in a city-sponsored parade...should they be allowed to fly their rainbow flag?

    I know you are talking about government buildings and I'm talking about parades, but this whole Charleston thing is about a war memorial. The only thing they all have in common is government involvement.
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    Re: If you support the government flying the confederate flag......

    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    For example, let's suppose the City of Charleston has a parade...maybe a 4th of July parade...and a group of Civil War enacters want to participate... Or, for example, LGBT folks want to take part in a city-sponsored parade...should they be allowed to fly their rainbow flag?
    Both groups should just fly this flag and problem solved. I can't imagine anyone possibly objecting to it.

    If you support the government flying the confederate flag......-gay-battle-flag-jpg
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    Re: If you support the government flying the confederate flag......

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreton View Post
    If you support the government flying the confederate flag would you also support flying these flags on federal property as a symbol of pride and history? As someone already pointed out, removing the words on the pictures. Just using the symbols themselves.

    Attachment 67186212Attachment 67186213
    It is in fact a difficult call. What is a government allowed to do? Where draw the line? This is partisan political expression as sure as Obama saying that people can keep their insurance policies.

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    Re: If you support the government flying the confederate flag......

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Since the other person hasn't replied, is there anyone else who would like to answer the questions posed?
    Okay, I'll bite.

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    When the black folks were sold into slavery (which was legal) was that an act of racism or just legal commerce?
    The driving force behind slavery was economic, BUT dehumanizing the slave helps to morally justify having one person work for another under slave conditions. Thus it helps to, say, compare a black man to a monkey. Today we see human trafficking closely linked to “whores” who are completely dehumanized and abused in the sex trade. Same concept.

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    When black folks in this country owned slaves was that racism?
    I don’t think so, no.

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    When the Black Moors captured and enslaved over a million white folks, was that racism?
    In the first place, it’s questionable whether the Moors were “black.” (Most anthropologists would call them “Arab” or “Berber.”) But, to answer your question, when you’re a conquering army you don’t need to morally justify anything. You can pretty much do what you want. I don’t see that situation analogous to that of blacks in the U.S.

    Basically, my view is this. I don’t view the Confederate Battle Flag as “racist” per se. It’s a piece of American history that deserves a place in it, and I think some of the efforts to completely wipe it from our collective conscience are misguided. It’s almost as if there’s an orgy to utterly eradicate it. I find this unfortunate. While some have expropriated it as a symbol of hate and racism, I don't think that's completely historically accurate. Having lived in Mississippi for more than two decades and with deep roots here, it's also viewed by many whites and even some blacks as a symbol of "Southern Pride." BUT the fact is that emblem emerged as a defiant response to federal action regarding blacks, both in the latter part of the 19th Century when Mississippi placed it on its flag after altering its constitution and largely disenfranchising blacks, and during the 1950s when some states incorporated it into their state flags as blow-back to the Civil Rights movement and the forced dismantling of Jim Crow.
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  7. #47
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    Re: If you support the government flying the confederate flag......

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreton View Post
    If you support the government flying the confederate flag would you also support flying these flags on federal property as a symbol of pride and history? As someone already pointed out, removing the words on the pictures. Just using the symbols themselves.
    If they also represented the history and culture of the country, sure. I dont think anyone would day the black panthers flag represents the US, or the confederate flag. This controversy is about a state, which it DOES represent.
    Last edited by jonny5; 06-26-15 at 01:37 PM.

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    Re: If you support the government flying the confederate flag......

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreton View Post
    If you support the government flying the confederate flag would you also support flying these flags on federal property as a symbol of pride and history? As someone already pointed out, removing the words on the pictures. Just using the symbols themselves.
    Because the Black Panthers are an EXPLICITLY racist group and the Battle Flag of the Confederacy is implicitly racist. With the BPs racism is THE core element in their organization, with the BFoC, in most cases, racism is assigned to it by those who view it with those who fly for racist purposes being in the VAST minority.
    Our nation has not always lived up to its ideals, yet those ideals have never ceased to guide us. They expose our flaws, and lead us to mend them. We are the beneficiaries of the work of the generations before us and it is each generation's responsibility to continue that work. - Laura Bush

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    Re: If you support the government flying the confederate flag......

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    The only flag that I support flying in the USA is the U.S. flag, the Stars and Stripes flag.
    Decorative Garden Flags

    Are you sure about that???
    Our nation has not always lived up to its ideals, yet those ideals have never ceased to guide us. They expose our flaws, and lead us to mend them. We are the beneficiaries of the work of the generations before us and it is each generation's responsibility to continue that work. - Laura Bush

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    Re: If you support the government flying the confederate flag......

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreton View Post
    The black panther party is a source of pride for many african americans in the united states. Yes most view it as racist, but not all. Just like the confederate flag. It is a part of african american history, and they do represent parts of that culture. Just like the confederate flag. Why would one be more appropriate than the other?
    What We Want Now!

    We want freedom.
    We want power to determine the destiny of our Black Community.
    We want full employment for our people.
    We want an end to the robbery by the white men of our Black Community. (later changed to "we want an end to the robbery by the capitalists of our black and oppressed communities.")
    We want decent housing, fit for shelter of human beings.
    We want education for our people that exposes the true nature of this decadent American society. We want education that teaches us our true history and our role in the present day society.
    We want all Black men to be exempt from military service.
    We want an immediate end to POLICE BRUTALITY and MURDER of Black people.
    We want freedom for all Black men held in federal, state, county and city prisons and jails.
    We want all Black people when brought to trial to be tried in court by a jury of their peer group or people from their Black Communities, as defined by the Constitution of the United States.
    We want land, bread, housing, education, clothing, justice and peace.
    Racism bolded....
    Our nation has not always lived up to its ideals, yet those ideals have never ceased to guide us. They expose our flaws, and lead us to mend them. We are the beneficiaries of the work of the generations before us and it is each generation's responsibility to continue that work. - Laura Bush

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