View Poll Results: Which lean is responsible?

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  • conservative/right wing

    9 16.98%
  • liberal/left wing

    1 1.89%
  • another political ideology/lean

    1 1.89%
  • Stupid Question, no political lean is at fault and/or responible for the shooting

    42 79.25%
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Thread: Which political lean is most responsible for the shooting in Charleston?

  1. #61
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    Re: Which political lean is most responsible for the shooting in Charleston?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    Hmm...

    In theory it's probably possible to be left-wing AND a ridiculously racist asshole murderer like roof

    But this guy seemingly identified with two (three?) extremely racist governments from the past, and to my knowledge they were mainly conservative in nature - albeit nothing any conservative these days would touch (at least not publicly, but then no one is racist publicly these days, if they're in politics)
    How are you defining "Conservative," first off? As with the word "Liberal," there are many different meanings associated with the term, and they vary quite a bit depending on where one happens to live.

    In Europe, for example, what they tend to call "Liberal" is basically what an American would describe as being "Conservative (i.e. limited government, free market, center rightists/moderates with significant focus on national pride and more traditional values)," where a European "Conservative" would basically be someone like Paleocon (i.e. a Monarchist, who believes in things like State Religions). In American political parlance, by way of contrast, "Liberal" is basically used as a proxy term for someone who supports "Social Democrat" or moderate "Democratic Socialist" causes and beliefs.

    Being largely authoritarian regimes, neither of the African nations mentioned here would really qualify as being "Conservative" in the American sense of the word, let alone the modern American sense of the word. Frankly, neither would the vast majority of Roof's personal ideology.
    Last edited by Gathomas88; 06-23-15 at 07:24 PM.

  2. #62
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    Re: Which political lean is most responsible for the shooting in Charleston?

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    You mean like how so many on the right felt the need to remind us constantly that, after the recent riots, Baltimore had been run by Democrats for decades? That kind of sadness?
    Yeah. That's not really any better.

    Although trying to blame conservatism for what some nut job did is more hollow and disingenuous

  3. #63
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    Re: Which political lean is most responsible for the shooting in Charleston?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    How are you defining "Conservative," first off? As with the word "Liberal," there are many different meanings associated with the term, and they vary quite a bit depending on where one happens to live.

    In Europe, for example, what they tend to call "Liberal" is basically what an American would describe as being "Conservative (i.e. limited government, free market, center rightists/moderates with significant focus on national pride and more traditional values)," where a European "Conservative" would basically be someone like Paleocon (i.e. a Monarchist, who believes in things like State Religions). In American political parlance, by way of contrast, "Liberal" is basically used as a proxy term for someone who supports "Social Democrat" or moderate "Democratic Socialist" causes and beliefs.

    Being largely authoritarian regimes, neither of the African nations mentioned here would really qualify as being "Conservative" in the American sense of the word, let alone the modern American sense of the word. Frankly, neither would the vast majority of Roof's personal ideology.
    I'm not really sure myself how I'm defining it.

    In a general sense, as "opposed to most changes".

    Certainly I don't think modern conservatives in the USA or Europe would find any common ground with the former nations mentioned (they're both gone now, right? well at least South Africa changed leadership)

    I was also thinking "right politically", and in that sense both those nations and conservatives are on the same "side" of the political....scale?

    But then we get into how you determine political position, and a linear measurement system is not that useful for such things.

    Like....authoritarian does not necessarily mean conservative, and the like.
    Education.

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  4. #64
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    Re: Which political lean is most responsible for the shooting in Charleston?

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    After scanning through some of the threads, clearly there are opinions on this so don't be shy, which "side" is to blame?

    Getting the poll together.
    None are responsible

  5. #65
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    Re: Which political lean is most responsible for the shooting in Charleston?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    1. Well, there is no Confederacy any more. In fact we're 150 years to the day that Stand Waite surrendered.

    2. I don't see too many folks pointing out African Americans as a whole as being a problem. There are, however, some significant problems in a number of African American communities and those problems do indeed get pointed out.

    3. Trayvon Martin bit off more than he could chew when he attacked Zimmerman. He made his choice and paid the price.
    1- so why are there those on the right who seem to not be able to let this issue go and insist on defending the Confederacy?
    2 - I previously listed a thread with a whole bunch of posts which would have given comfort to the SC killer.
    3- the point is not to reargue the Martin case but to point out that the SC killer would have taken comfort in many of the posts here
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  6. #66
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    Re: Which political lean is most responsible for the shooting in Charleston?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    Because if we did that then we wouldn't get to blame anybody!! Duh!!!

    Sure we would, but just not having the same same definition of an enemy influence. The bottom line is that many are exposed to the same potential (negative?) influences but few choose to "go postal" over them.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Which political lean is most responsible for the shooting in Charleston?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    1- so why are there those on the right who seem to not be able to let this issue go and insist on defending the Confederacy?
    2 - I previously listed a thread with a whole bunch of posts which would have given comfort to the SC killer.
    3- the point is not to reargue the Martin case but to point out that the SC killer would have taken comfort in many of the posts here
    I've run across various arguments supporting the confederacy along the lines of "it was about states rights more than keeping slavery (although one of the things they would probably have kept was slavery, at least for awhile)".

    I think SOME amount of merit exists there, but...
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    Re: Which political lean is most responsible for the shooting in Charleston?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    I've run across various arguments supporting the confederacy along the lines of "it was about states rights more than keeping slavery (although one of the things they would probably have kept was slavery, at least for awhile)".

    I think SOME amount of merit exists there, but...
    yes - the states right to practice slavery.
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  9. #69
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    Re: Which political lean is most responsible for the shooting in Charleston?

    Liberals fault. Before the evils of liberalism befell the great nation of the US, no man would ever dream of shooting up a building full of another man's property. Were it nor for the progressive agenda, this crime would never have happened.
    "To waste, to destroy, our natural resources, to skin and exhaust the land instead of using it so as to increase its usefulness, will result in undermining in the days of our children the very prosperity which we ought by rights to hand down to them."~ Theodore Roosevelt (Message to Congress, Dec. 3, 1907)

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    Re: Which political lean is most responsible for the shooting in Charleston?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Yep, the three stooges were quite extreme.
    My sons had those back in the 90's. The kid was out of style, so why are we even talking about it?
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country spoke, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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