• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Confederate Flag[W:1518,2230, 2241]

Should the Confederate Flag be abolished?

  • Yes

    Votes: 55 30.2%
  • No

    Votes: 127 69.8%

  • Total voters
    182
Re: Confederate Flag

Im pretty certain my comments you responded to in THIS post were talking about the Civil War.... in a thread talking about the Confederate Flag... and were in response to the topic of slavery....

The problem is the history of the Confederate flag or Rebel flag includes its recent history. It is its recent history that so condemns that particular flag. The flag in question was just one of many flown by the Confederacy and their armies during its brief history, but only one of them, a particular flag, was the symbol for Jim Crow and was raised by those in positions of power wanting to continue it. It's why Root, the murderer, didn't pick one of the other many available historical flags of the Confederacy, he like the modern KKK and many other modern racists like the leaders of Southern states fighting to continue Jim Crow all picked the same symbol. It's not an accident.

Bringing the conversation of that flag's history back to the 1860s just deliberately obscures all of that.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

And what did the institution of Slavery protect for Southerners?

The profitability of their agricultural economy?

Yep.


Also that bit about the negro not being equal to the white man.... Abraham Lincoln said that **** too.....

Great point - Lincoln's views of blacks were indistinguishable from the leaders of the Confederacy, which is why the Southern states seceded before Lincoln was even inaugurated, and said at the time that in large part the reason was Lincoln's and the Republican party's view of...slavery and blacks.

BTW, I know this is nitpicking, but there seems to be some small difference between "I think blacks are inferior but are nonetheless entitled to all the civil and human rights of whites" versus "Our new Government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition."

Admittedly, being free (and considered inferior) versus being enslaved and stripped of ALL of your human and civil rights are just small differences, but I suspect blacks at the time probably preferred the former versus the latter. Just a guess.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Its not just you but yes...there are a whole lot of people that are twisted over this fabricated outrage. It gives you a cause to help you feel all better about yourself. Its the equivalent of being worked up over the Redskins team name while you completely ignore the vast social ills infecting the American Indian population. Precisely the same thing.

Im not get twisted or outraged of the Confederate flag. I shared my view just as you have in this same thread. And you have made many more posts in this thread than I have, what does that say about you?

A quick search shows that you have been bitching up a storm at people bitching about the Confederate flag. http://www.debatepolitics.com/search.php?searchid=4573850
So it seems that you are the one getting all worked up.

Its just a the flag of the army that the US defeated. Get over it. If you want to fly any flag on your private property have at it. Anything on public property is going to be debated by people with differing views. You bitching about views that dont match yours is rather ignorant. How about instead of bitching that you offer a legit explanation as to why the Confederate flag in your opinion doesnt represent slavery directly?
 
Re: Confederate Flag

It would be like the Yankees baseball team changing their logo, and people who love being a New Yorker (because yes, the NY Yankees logo is often used as a "symbol" of New York by non baseball fans) being told their old Yankees hat or "flag" offends everyone because its the symbol the Yankees used during the days when blacks weren't allowed in baseball or some such nonsense.

Sheesh, your denial is deep. In this picture, the sign and the flag stand for the same thing. Wave either one and your position is clear:

FP001194.jpg


In your example, the Yankee banner never stood for segregation.

If the Yankees had raised a different banner to fly under the Yankees banner to protest integrating the major leagues, and white racists in the stands calling out "n****r" all held that banner, damn right THAT banner would represent racism, support for segregation, etc.
 
Last edited:
Re: Confederate Flag

I would have said Urban areas across the country are a bit more racist...especially with some of the conflict between black and brown...but I agree its a universal construct. Which is why, to me, this emphasis on the Confederate flag is such a ridiculous side-show.

The State institutions shouldn't be flying it. It is offensive to many people.

Pulling The Dukes of Hazard off the air was ridiculous. It's their channel, they can do that. Maybe advertisers pressured them into it. It is over the top, though.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Like with Moot....

Overt and Widespread racism is just that.....

By claiming "it wasn't equal though!!" you for one are changing the reason why I brought it up to begin with... to show the civil war had absolutely nothing to do with race...... and had everything to do with economy vs pride (later morality).

I am sure you are convinced that race has nothing to do with it. The fact that you willfully ignore that black folks' heritage is being owned like cattle, proves this. Sure, there were other aspects to the war, but you can't whitewash the racial component out.

And two... You are making excuses so you can then continue to justify your "hatin' on the south" attitude.

We get it, you hate the south......

Eat a Snickers. You know how you get...

Black Americans (African-Americans if you are PC) disagree with you.... as they are more economically successful in the south, than in any other region in the US.

There is still plenty of poverty in the south. But that is progress.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

I've said the same thing.... however.....

It is displayed at a confederate monument in FRONT of the State Capitol on a much smaller pole than that on the top of the ACTUAL State House.
It was front and center at the SC Statehouse grounds.

It comes down

tomorrow.

At 10AM
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Oh...Before I forget...(and really didn't have enough character space in my previous post)....

What about the flag of England?



What about the flag of France?



What about the Netherland's?



What about Portugal's Flag?



And of course...there was Spain...but I don't have enough character space.

Top 6 Countries That Grew Filthy Rich From Enslaving Black People - Atlanta Blackstar

Just sayin....

Thanks, mate...
Which was the only country that fought a bloody battle, killing hundreds of thousand with those who sought to preserve, protect and expand slavery

to finally abolish it?


Just sayin...
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Im not get twisted or outraged of the Confederate flag. I shared my view just as you have in this same thread. And you have made many more posts in this thread than I have, what does that say about you?

A quick search shows that you have been bitching up a storm at people bitching about the Confederate flag. http://www.debatepolitics.com/search.php?searchid=4573850
So it seems that you are the one getting all worked up.

Its just a the flag of the army that the US defeated. Get over it. If you want to fly any flag on your private property have at it. Anything on public property is going to be debated by people with differing views. You bitching about views that dont match yours is rather ignorant. How about instead of bitching that you offer a legit explanation as to why the Confederate flag in your opinion doesnt represent slavery directly?
I am a bit 'worked' up' about it. I grew up in the south. I lived within and among many people that flew that flag and racism was the farthest thing from our mind. My community was poor and mixed. I dont deny some that celebrate the Confederate flag are racist. I dont deny some that wrap themselves up in the American flag are racist. I think people that have seized on this 'cause' and think the Confederate flag is relevant when black America is experiencing every manner of social ill in the north, south, east, and west are complete ****ing morons. So yeah. I push back. Thats my nature.

Ive said it before. If the people of SC or any other state in the south wish to change their flag or choose to not fly flags on their state buildings, they should choose to do so. They just shouldnt allow themselves to be coerced by a bunch of race baiting ****heads and their supporting bands of morons.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

kW
Which was the only country that fought a bloody battle, killing hundreds of thousand with those who sought to preserve, protect and expand slavery

to finally abolish it?




Just sayin...

Well, I really wished I'd headed my post with PART II. My previous post would offers a more clear perspective regarding my personal position.

But what you replied to...point taken. Thanks
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Oh...Before I forget...(and really didn't have enough character space in my previous post)....

What about the flag of England?



What about the flag of France?



What about the Netherland's?



What about Portugal's Flag?



And of course...there was Spain...but I don't have enough character space.

Top 6 Countries That Grew Filthy Rich From Enslaving Black People - Atlanta Blackstar

Just sayin....

Thanks, mate...

If you want to make a case for history, any of those flags could be flown over a number of different states. Except maybe Portugal. Yet nobody says "Well it's our history, we have to fly it" about those flags.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Oh...Before I forget...(and really didn't have enough character space in my previous post)....

What about the flag of England?

What about the flag of France?

I agreed with most of your previous post but not this part. The problem is the Confederate flag has two histories, and when it was raised over the State of SC and other Southern states, adopted by the Dixiecrats, etc. it meant this:

Corbis-Bob_Cherry_KKK_Rockabilly.jpg

Not this:

1_confedflag.ngsversion.af0d952f343ef0ff1db084335fea43d9.adapt.1190.1.jpg
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Sheesh, your denial is deep. In this picture, the sign and the flag stand for the same thing. Wave either one and your position is clear:

FP001194.jpg


In your example, the Yankee banner never stood for segregation.

If the Yankees had raised a different banner to fly under the Yankees banner to protest integrating the major leagues, and white racists in the stands calling out "n****r" all held that banner, damn right THAT banner would represent racism, support for segregation, etc.

kkkwashDCjbatchelor92410.jpg


Your picture means nothing.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

I am sure you are convinced that race has nothing to do with it. The fact that you willfully ignore that black folks' heritage is being owned like cattle, proves this. Sure, there were other aspects to the war, but you can't whitewash the racial component out.
Im not whitewashing the racism. Im claiming racism existed on both sides, therefore I'm negating the fact that the civil war had anything to do with people who loved black people vs evil racists.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

I am a bit 'worked' up' about it. I grew up in the south. I lived within and among many people that flew that flag and racism was the farthest thing from our mind. My community was poor and mixed. I dont deny some that celebrate the Confederate flag are racist. I dont deny some that wrap themselves up in the American flag are racist. I think people that have seized on this 'cause' and think the Confederate flag is relevant when black America is experiencing every manner of social ill in the north, south, east, and west are complete ****ing morons. So yeah. I push back. Thats my nature.

Ive said it before. If the people of SC or any other state in the south wish to change their flag or choose to not fly flags on their state buildings, they should choose to do so. They just shouldnt allow themselves to be coerced by a bunch of race baiting ****heads and their supporting bands of morons.
You know how you just said that some people celebrate a flag for one reason and some for another? Well some people do not celebrate flags for one reason and some for another. Dont lump me in with those morons you are annoyed with.


Btw there isnt many Germans using a flag of a faction that destroyed their country as a symbol of their heritage. Think about how stupid it would be for Germans to fly Nazi flags celebrating their heritage. I suspect that Jews would be highly offended by such a thing. So it is no surprise that African Americans are upset about a flag from a faction that went to war for a States right to keep black people as slaves, for as long as they could. That sounds a lot worse than the North and their not knowing what to do with freemen of African decent. Oh thats right Lincoln figured out that they should be allowed to vote.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

It was front and center at the SC Statehouse grounds.

It comes down

tomorrow.

At 10AM

And I am also fine with that.....

Im also sad that people took an opportunity to have this discussion on race that we keep being told is needed to worry about a stupid flag which will do absolutely nothing to improve race relations.

It seems every time some event happens and we are all lectured on how there needs to be a discussion on race relations.... it turns into something petty and ridiculous.... or a one sided argument that goes nowhere.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Its not just you but yes...there are a whole lot of people that are twisted over this fabricated outrage. It gives you a cause to help you feel all better about yourself. Its the equivalent of being worked up over the Redskins team name while you completely ignore the vast social ills infecting the American Indian population. Precisely the same thing.

Wtf??

How can you not understand that having a sign that says "Black people are inferior," attached to a state capital has a significant impact on black americans, and even other minority populations who feel alienated and intimidated by a culture that GLORIFIES a symbol of SLAVERY?!
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Im not whitewashing the racism. Im claiming racism existed on both sides, therefore I'm negating the fact that the civil war had anything to do with people who loved black people vs evil racists.

Oh, good, so if my grandfather was racist, then i'm a racist too. And if i was a racist before, i'll be a racist for the rest of my life, i'm not allowed to change my mind.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

I got as far as "Professor of Sociology" and already doubted it.

Sociology is a "study" of how evil whitey is.... that is pretty much the entirety of it. Sure they throw some other **** in there to mask the fact that its purpose is to spread white guilt over some **** the vast majority of white people have absolutely no control over.

That's just an excuse some use to ignore information and ideas they don't like. I think the tactic is kind of cowardly. But that's just my opinion. :shrug:
 
Re: Confederate Flag

What?!?! Are you being sarcastic?!!

There was only ONE reason for the civil war: the south knew that the north was going to push for an end to slavery across the entire country.

Said another way, the south would rather commit TREASON for the sake of maintaining slavery. And the confederate flag is a symbol of that desire!!

Read The South Was Right then come back
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Your claim was nonsense. I read the entire article. Please articulate yourself or i'll just ignore you.

I'm sorry, I assume you know what you write.

You: The American flag does NOT represent slavery...

Me: It does today.

Then I gave you an article on why it does.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

It was front and center at the SC Statehouse grounds.

It comes down

tomorrow.To

At 10AM

Absolutely disgusting! ONE mentally ill nutjob had to destroy a flag that was not responsible for the nutjob in any way shape or form. Sad day for the South.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Treason? They fought and won independence during the Revolution... were named as Individual Soverign States, Joined a VOLUNTARY union.... and Left a VOLUNTARY union. Treason is a far stretch....

But, the war was fought to maintain the union (north's reason) and to defend its right to self governance (south's reason).

The reasons for secession do not = the reason for the WAR.

If by "self-governance" you mean "continue to unjustly enslave blacks" then you'd be accurate.

Are you trying to argue that secession and the war were not related? What college taught you history? Seriously? Where should i NEVER send my children?
 
Back
Top Bottom