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Confederate Flag[W:1518,2230, 2241]

Should the Confederate Flag be abolished?

  • Yes

    Votes: 55 30.2%
  • No

    Votes: 127 69.8%

  • Total voters
    182
Re: Confederate Flag

While the north and south were both racist, I wouldn't say it was equal.

Like with Moot....

Overt and Widespread racism is just that.....

By claiming "it wasn't equal though!!" you for one are changing the reason why I brought it up to begin with... to show the civil war had absolutely nothing to do with race...... and had everything to do with economy vs pride (later morality).

And two... You are making excuses so you can then continue to justify your "hatin' on the south" attitude.

We get it, you hate the south......

Black Americans (African-Americans if you are PC) disagree with you.... as they are more economically successful in the south, than in any other region in the US.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

IT's a democrat proposal, you can't blame the right for it. /facepalm

Actually we entered into the TPP negotiations in 2008. And if you look at those who objected to fast track, most of them were democrats, and I'm guessing all the "liberals."

But I think we agree it's a "corporate America" proposal and both parties have enough puppets of the Fortune 500 that neither party can afford to throw stones in issues like this, which are rare "bipartisan" affairs!
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Like with Moot....

Overt and Widespread racism is just that.....

By claiming "it wasn't equal though!!" you for one are changing the reason why I brought it up to begin with... to show the civil war had absolutely nothing to do with race...... and had everything to do with economy vs pride (later morality).

It had to do first and foremost with slavery..... At least that's what the states said at the time, that's what the VP of the Confederacy said, "Our new Government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition."
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Actually we entered into the TPP negotiations in 2008. And if you look at those who objected to fast track, most of them were democrats, and I'm guessing all the "liberals."

how are you blaming the right then for tpp in 2008?

they are no better, but you folks really need to start looking at your own as well.


But I think we agree it's a "corporate America" proposal and both parties have enough puppets of the Fortune 500 that neither party can afford to throw stones in issues like this, which are rare "bipartisan" affairs!

This is our reality.

both party are corportist whores. cronie capitalism, is not capitalism.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Slavery is slavery......

People always have to try to find a way to say, "OH YEAH... BUT IT WAS WORSE IN THE SOUFFF!!"

And by that very notion, you don't give a **** about the issue you claim to care about...... You only prove that your only care in the debate is "hatin' the south"

It's interesting that the southern apologists want to forget about the 100 years following the Civil war and the Jim Crow era.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

What?? Oh man. You poor thing!! It's so tough to be a bigot these days where those pesky minorities are always pointing out how baselessly inhumane it is!!

You forgot to add....

While doing the same thing and never being called out on it.......

Minorities are much better at being bigots because nobody will call it out for what it is...


But, as I am a white male.....

ce2.png
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Is this supposed to somehow automagically justify the use of the confederate flag?

And the north didn't abolish slavery because it wasn't economically viable. That's pure ignorance. They abolished slavery because (1) everyone knew free labor is exploitative (2) they were not economically dependent on it (it was 'easy' for them to change).

ROFL:

You say they didn't abolish slavery because it wasn't economically viable...

Then in #2 you pretty much state they did it because it wasn't economically viable....
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Why are you trying to compare slavery in New York to slavery in the South?
I in no way compared anything to anything.

Shouldnt you be researching some form of evidence demonstrating I am justifying slavery? Or is that yet another one of your failed arguments you are going to just let quietly slip away?
 
Re: Confederate Flag

LOL, yes, due to the actions of several groups, such as the legislatures and Governors who passed and enforced Jim Crow laws, the cops who ignored lynchings of blacks, winked at or participated in vigilante justice, the election administrators who kept blacks off the voting rolls, therefore off juries, unable to even run for office, etc......

It's soo unfair that my region gets tarred with being racists and white supremacists. We only oppressed blacks for 100 years after the Civil War..... :roll:
Uhh... I went back farther in history than you did and you want to be a smart ass???

Care to address what I said afterwards, or are you too busy just being a "I hate the south" poster????
 
Re: Confederate Flag

LOL, says the guy who blames the South's racist reputation on a few years after reconstruction and not the state sanctioned discrimination against blacks for the entire 100 years following the Civil War.... :roll:

LOL Says the guy who read into my post that I claimed it was an all inclusive list of wrongs done to black people in the south.

Here is a hint... my purpose wasn't to give an entire ****ing history lesson, it was to show where the mental state of racist southerners STARTED.


Clearly, you are just here to be "hating on the south".... so I'll leave you to your ignorant ass assumptions.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Uhh... I went back farther in history than you did and you want to be a smart ass???

Care to address what I said afterwards, or are you too busy just being a "I hate the south" poster????

No, what you did is ignored Southern history from the Civil War and immediate aftermath through my lifetime, the 50s and 60s. The reason we have a reputation for racism in the current era is because of what we stood for in the 20th century, and what the Rebel flag was raised to symbolize in 1961 - continuation of Jim Crow.

And I love the South, it's my home, and I've lived here my entire life. And because I love this area and the vast majority of its people I can't wait for this relic of a shameful history to be buried forever except in the same venues that display "whites only" signs - museums and the like. Defending the Rebel flag is, IMO, defending what it stood for when the SC LEGISLATURE raised it on their capital, which is for second class treatment of black citizens. No matter what an individual white person thinks when he flies the Rebel flag, the rest of the world can't distinguish him from a closet KKKer, and I can't either.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

It had to do first and foremost with slavery..... At least that's what the states said at the time, that's what the VP of the Confederacy said, "Our new Government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition."

And what did the institution of Slavery protect for Southerners?

The profitability of their agricultural economy?

Yep.


Also that bit about the negro not being equal to the white man.... Abraham Lincoln said that **** too.....

ce2.png
 
Re: Confederate Flag

LOL Says the guy who read into my post that I claimed it was an all inclusive list of wrongs done to black people in the south.

Here is a hint... my purpose wasn't to give an entire ****ing history lesson, it was to show where the mental state of racist southerners STARTED.

Clearly, you are just here to be "hating on the south".... so I'll leave you to your ignorant ass assumptions.

It sure as hell didn't start with reconstruction. This is from 1861, before the Civil War started:

Our new Government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition
 
Re: Confederate Flag

It's interesting that the southern apologists want to forget about the 100 years following the Civil war and the Jim Crow era.

Im pretty certain my comments you responded to in THIS post were talking about the Civil War.... in a thread talking about the Confederate Flag... and were in response to the topic of slavery....


Unless my history is off... which im sure in this case its not..... The topic you are angry at me for not mentioning happened decades later...

But.. you know... I could be wrong.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Slavery is slavery......

People always have to try to find a way to say, "OH YEAH... BUT IT WAS WORSE IN THE SOUFFF!!"

And by that very notion, you don't give a **** about the issue you claim to care about...... You only prove that your only care in the debate is "hatin' the south"

Hardly. Southerners like to point out there was a few slaves in the north to justify the 4 million slaves they had in the south. Slavery was a lot different in the south just by its sheer volume.....

Screen-Shot-2015-07-05-at-6.17.04-PM-300x207.png
 
Re: Confederate Flag

I may be alone in this assessment...

Removing the Confederate flag from statehouse is a good thing, and probably overdue. Especially considering that in SC it only went up in 1962 in response to Civil Rights.

However, it seems the hysteria has gone a bit overboard. Restricting it everywhere is way too much.

It's place in history should be honored, but to say that history is without racism is extremely dishonest. The whole Confederacy only started because a President was elected who had this notion that black people were people.

Which president was that? Washington? Adams? Jefferson? Perhaps you mean Madison or even Monroe? ALL the early presidents were maneuvering to end slavery. As Madison put it...
"The evil commenced when we were in our colonial state, but acts were passed by our colonial Legislature, prohibiting the importation of more slaves into the colony. These were rejected by the Crown. We declared our independence, and the prohibition of a further importation was among the first acts of State sovereignty. Virginia was the first State which instructed her delegates to declare the Colonies independent. She braved all dangers. From Quebec to Boston, and from Boston to Savannah, Virginia shed the blood of her sons. No imputation, then, can be cast upon her in this matter. She did all that was in her power to do, to prevent the extension of slavery, and to mitigate its evils."

Perhaps you mean the speaker of these powerful words..." The free people of these United States have spoken, and consigned these demagogues to their proper doom. Take care of your nullifiers you have amongst you. Let them meet the indignant frowns of every man who loves his country. The tariff, it is now known, was a mere pretext, and disunion and a Southern Confederacy the real object. The next pretext will be the negro, or the slavery question." A good southern man by the name of then General and soon president Andrew Jackson.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

And what did the institution of Slavery protect for Southerners?

The profitability of their agricultural economy?

Yep.


Also that bit about the negro not being equal to the white man.... Abraham Lincoln said that **** too.....

http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/782/935/ce2.png[IMG][/QUOTE]

Lincoln also said the negroes were human beings and that slavery was immoral. Did a southern leader ever say that?
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Hardly. Southerners like to point out there was a few slaves in the north to justify the 3 million slaves they had in the south. Slavery was a lot different in the south just by its sheer volume.....

Screen-Shot-2015-07-05-at-6.17.04-PM-300x207.png
By 1860 Slavery had been abolished in all of the northern states individually. In 1810 there were more slaves in Maryland than there were Georgia.

And I dont know where your census got their numbers, but there were 88,987 slaves still held in Delaware and Maryland in 1860.
https://eh.net/encyclopedia/slavery-in-the-united-states/

No number 'justifies' slavery. Where you and others continue to get that ridiculous notion...beyond me.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

No, what you did is ignored Southern history from the Civil War and immediate aftermath through my lifetime, the 50s and 60s. The reason we have a reputation for racism in the current era is because of what we stood for in the 20th century, and what the Rebel flag was raised to symbolize in 1961 - continuation of Jim Crow.

And I love the South, it's my home, and I've lived here my entire life. And because I love this area and the vast majority of its people I can't wait for this relic of a shameful history to be buried forever except in the same venues that display "whites only" signs - museums and the like. Defending the Rebel flag is, IMO, defending what it stood for when the SC LEGISLATURE raised it on their capital, which is for second class treatment of black citizens. No matter what an individual white person thinks when he flies the Rebel flag, the rest of the world can't distinguish him from a closet KKKer, and I can't either.

Well, I see that you are stuck on Jim Crow era thoughts, but we are in a thread about the Confederate Flag, and I am often responding to posts specifically discussing the Time period where the flag came into being, the Civil War....

Because YOU wish to discuss Jim Crow, that is no reason to accuse others of somehow being an "apologist" for the Jim Crow era because they didn't mention it.

The "rest of the world" huh????

Poll: After Charleston, a nation divided on the Confederate flag
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Lincoln also said the negroes were human beings and that slavery was immoral. Did a southern leader ever say that?

I don't know... do you???
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Hardly. Southerners like to point out there was a few slaves in the north to justify the 4 million slaves they had in the south. Slavery was a lot different in the south just by its sheer volume.....

Screen-Shot-2015-07-05-at-6.17.04-PM-300x207.png

The fact that you can't see that southerners aren't pointing out slaves in the North to JUSTIFY slavery tells me all I need to know about how you view this subject.

There is no JUSTIFICATION for Slavery. Southerners are simply pointing out the ignorance in this silly northern version of history that the civil war was about the evil evil racist slave holding south vs the good, noble, everyone is equal north.

The suggestion that it "wasn't as bad" or "they weren't as racist" (with no evidence of such) is actually a pathetic attempt at justifying the "goodness" and "awesomeness" of the North in this fictional history story that people like to tell.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Not equal people mind you........ just people....

And sometimes... people who should be shipped back to Africa.

Just saying... people like to ignore the **** Lincoln said (whites should be superior, blacks should be transported back to Africa) and did (wrecked the constitution, shut down newspapers, acted without congress in matters too numerous to count, let his generals burn cities and soldiers rape/pillage) all because he was anti-slavery and "freed the slaves" (although lets be honest, he did no such thing).

So you really had nothing to say, just felt like you had to lash out?
 
Re: Confederate Flag

I in no way compared anything to anything.

Shouldnt you be researching some form of evidence demonstrating I am justifying slavery? Or is that yet another one of your failed arguments you are going to just let quietly slip away?
Why did you say, "New York was the main hub for slavery"? Were you trying to suggest that the north had more slaves than the south or something?
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Which president was that? Washington? Adams? Jefferson? Perhaps you mean Madison or even Monroe? ALL the early presidents were maneuvering to end slavery. As Madison put it...
"The evil commenced when we were in our colonial state, but acts were passed by our colonial Legislature, prohibiting the importation of more slaves into the colony. These were rejected by the Crown. We declared our independence, and the prohibition of a further importation was among the first acts of State sovereignty. Virginia was the first State which instructed her delegates to declare the Colonies independent. She braved all dangers. From Quebec to Boston, and from Boston to Savannah, Virginia shed the blood of her sons. No imputation, then, can be cast upon her in this matter. She did all that was in her power to do, to prevent the extension of slavery, and to mitigate its evils."

Perhaps you mean the speaker of these powerful words..." The free people of these United States have spoken, and consigned these demagogues to their proper doom. Take care of your nullifiers you have amongst you. Let them meet the indignant frowns of every man who loves his country. The tariff, it is now known, was a mere pretext, and disunion and a Southern Confederacy the real object. The next pretext will be the negro, or the slavery question." A good southern man by the name of then General and soon president Andrew Jackson.

Yes, you're right. Secession had nothing to do with Lincoln or slavery :roll:
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Why did you say, "New York was the main hub for slavery"? Were you trying to suggest that the north had more slaves than the south or something?

Why are you expecting a rational response?
 
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