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Confederate Flag[W:1518,2230, 2241]

Should the Confederate Flag be abolished?

  • Yes

    Votes: 55 30.2%
  • No

    Votes: 127 69.8%

  • Total voters
    182
Re: Confederate Flag

So you discount memories from veterans of any conflict just because you may not see them in a clearly biased book? How sad.

No I said that I dont believe you personally, because you are telling embellished rumors. In order to prove that what you are saying has any worth you would need direct evidence. As it stands you have zero actual proof that you grandpa even said any of the things that you claim. Or that he didnt lie to you.


WHat is sad though is you trying to make it look I am just blindly following some mysterious source, while you assert your claims solely on a mysterious source ( your Grandpa) and a book that was written by white supremacists.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

You werent asking me.... but my answer is...

When you dont add meaning to it... By its visual design.... I very much like its appearance.

Same for the 1st Confederate Flag the original "Stars and Bars"... it looks pretty good too.

However the "Stainless Banner" and the "Stainless Banner with Red Stripe" ..... those flags looked like garbage.

I can appreciate that from a purely aesthetic perspective but I think respecting social context is more important.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

I can appreciate that from a purely aesthetic perspective but I think respecting social context is more important.

Social context is whatever the individual decides to apply to it.

I hate society trying to tell us how we MUST view certain symbols.

Thats how a once respected symbol of eastern religions, the swastica, is now an evil symbol of jew hatred.

Its original symbology is a symbol of "well being"
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Social context is whatever the individual decides to apply to it.

I hate society trying to tell us how we MUST view certain symbols.

Thats how a once respected symbol of eastern religions, the swastica, is now an evil symbol of jew hatred.

Its original symbology is a symbol of "well being"

I understand your point. I really do. There is validity to it. I guess I value considering the social repercussions of empathy on our society as a whole, more worthy. In this case, for me, there is more value to our community in respecting the justified outrage and outcry of black americans than there is denying it to cater to a select few who may in all sincerity hold a wholly different connection to this symbol. I think of it as grace and I respect it
 
Re: Confederate Flag

No I said that I dont believe you personally, because you are telling embellished rumors. In order to prove that what you are saying has any worth you would need direct evidence. As it stands you have zero actual proof that you grandpa even said any of the things that you claim. Or that he didnt lie to you.


WHat is sad though is you trying to make it look I am just blindly following some mysterious source, while you assert your claims solely on a mysterious source ( your Grandpa) and a book that was written by white supremacists.

Wonder if she's been to college yet, and had to cite sources.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

I understand your point. I really do. There is validity to it. I guess I value considering the social repercussions of empathy on our society as a whole, more worthy. In this case, for me, there is more value to our community in respecting the justified outrage and outcry of black americans than there is denying it to cater to a select few who may in all sincerity hold a wholly different connection to this symbol. I think of it as grace and I respect it

I understand the position you are coming from. That is why I do not support it being endorsed by any state on state grounds, other than those state grounds dedicated to burial grounds for civil war dead, or battlefield memorials, etc.

General 'monuments' to a particular General or what not do not need a flag flying over them per se.

However, I also despise groups like the KKK holding rallies to defend the flag, as it does nothing for those who respect the flag due to their heritage, only hurts them.

In the end... I think our nation wasted an opportunity to have a real discussion on the coattails of the actions of both black and white citizens in Charleston, who handled this tragic incident beautifully as a community should (overall), by divulging into a petty debate over a flag... as if that is going to change anything, or improve race relations in any way.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

I understand the position you are coming from. That is why I do not support it being endorsed by any state on state grounds, other than those state grounds dedicated to burial grounds for civil war dead, or battlefield memorials, etc.

General 'monuments' to a particular General or what not do not need a flag flying over them per se.

However, I also despise groups like the KKK holding rallies to defend the flag, as it does nothing for those who respect the flag due to their heritage, only hurts them.

In the end... I think our nation wasted an opportunity to have a real discussion on the coattails of the actions of both black and white citizens in Charleston, who handled this tragic incident beautifully as a community should (overall), by divulging into a petty debate over a flag... as if that is going to change anything, or improve race relations in any way.

Yes, you're right. But social evolution takes place at a glacial pace and it's small gestures, like this one, that contribute towards our forward momentum. So while it may appear petty to some in and of itself because it clearly has much deeper to many and a show of respect in the form of empathy moves us all forward
 
Re: Confederate Flag

1. Grandpapa's 1990's re-telling to her little girl wide-eyes of his time visiting a Confederate Old Age home in the 1930's and talking to a 100 year old rebel who spent most of his time in a Union prison during the Civil War

2. Neo-confederate garbage from the White Supremacists Kennedy twins not a single legit historian recognizes as factual.

3. Daughters of the Confederacy Lost Cause propaganda.

^ That's it, folks. The sum and full total of her sources.

She still doesn't even accept the word "slavery" or "slaves" is in the Confederate Constitution.

How's that for denial?


Do you think she has a motive?
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Do you think she has a motive?

I know you were speaking to Paperview and not me, but I see alot of naivety in her posts. Not necessarily a bad thing, but it's like chum in the water. :shrug:
 
Re: Confederate Flag

I know you were speaking to Paperview and not me, but I see alot of naivety in her posts. Not necessarily a bad thing, but it's like chum in the water. :shrug:

I don't look at that it that way. While it is a fun exercise in futility, it's also a good opportunity to brush up on Civil War era history with what appears to be a true Lost Causer. But I don't expect to change her mind because it's obviously way too late for that but it is interesting to see how she rationalizes history to fit her worldview. Judging by the amount of attention she's getting, other posters must think so, too.

Anyway, she's a blast from the past, so lets party like it's 1899. lol
 
Re: Confederate Flag

I don't look at that it that way. While it is a fun exercise in futility, it's also a good opportunity to brush up on Civil War era history with what appears to be a true Lost Causer. But I don't expect to change her mind because it's obviously way too late for that but it is interesting to see how she rationalizes history to fit her worldview. Judging by the amount of attention she's getting, other posters must think so, too.

Anyway, she's a blast from the past, so lets party like it's 1899. lol

July 3rd is the anniversary of the final day of the battle of Gettysburg, which includes the infamous Pickett's charge.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Here's a great quote from one of Lincoln's contemporaries:

"The framers of our Constitution never exhausted so much labor, wisdom, and forbearance in its formation, and surrounded it with so many guards and securities, if it were intended to be broken by every member of the Confederacy at will. It is intended for perpetual union, so expressed in the preamble, and for the establishment of a government (not a compact) which can only be dissolved by revolution, or by the consent of all the people in convention assembled."

You're just having a hell'uva time: what's your thesis?
 
Re: Confederate Flag

July 3rd is the anniversary of the final day of the battle of Gettysburg, which includes the infamous Pickett's charge.

Great theme for a necktie party.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Great theme for a necktie party.

Why would any confederate apologist try to celebrate somthing on the anniversary of the confederacies great defeat, more specifically the massacre of an entire unit of their troops?
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Why would any confederate apologist try to celebrate somthing on the anniversary of the confederacies great defeat, more specifically the massacre of an entire unit of their troops?

Because Pickett was an "honorable southern gentleman?"

...that hung an 11 year old bugle boy.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Personally, I find it strange that the people who lost the war and were on the wrong side morally want to constantly remind people of it. It would be like Germans flying Nazi flags all the time.

But I'm not black, southern, or a civil war veteran, so I don't really have any skin in the game on this one, and I don't really care that much.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Do you think she has a motive?
I think she can't abide by the fact her beloved granpapa might have been telling her tall tales and embellishing his old man stories. She's young, so maybe there's hope. (although I've witnessed it for five years now...)

At this point, when someone (as you've noticed) can't even admit a formal document like the Confederate Constitution contains the words "slave" or "slavery" - (as it does, numerous times, and calls for the permanent perpetuation of human bondage in the CSA)

or (I swear she refuses to read them) look at the numerous States formal Declarations of Reasons for Secession, there is a denial so thick it's unlikely to get through.

I don't think the motive is much more than naiveitivity and a deep, unquestioning love of her gpapa.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

I think she can't abide by the fact her beloved granpapa might have been telling her tall tales and embellishing his old man stories. She's young, so maybe there's hope. (although I've witnessed it for five years now...)

At this point, when someone (as you've noticed) can't even admit a formal document like the Confederate Constitution contains the words "slave" or "slavery" - (as it does, numerous times, and calls for the permanent perpetuation of human bondage in the CSA)

or (I swear she refuses to read them) look at the numerous States formal Declarations of Reasons for Secession, there is a denial so thick it's unlikely to get through.

I don't think the motive is much more than naiveitivity and a deep, unquestioning love of her gpapa.


She is by no means unusual in the South and generally in this country. She's basically in line with all the standard white-supremacist historical revisionism and denial the permeates that part of our society.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

?

My thesis of that quote?

Not from the quote: you're trying out a thesis and using that quote as a source to make a point. What's your point (thesis)?
 
Re: Confederate Flag

No more reason for the Confederate flag to be abolished than for the American flag; however, I don't think it should be flown on state capitols. We took half of Mexico away from the Mexicans under the American flag so they could be just as offended by it. If we start abolishing everything that is offensive we will have to abolish the name of our Capital - Washington was a slave owner etc etc etc.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

No I said that I dont believe you personally, because you are telling embellished rumors. In order to prove that what you are saying has any worth you would need direct evidence. As it stands you have zero actual proof that you grandpa even said any of the things that you claim. Or that he didnt lie to you.


WHat is sad though is you trying to make it look I am just blindly following some mysterious source, while you assert your claims solely on a mysterious source ( your Grandpa) and a book that was written by white supremacists.

You would be surprised what is also in the Daughters of the Confederacy magazines. They have actual writings and excerpts of journals from soldiers themselves. Unfortunately I gave all of my magazines away to a horse trainer friend of mine (I kept the one with my grandma's name in the "In Memoriam" section after she passed in 1998)
 
Re: Confederate Flag

She is by no means unusual in the South and generally in this country. She's basically in line with all the standard white-supremacist historical revisionism and denial the permeates that part of our society.

Revisionist history my behind! That is what the ones who are trying to do away with the Confederate flag now want.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

I don't look at that it that way. While it is a fun exercise in futility, it's also a good opportunity to brush up on Civil War era history with what appears to be a true Lost Causer. But I don't expect to change her mind because it's obviously way too late for that but it is interesting to see how she rationalizes history to fit her worldview. Judging by the amount of attention she's getting, other posters must think so, too.

Anyway, she's a blast from the past, so lets party like it's 1899. lol

LMAO you're pretty funny but the South is fighting back. I saw plenty of Confederate flags flying high in my neck of the woods. People are angry and showing it
 
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