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Confederate Flag[W:1518,2230, 2241]

Should the Confederate Flag be abolished?

  • Yes

    Votes: 55 30.2%

  • No

    Votes: 127 69.8%
  • Total voters
    182
Re: Confederate Flag

Ummmm, isn't that considered treason? I'm pretty sure the definition of treason is explained in Article 111,section 3 of the U.S. Constitution. Just sayin'
 
Re: Confederate Flag

judith1 said:
Ummmm, isn't that considered treason? I'm pretty sure the definition of treason is explained in Article 111,section 3 of the U.S. Constitution. Just sayin'
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Not if they were a separate nation.

As mentioned before, the right to secede was supported by every state in the nation, up until someone actually did it.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Caine said:
Not if they were a separate nation.

As mentioned before, the right to secede was supported by every state in the nation, up until someone actually did it.
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As God is my witness! I will never go hungry again!
 
Re: Confederate Flag

NO, Because......


“When the Nazis came to take the Communists, I was silent. After all, I was no Communist. When they took the Jews, I was silent. I am no Jew. When they arrested the Social Democrats, I was silent. I was no Social Democrat. When they came to take me, there was no one left to protest.”

MARTIN NIEMÖLLER, a German U-boat captain and later pacifist pastor,

I neither own, display or intend to display a "Confederate Flag" but I voted "No" because attempting to ban inanimate objects only causes more problems that it solves and further polarizes society.

We don't need yet, another intrusive & restrictive law giving an already meddlesome & confiscatory big Government another way to extract money & harass even a small & mostly harmless group of people like Civil War re-enactors, for example.

When you support the negation of freedoms for some "other" people, you contribute to a trend by which you will lose freedoms of your own.

As I mentioned, there are many hobbyists who enjoy participating in historic re-enactment. As a blacksmith who designs & makes wrought iron gates, fireplace tools, table bases, fountains etc etc, I am occasionally asked to make many very curious reproduction Civil War artifacts for Historic re-enactors of both sides. I have yet to meet a racist & hate filled person who plays either side but have learned quite a bit in doing the research required.

While have no interest in participating in that hobby either, I'm impressed with their knowledge of History, attention to detail & eagerness to aid in film productions, educate the general public, school children etc about life in that era.

So, my vote has little to do with the Flag itself but more to do with an aversion to the surrendering of ANY freedom no matter how silly or insignificant it may seem.

Someday, your own silly seeming freedom may disappear.

Thanks
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Caine said:
They fired on Fort Sumnter because federal troops refused to leave CSA lands. Its not like they just showed up and started blasting fools.... They gave them the opportunity to peacefully return to USA lands.
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It was not their property. South Carolina ceded all rights to Fort Sumter in 1836.
All Rights.

It was Federal property. Property belonging to the whole of the US.

Not to mention all the other Forts, Custom Houses and Arsenals and other Federal property and buildings they seized and declared as their own all over the south. Property belonging to the whole of the US.

You don't just get to steal Federal property and call it your own.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Caine said:
Excellent support for your position... I love it.
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I've been around the rodeo one too many times to keep repeating myself for people who are immune to learning or reading actual history. Lost Cause mythology repetition gets so boring after a while.


But you can start with this, if you care to...

http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls...ort-right-texas-secede-49.html#post1064592084


Or even more basic: "levying war against them"

Article III, Section 3, U.S. Constitution.

Also to: "No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation"

Article I, Section 10

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I note as well you didn't bother to refute my post #929 -- just skipped right over it. Wonder why...hmmm.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Here's a great quote from one of Lincoln's contemporaries:

"The framers of our Constitution never exhausted so much labor, wisdom, and forbearance in its formation, and surrounded it with so many guards and securities, if it were intended to be broken by every member of the Confederacy at will. It is intended for perpetual union, so expressed in the preamble, and for the establishment of a government (not a compact) which can only be dissolved by revolution, or by the consent of all the people in convention assembled."
 
Re: Confederate Flag

HorseLoverGirl said:
Folk lore? Hmmmm are you saying those veterans lied to my granddaddy and his Benedictine company? Somehow I doubt it.
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Much of what has been spread as gospel by some non-Southern people here has been folk lore. A few examples:

Nathan Bedford Forrest was a founder of the KKK.

Nathan Bedford Forrest was the first Grand Wizard of the KKK.

Both are undocumented and anecdotal. That hasn't stopped ignorant people from repeating it again and again. The north won the war and they wrote much of the history which in many cases was undocumented and sometimes completely false. The north was scared ****less of Bedford Forrest and thus northern historians created myths about Forrest.

People who have read books and articles about the War Between the States, people who know and understand and/or were brought up with Southern traditions and Southern culture, know full well that there are astounding number of people on DP who've done nothing more than a Google search - at best - before lecturing the rest of us with feigned authority about facts they don't have.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Paperview said:
I've been around the rodeo one too many times to keep repeating myself for people who are immune to learning or reading actual history. Lost Cause mythology repetition gets so boring after a while.


But you can start with this, if you care to...

http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls...ort-right-texas-secede-49.html#post1064592084


Or even more basic: "levying war against them"

Article III, Section 3, U.S. Constitution.

Also to: "No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation"

Article I, Section 10

-----

I note as well you didn't bother to refute my post #929 -- just skipped right over it. Wonder why...hmmm.
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LOL....

When the secede.... they cease to be a state of the United States..... and thus the constitution does not apply to them.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Risky Thicket said:
...
People who have read books and articles about the War Between the States, people who know and understand and/or were brought up with Southern traditions and Southern culture, know full well that there are astounding number of people on DP who've done nothing more than a Google search - at best - before lecturing the rest of us with feigned authority about facts they don't have.
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Good thing I know my history, eh? To repeat a post from earlier in the thread:

It's what I do for a living.

For decades.

BTW: The reason for my user name is because I work with original documents, letters from the Revolutionary War Era to Civil War - some that are now in museums and Institutions. Some have been written about in books.

Thousands of original Civil war soldiers letters have passed through my hands, Confederate, and Union, (which of course involves a great deal of research) -- as well as original items signed by near every CW General and near every Founder and President...

Letters and docs actually signed by Jefferson Davis and Abraham Lincoln. Yes. I've touched the exact same paper they touched.

It's pretty humbling, and it really does give me a depth in history few know of, and quite a unique perspective.

In addition, I have literally thousands of original newspapers, pamphlets, books in my archives from the 1840's 50's and 60's. I use original sources.

Going on 30 years now, I have been eating, drinking and breathing history in my each and every day. I think I'm qualified, and from my perspective, it is the many of these Southern neo-confederates types and like-minded people here who have attached to the rewrite of history that was started in the 1890's Lost Cause and is still seeped into the Southern Zeitgeist.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Paperview said:
Good thing I know my history, eh? To repeat a post from earlier in the thread:

It's what I do for a living.

For decades.

BTW: The reason for my user name is because I work with original documents, letters from the Revolutionary War Era to Civil War - some that are now in museums and Institutions. Some have been written about in books.

Thousands of original Civil war soldiers letters have passed through my hands, Confederate, and Union, (which of course involves a great deal of research) -- as well as original items signed by near every CW General and near every Founder and President...

Letters and docs actually signed by Jefferson Davis and Abraham Lincoln. Yes. I've touched the exact same paper they touched.

It's pretty humbling, and it really does give me a depth in history few know of, and quite a unique perspective.

In addition, I have literally thousands of original newspapers, pamphlets, books in my archives from the 1840's 50's and 60's. I use original sources.

Going on 30 years now, I have been eating, drinking and breathing history in my each and every day. I think I'm qualified, and from my perspective, it is the many of these Southern neo-confederates types and like-minded people here who have attached to the rewrite of history that was started in the 1890's Lost Cause and is still seeped into the Southern Zeitgeist.
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Good, then cite us the documentation regarding Nathan Bedford Forrest and the KKK.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

FreedomFromAll said:
No I am saying that your grandpa has no relevance in this thread. Hell I dont even believe your story about your grandpa.
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Sadly that does not surprise me. Some people don't want to believe truths handed down through the generations that don't jive with what they have been indoctrinated to believe.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

risky thicket said:
much of what has been spread as gospel by some non-southern people here has been folk lore. A few examples:

Nathan bedford forrest was a founder of the kkk.

Nathan bedford forrest was the first grand wizard of the kkk.

Both are undocumented and anecdotal. That hasn't stopped ignorant people from repeating it again and again. The north won the war and they wrote much of the history which in many cases was undocumented and sometimes completely false. The north was scared ****less of bedford forrest and thus northern historians created myths about forrest.

People who have read books and articles about the war between the states, people who know and understand and/or were brought up with southern traditions and southern culture, know full well that there are astounding number of people on dp who've done nothing more than a google search - at best - before lecturing the rest of us with feigned authority about facts they don't have.
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thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Re: Confederate Flag

digitusmedius said:
No assumption has been made. You had a chance to answer an easy question with a simple "yes" or "no," and you opted for avoiding answering altogether. Your non-answer leaves no room for doubt about your supremacist ideas. It's actually a bit of a testimony that you have enough honesty not to lie outright about it and that you're somewhat ashamed of what your answer is. So there's hope for you....slim to be sure but hope, nonetheless. BTW, you didn't learn how to say "there only one race, the human race" from granddaddy. That's a cop-out attempt to use politically correctness to sound tolerant.
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How funny you sound
 
Re: Confederate Flag

1. Grandpapa's 1990's re-telling to her little girl wide-eyes of his time visiting a Confederate Old Age home in the 1930's and talking to a 100 year old rebel who spent most of his time in a Union prison during the Civil War

2. Neo-confederate garbage from the White Supremacists Kennedy twins not a single legit historian recognizes as factual.

3. Daughters of the Confederacy Lost Cause propaganda.

^ That's it, folks. The sum and full total of her sources.

She still doesn't even accept the word "slavery" or "slaves" is in the Confederate Constitution.

How's that for denial?
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Paperview said:
1. Grandpapa's 1990's re-telling of his time visiting a Confederate Old Age home in the 1930's and talking to a 100 year old rebel who spent most of his time in a Union prison during the Civil War

2. Neo-confederate garbage from the White Supremacists Kennedy twins not a single legit historian recognizes as factual.

3. Daughters of the Confederacy Lost Cause propaganda.

^ That's it, folks. The sum and full total of her sources.

She still doesn't even accept the word "slavery" or "slaves" is in the Confederate Constitution.

How's that for denial?
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In other words I read things that tell the truth and supposedly I am in denial??? How funny!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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