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Confederate Flag[W:1518,2230, 2241]

Should the Confederate Flag be abolished?

  • Yes

    Votes: 55 30.2%
  • No

    Votes: 127 69.8%

  • Total voters
    182
Re: Confederate Flag

I'm a patriot, and I stand when the flag passes by with my hand on my heart. You should do likewise.
Strange you suggest that I don't. What did I post to suggest otherwise?
 
Re: Confederate Flag

too many babies crying about a flag.:roll:

it's a cool flag... keep it.
If you don't mind the fact that the BFoC was, and still is to me, the flag of treason and of slavery.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

It is a symbol of racism and segregation. I would not oppose an individual having one or flying it. I do not support our federal or state governments flying that flag.

To you.

You some people it is a symbol of heritage. If you hadn't actually lived in the south, you wouldn't understand that southerners are actually quite proud of being from the impovershed and marginalized region known as "the south".

Impoverished due to the "reconstruction" era... and marginalized by liberal media and northern "educational" institutions.
Its a cultural thing... no different than those who have mexican ancestry display a mexican flag.... those with irish display an irish flag..... those who are potheads display a jamaican flag, etc.


If there were not morons out there who believe it to mean one is a racist, I would proudly display it myself.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

The American flag represents freedom. It may have been a symbol of America during an unfortunate period in our history but that is not what it represents today. The confederate flag has always representes slavery. That has never changed.

Actually this "Rebel Flag" represents rebelling against a strong central government, which is what we ended up with under Lincoln.

If it were to make a political statement at all that is....

Most people prefer it for the reasons I mentioned previously.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

It took us a long time to do that... what if all the South needed was more time as well?

Considering their economy was agriculture based, and thus much more dependent upon slave labor than the more industrial North......

Even southerners knew it was wrong to hold slaves at this point, but they had little choice else.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

The US flag represents the country, while the Confederate flag denotes a specific faction that was willing to die for the right to own their fellow human beings. It should be removed from public property and heavily stigmatized.

If you think that hundreds of thousands of southerners joined the cause of the south to fight for the purpose of slavery........ when only a small fraction owned slaves........ you are sorely mistaken.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

No, it's just a constant reminder of racism, murder, slavery, segregation, beatings, whipping, lynchings, ripping families apart, from the POV of those with generations of being the subjugated.

Are you capable of seeing things from others perspectives? Do you think the pain of your loss of having the flag removed yet still sold on gazillions of schwag will be greater than a daily reminder of all of the above?

What about the thousands and thousands of slaves that were well treated and better off under slavery than out on their ass with nothing?

What about all the slaves in the north that WEREN'T freed by the Emancipation Proclamation.

Thats right.... Slavery was legal in the north up until after the end of the civil war.... as much as those in the north try to re-write history....
 
Re: Confederate Flag

To you.

You some people it is a symbol of heritage. If you hadn't actually lived in the south, you wouldn't understand that southerners are actually quite proud of being from the impovershed and marginalized region known as "the south".

Impoverished due to the "reconstruction" era... and marginalized by liberal media and northern "educational" institutions.
Its a cultural thing... no different than those who have mexican ancestry display a mexican flag.... those with irish display an irish flag..... those who are potheads display a jamaican flag, etc.


If there were not morons out there who believe it to mean one is a racist, I would proudly display it myself.

It is a bull**** excuse for people to justify displaying a symbol knowing exactly what it is and what they are doing and the message they are trying to send with it. If a group of people started displaying swastikas and yelling heil hitler all the time and claimed it was not because of the nazi germany era but because they really like 90 degree angles and words that start with H would you buy that crap too? The confederate flag has been used quite a few times in history. It was flown as a symbol of a divided country by those desperately trying to cling to slavery. It largely disappeared for quite a while, then made a large comeback as a symbol of the dixiecrats who were largely running on a segregation platform. It has been used consistently by the KKK and other racist groups. The reason it was put up (and has not been taken down since) is largely believed to have been a symbol of SC's opposition to desegregation in schools.

There are a number of symbols that could be used in the south as a symbol of pride, symbols that are not so closely tied to racism time and time again. This flag in politics and movements has always represented one thing, and that is racism. Individuals can do what they'd like. Putting a symbol that has only been used in politics for the repression of people on government grounds as a symbol of pride is at the very least extremely poor judgement.

How would you feel if Obama were to demand that all Federal buildings fly

Panther-power1.jpg
or

codex_181.jpg


Not as a racial group but a symbol of pride for black americans? My guess is many in white america would be uncomfortable and would protest those being flown by our government as a symbol of our country regardless of the "reason" they are being flown, but because of what they represent to most people.
 

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Re: Confederate Flag

Our new Government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition.

False
....the declaration of independence laid the foundation of america, but that declaration would not have be passed by the continental congress had it tried to end slavery by just 3 states ....... the other states wanted to end slavery, ....... the declaration was needed at all cost to unite the colonies against Britain.......and there is no founding principle at blacks are inferior.

under the articles of confederation, the central government ENDED any SLAVERY when it had authority TO DO SO....slavery was illegal by the Northwest Ordinance......but could not be ended by the central government among the states, because states were sovereign and independent states with their own militias and own laws.

the states sent delegates from every state but RI to the constitutional convention , those delegates were sent their to fix the articles of confederation not create a new constitution, but a new constitution was created and that constitution is about federalism the separation of powers between the states and the new federal government .......and that is all it about......with the states still remaining sovereign and independent states.

the bill of rights is about restrictions placed on the federal government, in addition to the federal government being limited government.

there are no foundations laid by the AOC central government or the federal government that blacks are subhuman.......

where the government had the power to end slavery they did it, and to point out that slavery was in a proposal made at the convention which would have made it a legal practice, the founders stuck it out saying..........."there is nothing legal about slavery"

you need your facts straight.
 
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Re: Confederate Flag

Actually this "Rebel Flag" represents rebelling against a strong central government, which is what we ended up with under Lincoln.

If it were to make a political statement at all that is....

Most people prefer it for the reasons I mentioned previously.

No, most people dont. Most people use it for a symbol of hate. Myabe some others view as something else, but most do not.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

It is a bull**** excuse for people to justify displaying a symbol knowing exactly what it is and what they are doing and the message they are trying to send with it. If a group of people started displaying swastikas and yelling heil hitler all the time and claimed it was not because of the nazi germany era but because they really like 90 degree angles and words that start with H would you buy that crap too? The confederate flag has been used quite a few times in history. It was flown as a symbol of a divided country by those desperately trying to cling to slavery. It largely disappeared for quite a while, then made a large comeback as a symbol of the dixiecrats who were largely running on a segregation platform. It has been used consistently by the KKK and other racist groups. The reason it was put up (and has not been taken down since) is largely believed to have been a symbol of SC's opposition to desegregation in schools.

There are a number of symbols that could be used in the south as a symbol of pride, symbols that are not so closely tied to racism time and time again. This flag in politics and movements has always represented one thing, and that is racism. Individuals can do what they'd like. Putting a symbol that has only been used in politics for the repression of people on government grounds as a symbol of pride is at the very least extremely poor judgement.

How would you feel if Obama were to demand that all Federal buildings fly

View attachment 67186209
or

View attachment 67186211


Not as a racial group but a symbol of pride for black americans? My guess is many in white america would be uncomfortable and would protest those being flown by our government as a symbol of our country regardless of the "reason" they are being flown, but because of what they represent to most people.

Funny.
You compare the display of a flag with no words on it to someone yelling "Heil Hitler" or images that specifically state "Black Power".

Because myopic narrow minded people believe the confederate flag equates into racism doesn't mean it does.

Please point out the words of racism on the flag.... Its not even comparable to your ignorant suggestions because the others are blatantly racist.

Its just like I wouldn't call someone a nazi because they display the gammadion cross unless it came with the nazi colors.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Funny.
You compare the display of a flag with no words on it to someone yelling "Heil Hitler" or images that specifically state "Black Power".

Because myopic narrow minded people believe the confederate flag equates into racism doesn't mean it does.

Please point out the words of racism on the flag.... Its not even comparable to your ignorant suggestions because the others are blatantly racist.

Its just like I wouldn't call someone a nazi because they display the gammadion cross unless it came with the nazi colors.

There are no racist words on the flags I posted. Even if you drop the words, just use the symbols. Would you support them being flown on government property? The symbol of the black panthers and the confederate flag are comparable. Both represent racism to many. Both represent history and pride for others. These are very directly comparable. If they are not, please let me know how they differ.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

It is a bull**** excuse for people to justify displaying a symbol knowing exactly what it is and what they are doing and the message they are trying to send with it. If a group of people started displaying swastikas and yelling heil hitler all the time and claimed it was not because of the nazi germany era but because they really like 90 degree angles and words that start with H would you buy that crap too? The confederate flag has been used quite a few times in history. It was flown as a symbol of a divided country by those desperately trying to cling to slavery. It largely disappeared for quite a while, then made a large comeback as a symbol of the dixiecrats who were largely running on a segregation platform. It has been used consistently by the KKK and other racist groups. The reason it was put up (and has not been taken down since) is largely believed to have been a symbol of SC's opposition to desegregation in schools.

There are a number of symbols that could be used in the south as a symbol of pride, symbols that are not so closely tied to racism time and time again. This flag in politics and movements has always represented one thing, and that is racism. Individuals can do what they'd like. Putting a symbol that has only been used in politics for the repression of people on government grounds as a symbol of pride is at the very least extremely poor judgement.

How would you feel if Obama were to demand that all Federal buildings fly

View attachment 67186209
or

View attachment 67186211


Not as a racial group but a symbol of pride for black americans? My guess is many in white america would be uncomfortable and would protest those being flown by our government as a symbol of our country regardless of the "reason" they are being flown, but because of what they represent to most people.

If they are yelling "Heil Hitler" it would be hard for them to claim that they aren't supportive of nazi policies and/or Hitler himself honestly.

Not that I have a problem with removing the confederate flag from government buildings mainly because I think only the US flag and specific state flags should fly over government buildings to avoid showing any sort of bias to any particular group of people. I do have an issue with so many people overreacting (like Amazon refusing to sell the flags) and getting upset about this. It is their freedom to do so, of course, but it is still an overreactive thing to do. And the media is not helping this situation. This is very similar to that whole noose thing about 7/8 years ago. Most young people never would have thought of a noose as racist, until they are being told by older generations that they should. That kind of thing doesn't help.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

What's your point?
Slavery was brought to this country by the immigrants who moved here. It was a practice accepted throughout the known world regardless of skin color. Even those who sold the slaves to the slave merchants earmarked for our shores were as dark skinned as the people they sold.

The left likes to talk a lot about "subjective" morality. That no one has the right to set objective morality for another. Well these folks didn't see anything wrong with slavery. It was a way of life they had been taught in another country. King George encouraged it because the more the colonies produced, the more money he collected. But the movement to stop the practice in this country started in the 1700's by church leaders, their congregations and the politicians they elected.

After the Civil War something wonderful changed and that is Blacks were being elected to office to represent their constituents.During Reconstruction, some 2,000 African Americans held public office, from the local level all the way up to the U.S. Senate, though they never achieved representation in government proportionate to their numbers.
Black Leaders During Reconstruction - American Civil War - HISTORY.com

Race relations continued to heal till Democrat Woodrow Wilson became president. Things went from Blacks being elected in the South to public office to that big elitist segregationist Wilson segregating the Federal offices in government making black folks work separately from whites. The Dixiecrats (Southern Democrat politicians) had a real friend in Woodrow Wilson. Much of the progress made in race relations because of that bozo were lost. Ironically the years of Wilson's presidency are called the Progressive Era.

Fast forward to the Civil Rights movement. The Dixiecrat elites had a stronghold on the Southern states and did everything they could to thwart the passage of the Civil Rights bill. Their unwillingness to approve Civil rights legislation started long before President Johnson. It began when Eisenhower and Republicans brought the matter before Congress. They were successful in thwarting it until Republicans in Congress working with Democrats in favor of the civil rights bill that eventually garnered enough votes for passage. It was a Republican who penned the final bill that was passed into law and signed by President Johnson. And President Johnson certainly gave the Republicans the credit for its passage.
What you might not know about the 1964 Civil Rights Act - CNNPolitics.com

But today the rhetoric spewing out of the left is a real fairytale. They have proven they are willing to take race baiting to an all time new level to camouflage the truth and the wall of shame that has taken them over a century to build.


Because you keep accusing the left of dishonesty, I just wanted to see how honest you were by posting the truth about slavery just to see if you agreed or disagreed. But you seem to have ignored the link I posted which suggests that you're not very honest yourself.
 
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Re: Confederate Flag

Someone posted yesterday (in one of the million threads about this :lol:) a list of the states who went to war with the North, and their reasons for doing so, and the reasons were for slavery (and this came from the states themselves). So you can tell them until you are blue in the face that the States went to war over slavery, and people are going to plug their ears and believe what they choose. Facts are irrelevant.

Her response has just proven you right. I know she must've read some of the link I posted because she proceeded to give me a brief synopsis of the Civil War while completely avoiding the facts mentioned in the link I posted.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Her response has just proven you right. I know she must've read some of the link I posted because she proceeded to give me a brief synopsis of the Civil War while completely avoiding the facts mentioned in the link I posted.

And that is even scarier. That they read about it and still bury their heads in the sand.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

If you think that hundreds of thousands of southerners joined the cause of the south to fight for the purpose of slavery........ when only a small fraction owned slaves........ you are sorely mistaken.
Slavery was the cause of the war and the cause of secession. Also, one can take up arms for a cause that he supports, yet is not directly involved in. Many within the SS likely did not carry out ethnic cleansing on their own behalf, yet fought on the behalf of a movement that explicitly supported such.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Slavery was the cause of the war and the cause of secession. One can very well fight for a cause that he himself is not involved in :shrug:

That's incorrect.

The root causes of the Civil War can be broken down into States Rights, Slavery, Political and Economic considerations. Slavery, while listed as a separate cause, had significant influence on the other three. An understanding of the above influences of the time will reveal, however, that slavery, while factoring into the various causes in different degrees, should not be considered the sole cause of the Civil War.
Overview
 
Re: Confederate Flag

But the USA *was recognized as a nation.

The CSA *never* was.

By anyone.

Not for over a year... Here, the Maori are trying to get an official Maori Flag to represent what was never a recognized nation but all the while, this "unofficial flag" is flying on government buildings. So what?

Besides that is not relevant to the thread.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Obnoxious.

There was literally NOTHING obnoxious in that post. :lol:


Dismissive.

Morocco was the first country to formally recognize the US as an independent country in 1777...

I don't care what Morocco has to say about our history and I will stick with the State Department as a source:

Frequently Asked Questions
What country was the first to recognize the United States?

France recognized the United States as an independent state on February 6, 1778.


https://history.state.gov/about/faq/first-to-recognize-US

Not sure, but I don't think the US had an official flag at that time.

Actually, we did.

On June 14, 1777, the Second Continental Congress passed the Flag Resolution which stated: "Resolved, That the flag of the thirteen United States be thirteen stripes, alternate red and white; that the union be thirteen stars, white in a blue field, representing a new constellation."

A Century of Lawmaking for a New Nation: U.S. Congressional Documents and Debates, 1774 - 1875
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Considering their economy was agriculture based, and thus much more dependent upon slave labor than the more industrial North......

Even southerners knew it was wrong to hold slaves at this point, but they had little choice else.

Agreed....
 
Re: Confederate Flag

at least i finally got you to admit they are capitalists... that's progress in my book
anytime i can get a quasi-socialist far left hater to admit to reality, it's a good day.

oh, btw, i said nothign of unregulated capitalism.. that's your strawman and yours alone... you own it, you keep it.

I've never said that capitalism wasn't an integral part of our governmental systems - it certainly is. BUT the key is that it's REGULATED.

And when it comes to the 'hater' remark, seems to me that might be a classic example of projection. I don't hate you, and I don't hate conservatives (most of my friends are quite conservative)...but it may well be that if you do hate liberals and what we stand for, you assume that I must do the same for conservatives and conservatism.

But to really understand what I just pointed out requires a measure of empathy...and as far as I've seen, 'empathy' with those they oppose is not a trait that a lot of conservatives value.

I've traveled the world, thanks... I even have a home and property in Colombia.

and again.. keep your strawman to yourself.. i'm not interested.

Then you have seen deregulated capitalism at work. You have seen what it's like when there is so little effective regulation at every level. And you have seen how the rich there are effectively untouchable, how the largest, richest businesses can't be effectively regulated...and because of this, it's too easy for them to crush their competition. Now, did you ever make the connection between the lack of effective regulation and the economic conditions of that country?
 
Re: Confederate Flag

There was literally NOTHING obnoxious in that post. :lol:



Dismissive.



I don't care what Morocco has to say about our history and I will stick with the State Department as a source:

Frequently Asked Questions
What country was the first to recognize the United States?

France recognized the United States as an independent state on February 6, 1778.


https://history.state.gov/about/faq/first-to-recognize-US
The link that says 'France', doesn't say it's the first....it just says it's one of the oldest....

"France is one of the oldest U.S. allies, dating to 1778 when the French monarchy recognized the independence of the United States.'

https://history.state.gov/countries/france


One of the oldest does not make it the oldest. So emailed them to ask for a correction. It will be interesting to see if they do anything. lol


Actually, we did.

On June 14, 1777, the Second Continental Congress passed the Flag Resolution which stated: "Resolved, That the flag of the thirteen United States be thirteen stripes, alternate red and white; that the union be thirteen stars, white in a blue field, representing a new constellation."

A Century of Lawmaking for a New Nation: U.S. Congressional Documents and Debates, 1774 - 1875

Good, now I know.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

The link that says 'France', doesn't say it's the first....it just says it's one of the oldest....

"France is one of the oldest U.S. allies, dating to 1778 when the French monarchy recognized the independence of the United States.'

https://history.state.gov/countries/france


One of the oldest does not make it the oldest. So emailed them to ask for a correction. It will be interesting to see if they do anything. lol




Good, now I know.

:lol: You can't be serious? One of the oldest is THE OLDEST if it is... wait for it, THE OLDEST.

My first link has a FAQ: What country was the first to recognize the United States?


Answer: France

:lol:
 
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