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Confederate Flag[W:1518,2230, 2241]

Should the Confederate Flag be abolished?

  • Yes

    Votes: 55 30.2%

  • No

    Votes: 127 69.8%
  • Total voters
    182
Re: Confederate Flag

shrubnose said:
They can have it tattooed on their forehead if they want.

But no state should give any racist any reason to think that the state supports their racism.
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Germans are racist. French people are racist. British people are racist. What world do you live in that you want to pretend at least SOME portion of the people in a country arent racist?
 
Re: Confederate Flag

HowardBThiname said:
That's my point exactly. For millions upon millions the CF is a flag that honors the fallen. It's a remembrance of the rape and pillage of the South.

That's not racism.
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THAT'S where it belongs: In cemeteries and museums.

Do you deny it was used abundantly in the CR era to intimidate blacks who were under the Jum crow laws and starting to fight back?

When did it go up in Southern statehouses?
 
Re: Confederate Flag

HowardBThiname said:
OMG! Where are all the flag-banners hiding?

Get rid of that damn thing before it bites someone!
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Man...you dont even want to KNOW what the Cherokee, Creek, and others did to their conquered foes...

No American Indian should have pride in their heritage. Because some of those bastards were brutal racist ****s at one point in their existence!
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Bodhisattva said:
...and then I counter with, so were all the state flags of the South. Ban them all from government buildings then?
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Just because that flag has been part of a particular state's flag for generations doesn't automatically make it right or proper. Y'all gotta be careful of trying to use that "that's the way it's always been" line for justification.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

HowardBThiname said:
You just made my point for me. The Confederate flag does not symbolize racism except for those who take part in a "nearly nonexistant activity," namely white supremacists. For the millions upon millions of others - it is a symbol that honors the fallen.
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As I already pointed out, those want to display it PERSONALLY can do so, no matter how confused their use of it is.
You can claim that I have little knowledge or understanding of history if you so chose - we both know your argument is McCarthyist in nature. And, you can call him a "conservative," but he leaned toward fascism to ensure that everyone despised communism. He went so far as to question Ronald Reagan. McCarthy found communism as disgusting as you find the Confederacy.

Nice bed pal there.
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McCarthy was a conservative, and I see your argument trying to equate fascism with liberalism in this and other posts, it again displays this hodgepodge of confused polisci understanding. But as I said, the idea that internal communism is as pervasive in US society as racism is....is absurd on so many levels. Further, the denial of how important, key to the South, was slavery, again shows just how far from reality your argument is, along with grasping at straws your references to a Wisconsin Senator are.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

I voted no. It's just political pandering by dems like hillary who needs petty issues to rant on about. Let the south keep their flag, it's part of their heritage and history. Crimes committed under it? Sure, same as crimes committed under stars and stripes and nobody is trying to abolish the stars and stripes.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

HowardBThiname said:
South Carolina put it up for their centennial.
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Aaaaand...



The Confederate battle flag in South Carolina was first flown at the statehouse in 1961. "It was flown as a symbol of massive resistance to racial desegregation."

— Eugene Robinson on Sunday, June 21st, 2015 in comments on NBC's "Meet the Press"




rulings%2Ftom-mostlytrue.gif


http://www.politifact.com/punditfac...erate-flag-wasnt-flown-south-carolina-state-/
 
Re: Confederate Flag

It's just a flag. Good, bad, or otherwise, historical use is not to be blamed on a piece of cloth. We never banned the Nazi flag. Once you ban something, you give more power to it than it formally had.

I voted No.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Because of what it represented overtime and what it's associated with yes.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

VanceMack said:
Germans are racist. French people are racist. British people are racist.
What world do you live in that you want to pretend at least SOME portion of the people in a country arent racist?
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There are racists all over this planet. No country is totally free of racism.

But that doesn't mean that we should stop fighting racism.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Gimmesometruth said:
As I already pointed out, those want to display it PERSONALLY can do so, no matter how confused their use of it is.
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The point is not whether they "can" display it - the point is that you're denigrating something they hold near and dear. They are not the confused ones. The confused ones are those who think it is - or should be seen as - racist.


McCarthy was a conservative, and I see your argument trying to equate fascism with liberalism in this and other posts, it again displays this hodgepodge of confused polisci understanding. But as I said, the idea that internal communism is as pervasive in US society as racism is....is absurd on so many levels. Further, the denial of how important, key to the South, was slavery, again shows just how far from reality your argument is, along with grasping at straws your references to a Wisconsin Senator are.
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Your argument is becoming disjointed as you jump back and forth to prove some evasive point. There are undeniable similarties between the flag-banners and both traditional fascism and McCarthy's tactics. All three seek to quell opinions that differ from their own and to legislate thought. McCarthy wasn't just a "Wisconsin Senator." He launched a witch hunt against those he claimed supported communism. Just like now, people were pointing fingers at their neighbors - and McCarthy used it to his advantage. He extolled the evils of communism, although there was very little communism going around. Just as today, there is very little racism associated with the Confederate Flag, as you've been shown.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

shrubnose said:
There are racists all over this planet. No country is totally free of racism.

But that doesn't mean that we should stop fighting racism.
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Of course not. Who would suggest otherwise? But to demonize entire nations because of the actions of some is inane and corrupt.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

HowardBThiname said:
Because it strips the Southern people of the symbol they use to honor their fallen. It takes something they see as beautiful and tries to make it ugly.
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HowardBThiname said:
That sounds good in theory, but that's not what the flag represents to the people of the South. This is what it represents - the fallen - and this is what you're denigrating:
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HowardBThiname said:
You're certainly welcome to your opinion, but that opinion isn't shared by the majority of the South.
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You should stop talking for the South because you are wrong. I am from the South, born and raised, and I live here now. I can promise you that many, white and black, do not feel this way.

In 2010, 55 percent of the black population lived in the South, and 105 Southern counties had a black population of 50 percent or higher. Of the total U.S. population of 308.7 million on April 1, 2010, 38.9 million people, or 13 percent, identified as black alone.
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Now go ask 39 million people, who live, and work, raise families, and die in the South, how they feel about having to do so under that flag. Ask them what the flag means to them.

Go ask them. I'll wait.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Paperview said:
Aaaaand...



The Confederate battle flag in South Carolina was first flown at the statehouse in 1961. "It was flown as a symbol of massive resistance to racial desegregation."

— Eugene Robinson on Sunday, June 21st, 2015 in comments on NBC's "Meet the Press"




rulings%2Ftom-mostlytrue.gif


http://www.politifact.com/punditfac...erate-flag-wasnt-flown-south-carolina-state-/
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From your link:

Robinson stated that when the Confederate flag was first flown over South Carolina’s statehouse in 1961, and it was hoisted as a symbol of "massive resistance to racial desegregation."

Robinson is right on the date. The flag first flew over the statehouse to mark the opening ceremonies of a Civil War Centennial celebration.

Whether it was raised as a deliberate symbol of a "resistance to racial desegregation" is not completely clear. Experts and research find a circumstantial link between the spread of the flag and the racial divisions of the 1950s and 1960s.
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You do know what "circumstantial" means, don't you?

It means there's really no proof. It might be - it might not be. What we DO know, however, is that the flag has held a place of honor for decades prior to that - and even if you're right - that wouldn't erase the cultural importance to the millions who honor it for the right reason.

I don't care if they do or do not take it down.

The damage is already done. The media and Leftists have created a feeding frenzy and, in doing so, have dishonored all the citizens of the South who held the flag in high regard - not for racist purposes.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

HowardBThiname said:
From your link:



You do know what "circumstantial" means, don't you?

It means there's really no proof. It might be - it might not be. What we DO know, however, is that the flag has held a place of honor for decades prior to that - and even if you're right - that wouldn't erase the cultural importance to the millions who honor it for the right reason.

I don't care if they do or do not take it down.

The damage is already done. The media and Leftists have created a feeding frenzy and, in doing so, have dishonored all the citizens of the South who held the flag in high regard - not for racist purposes.
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"Circumstantial", hm?

Those of us who grew up in the Deep South know better. That's every bit as circumstantial as Mississippi's congress voting to FINALLY ratify the 13th Amendment (Banning slavery) in 1995 - yes, 1995 - but somehow forgetting to send in the paperwork to D.C. for finalization of that ratification until 20-freaking-13...TWO YEARS AGO. The 'excuse' was, "well, ha-rumph, it was all simply an administrative error, you know"...but again, those of us who grew up in the Deep South know better.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Superfly said:
You should stop talking for the South because you are wrong. I am from the South, born and raised, and I live here now. I can promise you that many, white and black, do not feel this way.



Now go ask 39 million people, who live, and work, raise families, and die in the South, how they feel about having to do so under that flag. Ask them what the flag means to them.

Go ask them. I'll wait.
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My inlaws - a HUGE extended family - live in the deep South. They are very hurt by these accusations of racism. It's very personal to them. My sister in law runs a volunteer organization called "Helping Hands" that collects and distributes items to the very poor. Most of the recipients are black and my sister in law feels honored to be of service. She's also a member of the Daughters of the Confederacy and she's very proud of her fallen ancestors.

You have your opinion, but that's all it is - YOUR opinion. Don't try to speak for others - because they might not agree with you.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Glen Contrarian said:
"Circumstantial", hm?

Those of us who grew up in the Deep South know better. That's every bit as circumstantial as Mississippi's congress voting to FINALLY ratify the 13th Amendment (Banning slavery) in 1995 - yes, 1995 - but somehow forgetting to send in the paperwork to D.C. for finalization of that ratification until 20-freaking-13...TWO YEARS AGO. The 'excuse' was, "well, ha-rumph, it was all simply an administrative error, you know"...but again, those of us who grew up in the Deep South know better.
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I've never heard that story before, but what's your point? Do you think they were going to try to start slavery back up? Do you really think that could have happened? :roll:
 
Re: Confederate Flag

HowardBThiname said:
My inlaws - a HUGE extended family - live in the deep South. They are very hurt by these accusations of racism. It's very personal to them. My sister in law runs a volunteer organization called "Helping Hands" that collects and distributes items to the very poor. Most of the recipients are black and my sister in law feels honored to be of service. She's also a member of the Daughters of the Confederacy and she's very proud of her fallen ancestors.

You have your opinion, but that's all it is - YOUR opinion. Don't try to speak for others - because they might not agree with you.
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So you are speaking for the entire south, but telling me not to speak for others, simply because you have a handful of inlaws who live here? :lol:

That's rich.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Kreton said:
Rather than reply to this right now I feel like you should read up on the civil war and specifically causes of the civil war, why it started and how it started. Events leading up to the war ect. Once you have done that please let me know and then we can have this discussion.
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Which biased article should I read?
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Fruityfact said:
The flag, or rather flags your great great grand father fought under weren't even the same flags. The current battle flag was adopted in the civil rights era... as an opposition to civil rights. So no, it doesn't stand for this heritage and that blah, it simply doesn't.
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The flag that has so many upset is actually the Northern Va. battle flag.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

HowardBThiname said:
I've never heard that story before, but what's your point? Do you think they were going to try to start slavery back up? Do you really think that could have happened? :roll:
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Incredible. Simply freaking incredible. He seems to think that it was of no importance whatsoever that Mississippi didn't finalize ratification of the 13th Amendment until 2013...or, apparently, that they ratified it at all.

And yet conservatives and Republicans wonder why they lost the African-American vote....
 
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