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Confederate Flag[W:1518,2230, 2241]

Should the Confederate Flag be abolished?

  • Yes

    Votes: 55 30.2%
  • No

    Votes: 127 69.8%

  • Total voters
    182
Re: Confederate Flag

Yes and no... The North, or the United States of America, openly allowed slavery in the South. It was not like they were fighting to end it, it was the South that seceeded that brought war. The USA was not some noble nation it allowed slavery, slaughtered the Native Americans and was hell deep into open racism against everybody basically not of Anglo-Saxon descent.

Sure. And, from what I glean from reading about the day, had not the abolitionists forced their hand, the South would have gradually abandoned the idea of holding slaves. The writing that slavery was becoming unsustainable was on the wall. Lincoln even preferred it play itself out, clearly stating that he would allow slavery if it would hold together the union.

The South left long before Lincoln took office though. Buchanan was president when they walked out, and he famously said that the South had no right to secede and the North had no right to stop them. Classic waffler if ever there was one.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

By "the state's-rights crowd," I assume you mean true Americans who respect the federalist system designed into our Constitution, and expressed in the Tenth Amendment. The Framers viewed the concentration of power in a national government as an invitation to tyranny and a threat to individual liberties, just as I do, and they carefully structured the Constitution to prevent it. That structure thwarts the centralized control statists so dearly want, and it is an important reason why they, with their taste for totalitarian government, loathe the Constitution and most things American.

So if the states wanted to enslave black people, or choose to do so again, or re-institute segregation, that would be OK with you on the Holy Justification of States' Rights? :lamoLook, most of us didn't fall off the turnip truck. We know exactly what 'States' Rights' means.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Yes and no... The North, or the United States of America, openly allowed slavery in the South. It was not like they were fighting to end it, it was the South that seceeded that brought war. The USA was not some noble nation it allowed slavery, slaughtered the Native Americans and was hell deep into open racism against everybody basically not of Anglo-Saxon descent.

Gee, thanks for the history lesson. How are you folks doing with your native population. Still keeping them in line?
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Gee, thanks for the history lesson. How are you folks doing with your native population. Still keeping them in line?

The Maori were treated better than just about any other native population, actually. Kiwis have incorporated/are incorporating cultural balance into the education system, repaying loans and land to tribes, setting them up with loan programs to start businesses, have Maori immersion education, openly celebrate Maori culture in government and still keep a treaty with them that is actively used in all aspects of New Zealand life/culture. How are the Native Americans doing? Drunk and and crappy land except for a few tribes like the one in Mississippi that got some good loans from banks, not government help but BANKS.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

To perhaps a couple billion people TODAY that swastica represents prosperity, heaven, bounty and peace, among other things, as I said.

That's a rather absurd comment. You can't tell me that you would be so profoundly insensitive as to walk around in just about any state in the US with a swastika Tshirt on or waiving a flag with a swastika from your big ass truck. No, you wouldn't. Neither would you walk down any American street and starting flipping people your middle finger.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

sure it does, if one is honest and objective with themself

Honest and objective? Really? And who defines what qualifies as honest and objective ?
 
Re: Confederate Flag

So if the states wanted to enslave black people, or choose to do so again, or re-institute segregation, that would be OK with you on the Holy Justification of States' Rights? :lamoLook, most of us didn't fall off the turnip truck. We know exactly what 'States' Rights' means.

If you think that states' rights is some sort of code, you don't.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

facts define honesty and objectivity.

Honestly T what is and is not actually a fact seems to be unclear to many on this board. There is what is known vs what one "thinks" they know, the latter often being confused as fact.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Honestly T what is and is not actually a fact seems to be unclear to many on this board. There is what is known vs what one "thinks" they know, the latter often being confused as fact.

I'm dealing in what is known.... historic facts.

facts that don't fit the latest narrative, but facts nonetheless.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

I'm dealing in what is known.... historic facts.

facts that don't fit the latest narrative, but facts nonetheless.

So share please. Be specific.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

The Confederate flag is a racist symbol and no state should require it to be displayed.

It will be gone from every state display in the near future.

Wait and see.

Of course that won't stop you or anyone else from having it tattooed on your forehead.

:lol:

When someone starts that type of insulting, it becomes obvious that they know they're on shaky ground. I told you that you would win this one. I'm just telling you that your victory is a loss for truth and integrity. I don't have a confederate flag. I don't even own an American flag, so your insult is as misplaced as is your idea that you can make the world a better place by shoving your personal ideology down others' throats. No one said a state should be "required" to display the flag, it's only been said that, as a determining part of some states' cultures, it should be "allowed."

Remember my prediction. You will take this symbol and turn it into a racist symbol that every skinhead sews onto his clothing. That will be the result of your insistence on making it a racist symbol. You're driving a racial wedge - and you're not alone. Your intent is to "stick it to those racists in the South" by forcing them to abandon their history.

That's not liberalism - that's pure fascism.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

...

Remember my prediction. You will take this symbol and turn it into a racist symbol that every skinhead sews onto his clothing. That will be the result of your insistence on making it a racist symbol. You're driving a racial wedge - and you're not alone. Your intent is to "stick it to those racists in the South" by forcing them to abandon their history.

That's not liberalism - that's pure fascism.

1. It already *is* a racist symbol - it doesn't need to be turned into one.

"that every skinhead sews onto his clothing"

2. I'm quite on board with that. Makes it much easier to spot who the ignorant, racist ****nuts are.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

1. It already *is* a racist symbol - it doesn't need to be turned into one.

"that every skinhead sews onto his clothing"

2. I'm quite on board with that. Makes it much easier to spot who the ignorant, racist ****nuts are.

So - you're into radicalizing extremists?

Good to know.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

And why would that happen? Do you find my post to be historically wrong...or offensive? If so, how?

I'm a patriot, and I stand when the flag passes by with my hand on my heart. You should do likewise.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

So - you're into radicalizing extremists?

Good to know.

If they're skinheads (in the commonly accepted usage) -- they are already radical White Supremacists. Placing the American swastika on their clothing just helps to more easily identify them.

You got a problem with that?
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Really?

And, what is it you think they mean, pray tell?

Here, let Nixon's GOP strategist help to explain it a little:

"You start out in 1954 by saying, “Nigger, nigger, nigger.” By 1968 you can’t say “nigger”—that hurts you, backfires.

So you say stuff like, uh, forced busing, states’ rights, and all that stuff, and you’re getting so abstract. Now, you’re talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you’re talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is, blacks get hurt worse than whites.… “We want to cut this,” is much more abstract than even the busing thing, uh, and a hell of a lot more abstract than “Nigger, nigger.”

Exclusive: Lee Atwater



ETA: I would have thought that word was a filtered word here. If it's not allowed, someone please let me know...
 
Re: Confederate Flag

If they're skinheads (in the commonly accepted usage) -- they are already radical White Supremacists. Placing the American swastika on their clothing just helps to more easily identify them.

You got a problem with that?

I have a problem with people trying to start a race war - yes.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

The American flag represents freedom. It may have been a symbol of America during an unfortunate period in our history but that is not what it represents today. The confederate flag has always representes slavery. That has never changed.

You have no clue what the Confederate flag stands for, and it doesn't have anything to do with slavery. What it does have to do, though is the original concept of 13 free states having their own rights to do and make laws as they see fit as was the original design of the US Constitution, but it was northern aggression and oppression that made the southern states secede from the union. Take a look at that battle flag and you will see an X with 13 stars in it and an all red, white, and blue flag. My great great grand father died fighting for the Confederacy. He never had slaves his entire life, but he was fighting for his home and freedom from tyranny. He definitely wasn't fighting for slavery.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

At least that flag wins wars. The other one got it's ass handed to it in the only war ever fought for it.

It hasn't won too many wars after World War II, though. It's not fashionable to win wars anymore.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

I have a problem with people trying to start a race war - yes.

Then you should have a problem with the State sanctioned use of the American Swastika bestowing legitimacy to a flag that was flown in the name of perpetuating White Supremacy.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Here, let Nixon's GOP strategist help to explain it a little:

"You start out in 1954 by saying, “Nigger, nigger, nigger.” By 1968 you can’t say “nigger”—that hurts you, backfires.

So you say stuff like, uh, forced busing, states’ rights, and all that stuff, and you’re getting so abstract. Now, you’re talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you’re talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is, blacks get hurt worse than whites.… “We want to cut this,” is much more abstract than even the busing thing, uh, and a hell of a lot more abstract than “Nigger, nigger.”

Exclusive: Lee Atwater



ETA: I would have thought that word was a filtered word here. If it's not allowed, someone please let me know...

Yeah, I was a little surprised to find that word....

While that was Atwater's opinion, and perhaps he even thought it was a strategy, he certainly does not represent the mass of citizens who understand that States' Rights is a system of checks and balances that keep our federal government from becoming overbearing.

Anyone who remembers their history lessons of how Britain treated the colonists will recall that our Founders wanted to keep that from happening again.

Atwater was an ass and a racist.

His personal opinion, however, is no more than just that - an opinion. And, you know what they say about opinions and assholes don't you?
 
Re: Confederate Flag

You have no clue what the Confederate flag stands for, and it doesn't have anything to do with slavery. What it does have to do, though is the original concept of 13 free states having their own rights to do and make laws as they see fit as was the original design of the US Constitution, but it was northern aggression and oppression that made the southern states secede from the union. Take a look at that battle flag and you will see an X with 13 stars in it and an all red, white, and blue flag. My great great grand father died fighting for the Confederacy. He never had slaves his entire life, but he was fighting for his home and freedom from tyranny. He definitely wasn't fighting for slavery.


Those stars represent the claimed, traitorous Confederate States of America, not the 13 original States.
 
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