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Confederate Flag[W:1518,2230, 2241]

Should the Confederate Flag be abolished?

  • Yes

    Votes: 55 30.2%
  • No

    Votes: 127 69.8%

  • Total voters
    182
Re: Confederate Flag

Any state that chooses to can display the Stars and Bars just as long as it damned well pleases.
What authority do you imagine you have, or anyone else not resident in a state has, to tell that state it cannot fly that flag? I know it's a constant source of vexation for statists, but we have a federal government in this country--not a national one.



It will be gone soon everywhere.

Wait and see.

Of course you can still get it tattooed on your forehead.

:lol:
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Ello, Mate...from Byron Bay, Australia.

Bod, you're right. The American Flag flew for a long time when slavery was not only legal, but was the reason so many people like Washington and Jefferson were able to grow their wealth as they did. Washington was worth $500 Million (in today's money) and Jefferson somewhere about $200 Million. Jefferson not only used slaves for labor, but bred and sold slaves.

Until the Civil Right Act 1964 - blacks were still almost slaves. They were free - but with very limited means.

Don't fret, the American flag will be next, replaced by the Red Army hammer and sickle.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

It will be gone soon everywhere.

Wait and see.

Of course you can still get it tattooed on your forehead.

:lol:

You keep repeating that - it's been around now for 154 years, but now - this racist killing in SC is the flashpoint for the confederate flags demise everywhere. You know, I'm not a betting man but if I had to bet on it I'd say that within 2 weeks the issue in the media will die down to a slow simmer and the confederate flag will still be where it's always been. YOU wait and see.

I'll bookmark this thread and we'll come back to it say September 23rd and we'll see if as you state, "It will be gone soon everywhere".
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Are Southerners proud of that because from what I have seen the grief and love being displayed by Southerners is ASTOUNDING.



It might but we will have to wait and see... declaring it done before it happens is silly though.



How do you know? Maybe time stops all the time and we just don't know it happens.



He died a few years ago, so what? Show some respect.

That said, what ridiculous logic shrub, unlike you from what I remember... dead people have all sorts of power from martyrs to teachers to lessons, etc. Gandhi, Hitler,
;)



How did a 2000 year old half Jewish zombie get a Mexican name?

Fill us in.

:lol:
 
Re: Confederate Flag

You keep repeating that - it's been around now for 154 years, but now - this racist killing in SC is the flashpoint for the confederate flags demise everywhere. You know, I'm not a betting man but if I had to bet on it I'd say that within 2 weeks the issue in the media will die down to a slow simmer and the confederate flag will still be where it's always been. YOU wait and see.

I'll bookmark this thread and we'll come back to it say September 23rd and we'll see if as you state, "
It will be gone soon everywhere".



It will be gone. There's a strong push to get this done, read the news.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

It will be gone. There's a strong push to get this done, read the news.


You telling me to read the news... :lamo Tell you what, we'll come back to it in September and see who's right. Mmkay?
 
Re: Confederate Flag

So you want us to get rid of the confederate flag and the stars and stripes? What the hell do you want us to use then? :cuckoo:
H]

I am saying the opposite.. . don't get rid of EITHER.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

So had the colonies lost waving the American Flag would be wrong too? That's interesting...

If the colonies lost, there would be no flag to wave.

...unless, of course, you wanted to wave this.
270px-Grand_Union_Flag.svg.png
 
Re: Confederate Flag

By "the state's-rights crowd," I assume you mean true Americans who respect the federalist system designed into our Constitution, and expressed in the Tenth Amendment. The Framers viewed the concentration of power in a national government as an invitation to tyranny and a threat to individual liberties, just as I do, and they carefully structured the Constitution to prevent it. That structure thwarts the centralized control statists so dearly want, and it is an important reason why they, with their taste for totalitarian government, loathe the Constitution and most things American.

Do you include George Washington as one of the 'framers'? Because he was one of the proponents - and perhaps the strongest proponent - of a strong federal government over the confederation we'd had until the Constitutional Convention.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

The American Flag represents all of that too, as does the Union Jack of England, the Aussie flag and Southern State Flags... so?

But only the CF was carried on a battlefield in a fight against the USA for the express purpose of preserving slavery.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

That's a great example of a false equivalency. The Confederacy held as immutable divine law that blacks were not equal to whites, somehow less than human...and the Nazis held as immutable law that Jews (and other minorities and disabled people) were not equal to Aryans, somehow less than human. The only real difference is that while the Confederates saw blacks as property and enslaved them from cradle to grave (and could rape or kill them with legal impunity), the Nazis not only enslaved the 'lesser races' but also killed them en masse.

So...no, this is not a case of a violation of Godwin's Law - it's simply pointing out that what the Confederacy was doing was in fact a heck of a lot closer to life under the Nazis than in the abolitionist Union states.

...and what does any of that have to do with getting rid of the Confederate Flag?
 
Re: Confederate Flag

But only the CF was carried on a battlefield in a fight against the USA for the express purpose of preserving slavery.

The point was that they all represented slavery, racism, etc.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
Ello, Mate...from Byron Bay, Australia.

Bod, you're right. The American Flag flew for a long time when slavery was not only legal, but was the reason so many people like Washington and Jefferson were able to grow their wealth as they did. Washington was worth $500 Million (in today's money) and Jefferson somewhere about $200 Million. Jefferson not only used slaves for labor, but bred and sold slaves.

Until the Civil Right Act 1964 - blacks were still almost slaves. They were free - but with very limited means.

Don't fret, the American flag will be next, replaced by the Red Army hammer and sickle.

And why would that happen? Do you find my post to be historically wrong...or offensive? If so, how?
 
Re: Confederate Flag

The point was that they all represented slavery, racism, etc.

But only one was carried in the fight to preserve it.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

...and what does any of that have to do with getting rid of the Confederate Flag?

What would you think of, say, Idaho deciding to fly the Nazi flag at their state capitol? This is how we should be seeing any Confederate flag flown on state property.

If someone just wants to fly the stars and bars just because he's a wannabe Johnnie Reb, that's a first-amendment right, as is a skinhead's right to fly the Nazi flag. But on taxpayer-funded state property, the flag of what was by definition a treasonous rebellion against America does not belong.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

But only one was carried in the fight to preserve it.

Indeed.

The Confederate battle flag was pretty much put in the closet for many decades after the Civil War. A small resurgence came about in the late 1800's and early 1900's -- when the Jim Crow laws, literacy tests, state mandated segregation - and basically full stomping on the Civil Rights of blacks in the South came about.

That short bit of time after the 15th Amendment blacks were allowed to vote, and it was Federally enforced - was gone.

For example, have a glaring look at raw disenfranchisement of the black population circa early 1890's, Mississippi -

In 1867, Miss., African Americans made up 56% of all Registered voters. (~66,000)

In 1890, they made up 25%

In 1892, they made up only 3%.


By 1900 ---> 0.4%

mississippi_zps7a6d5501.jpg


Source: Struggle for Mastery: Disfranchisement in the South, 1888-1908 (Fred W. Morrison Series in Southern Studies)

http://books.google.com/books?id=b8...sement in the South, 1890 mississippi&f=false

Look at the other states as well. Pretty amazing.

At this same time, a resurfacing of Confederate "nobility" came about, and United Confederate Veterans, the United Daughters of the Confederacy set about to rewriting the history of the War.

They started portraying the CSA as being about things like the tariffs, and States' Rights, and tried to whitewash the slavery aspect out of it altogether - and to the extent slavery existed, it was a benevolent kind, with gentle Mammies, generous, loving slaveowners, and happy happy slaves.

They did this to justify Jim Crow and the White Supremacy that brought out KKK and other paramilitary organizations that were terrorizing and intimidating the hell out of the the blacks at that time.

The Confederate Flag saw it's full resurgence during the Dixiecrat era, and later, when men came home from WWII, and tried to reintegrate into the South -- and roundabout the same time Civil Rights activists started pushing for equality.

That flag was trotted out in abundance then - and it's purpose was to intimidate and reinforce boldly : White Supremacy Reigns.

It's not about "bringing back slavery" as I've heard some people strawman -- It's long been a symbol of White Supremacy, and has been used as such for a long time.

Do some yokels just fly it because they are ignorant of this? Sure. Doesn't make them any less ignorant.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

It was the battle flag of the soldiers... had nothing to do with slavery

Semantics. The soldiers fought to preserve slavery, and the flag represented the soldiers. It represents what the soldiers fought for.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Indeed.

The Confederate battle flag was pretty much put in the closet for many decades after the Civil War. A small resurgence came about in the late 1800's and early 1900's -- when the Jim Crow laws, literacy tests, state mandated segregation - and basically full stomping on the Civil Rights of blacks in the South came about.

That short bit of time after the 15th Amendment blacks were allowed to vote, and it was Federally enforced - was gone.

For example, have a glaring look at raw disenfranchisement of the black population circa early 1890's, Mississippi -

In 1867, Miss., African Americans made up 56% of all Registered voters. (~66,000)

In 1890, they made up 25%

In 1892, they made up only 3%.


By 1900 ---> 0.4%

mississippi_zps7a6d5501.jpg


Source: Struggle for Mastery: Disfranchisement in the South, 1888-1908 (Fred W. Morrison Series in Southern Studies)

http://books.google.com/books?id=b8...sement in the South, 1890 mississippi&f=false

Look at the other states as well. Pretty amazing.

At this same time, a resurfacing of Confederate "nobility" came about, and United Confederate Veterans, the United Daughters of the Confederacy set about to rewriting the history of the War.

They started portraying the CSA as being about things like the tariffs, and States' Rights, and tried to whitewash the slavery aspect out of it altogether - and to the extent slavery existed, it was a benevolent kind, with gentle Mammies, generous, loving slaveowners, and happy happy slaves.

They did this to justify Jim Crow and the White Supremacy that brought out KKK and other paramilitary organizations that were terrorizing and intimidating the hell out of the the blacks at that time.

The Confederate Flag saw it's full resurgence during the Dixiecrat era, and later, when men came home from WWII, and tried to reintegrate into the South -- and roundabout the same time Civil Rights activists started pushing for equality.

That flag was trotted out in abundance then - and it's purpose was to intimidate and reinforce boldly : White Supremacy Reigns.

It's not about "bringing back slavery" as I've heard some people strawman -- It's long been a symbol of White Supremacy, and has been used as such for a long time.

Do some yokels just fly it because they are ignorant of this? Sure. Doesn't make them any less ignorant.

Excellent explanation.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

How did a 2000 year old half Jewish zombie get a Mexican name?

Fill us in.

:lol:

...and why is the J pronounced like an H ?
 
Re: Confederate Flag

What would you think of, say, Idaho deciding to fly the Nazi flag at their state capitol? This is how we should be seeing any Confederate flag flown on state property.

If someone just wants to fly the stars and bars just because he's a wannabe Johnnie Reb, that's a first-amendment right, as is a skinhead's right to fly the Nazi flag. But on taxpayer-funded state property, the flag of what was by definition a treasonous rebellion against America does not belong.

...and then I counter with, so were all the state flags of the South. Ban them all from government buildings then?
 
Re: Confederate Flag

But only one was carried in the fight to preserve it.

Maybe directly but all fought to preserve their cultures and those cultures included slavery and racism...
 
Re: Confederate Flag

No Symbol should be ever abolished or outlawed.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Maybe directly but all fought to preserve their cultures and those cultures included slavery and racism...

Up until about 1800 everyone had slaves, including the Africans from whom we bought our slaves. The problem is that as the rest of the Western world was learning to know better, the southern states doubled-down on stupid and went to war to preserve the institution. This shouldn't have to be explained.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Up until about 1800 everyone had slaves, including the Africans from whom we bought our slaves. The problem is that as the rest of the Western world was learning to know better, the southern states doubled-down on stupid and went to war to preserve the institution. This shouldn't have to be explained.

Yes and no... The North, or the United States of America, openly allowed slavery in the South. It was not like they were fighting to end it, it was the South that seceeded that brought war. The USA was not some noble nation it allowed slavery, slaughtered the Native Americans and was hell deep into open racism against everybody basically not of Anglo-Saxon descent.
 
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