Confederate Flag[W:1518,2230, 2241]

And I found this link https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confederate_Survivors_Association

The Confederate Survivors Association (CSA) was a benevolent, historical and social association dedicated to preserving the comradeship of those who served all functions of Confederate military and naval service. Membership was based upon service, accompanied with endorsements verifying that service

See, I can find stuff too on the internet paper view. :lamo

Ryriena said:

And I found this link https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confederate_Survivors_Association

The Confederate Survivors Association (CSA) was a benevolent, historical and social association dedicated to preserving the comradeship of those who served all functions of Confederate military and naval service. Membership was based upon service, accompanied with endorsements verifying that service

See, I can find stuff too on the internet paper view. :lamo

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What the hell? What do you think that proves? Some of these guys were former slavers, and it was just after Reconstruction.

What does fellow rebels benvolenting (sic) each other mean to you?

You think they suddenly dropped their White Supremacist views? You think the Resolution and what they wrote are fake?

Paperview said:

There is a link there, honey. Did you bother to click?

Need me to hand it to you on a platter?

Augusta, Georgia Chronicle, July 31, 1875, p. 4:

Why would that even surprise you? I mean, seriously.

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I am not buying this supposed article; as it comes from one source and I searched myself that's, why I said links please. The supposed article also seems too new for the article they listed if it came from 1875. The printing also seems off...

Also, just typed in The Calvery association and fake documents the dead confederate page popped :lamo

JasperL said:

No, the CSA soldiers didn't "earn" pension benefits from the United States, their enemy during that war.

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Now you are just making stupid arguments

Veterans benefits are earned by the person's service. It is not sucking off the teat.

A Veteran benefit is given in exchange for the service they perform/provided. And some of those benefits that were earned are passed on to the spouse and children of a deceased veteran, which is the natural course for that which was earned being passed down to family.

Which is different than sucking off the teat by those that did absolutely nothing in exchange for a handout. A handout isn't passed down to spouse or child. An earned benefit is.

In the the US the government conferred the same status on their own citizens for their service in the US Civil War. That benefit is a result of their service and therefore also an earned benefit. And this can be ascertained by realizing that this benefit wasn't given to every man from the supposed CSA. Only those in her military service.

All the arguments against acknowledging their veteran status as conferred upon them by the US for US veteran law, are lame.
That law made no distinction between USA and CSA service members. All those who served in the US Civil war are US Civil War veterans.

JasperL said:

Is the U.S. paying pensions to old German widows of WWII?

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Irrelevant argument.

Ryriena said:

I am not buying this supposed article; as it comes from one source and I searched myself that's, why I said links please. The supposed article also seems too new for the article they listed if it came from 1875. The printing also seems off...

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Oh Geezez Christ.

<a thousand facepalms>

Paperview said:

Oh Geezez Christ.

<a thousand facepalms>

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Just because, I don't buy ones evidence as the absolute truth makes it worthy of a faceplam? I need more sources than a page that is questionable at best since I did do a search with the CSA and fake documents and that particular page popped up in the search engine in page one....."

Ryriena said:

Also, just typed in The Calvery association and fake documents the dead confederate page popped :lamo

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If you seem intent on making a fool of yourself, be my guest.

About this Blog | Dead Confederates, A Civil War Era Blog

Paperview said:

If you seem intent on making a fool of yourself, be my guest.

About this Blog | Dead Confederates, A Civil War Era Blog

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How am I making a fool of myself, when it is you that clearly don't understand you have to have many documents and links to site your sources. What does that have too do with the fact Dead confederates seems non historical. It must be true it's on the Internet. :lamo

And what is amaaaaaaaaaaayzing to me is that you think former rapist slavers and those fighting for White Supremacy would somehow take offense the the KKK leader making a gesture towards the people they despised so much they were stringing them up all along the countryside - it's really, really weird.

Ryriena said:

How am I making a fool of myself, when it is you that clearly don't understand you have to have many documents and links to site your sources.

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It's.
Not
A
Fake.

You can go to the newspaper archives and check it out yourself.

This is beyond stoopid.

What does that have too do with the fact Dead confederates seems non historical. It must be true it's on the Internet.

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Andy Hall is a respected Civil War authority, and a Southerner to boot.

Stop it.

Paperview said:

It's.
Not
A
Fake.

You can go to the newspaper archives and check it out yourself.

This is beyond stoopid.

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See when you only have one source you can't claim it's the truth. I also clicked on the archives why did they not bring it up in the article.... Your the one being beyond stupid for believing everything you read on the Internet.

Ryriena said:

...
See when you only have one source you can't claim it's the truth. I also clicked on the archives why did they not bring it up in the article.... Your the one being beyond stupid for believing everything you read on the Internet.

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Yet you'll believe any bit of Lost Cause revisionism in a minute.

Look, lady: This is real. You can deny it all you want, and why you would think White Supremacists would disavow that speech is beyond me. It's not even remotely understanding the history of the period.

But, if it makes you feel better -- from the Pulaski, Tennessee Citizen of July 22, 1875,

They too express dissatisfaction with Forrest's actions at the Pole-Bearers meeting.

From Andy again: "Reconstruction-era Pulaski is infamous for being. . . well, never mind what Reconstruction-era Pulaski is infamous for.

Anyway, the first graf here is repeating from another paper, and the second is the Pulaski Citizen's editorial comment:

The Washington Republican and its neighbor, the Chronicle, have both abused Gen. Forrest bitterly, in past years, for not "fraternizing" with the negroes [sic.] and treating them as "men and brethren." Now, when Forrest goes to a negro picnic, fraternizes to the extent that he makes a pretty speech to the "colored ladies" and tells his audience that he wants to get nearer to them, these singularly contradictory papers abuse him for his friendly attitude to the negro and denounce him as a hypocrite. -- Courier Journal.

Which is evidence to our mind that the Republican and the Chronicle are learning some sense, even though it be at the expense of consistency. We think Gen. Forrest transcended the limits of propriety, at least, in his gushing speech to the color ladies on the 4th. It was ridiculous.​


Not as condemnatory as the Survivor's Association, but not on board with the whole racial-group-hug thing, for sure."

Go ahead and tell everyone that newspaper linked to is a fake. Give it your best shot.

More?

"The editors of the Augusta, Georgia Chronicle (which later published the resolution of the Confederate Survivor's Association) seem to have been made dyspeptic by the Pole Bearer address. July 9, 1875, p. 2:

Hands were very severely shaken across the bloody chasm [1] in Memphis last Monday. At the celebration of the Fourth-fifth in that city General Forrest, the man who captured Foot Pillow and the reputed head of the Ku-Klux-Klan in the South, was guest of the Independent Order of Pole-Bearers, a colored organization in that city which has been the cause of much trouble and has precipitated several riots. "President Henley" of the Pole Bearers, introduced "Miss Lou Lewis," who, as the "representative of the colored ladies," addressed him as "Mr. Forrest" and presented him with a bouquet "as a token of reconciliation, and an offering f peace and goodwill." "Mr. Forrest" accepted the flowers "as a memento of reconciliation between the white and colored races of the South," and accepted it "more particularly as it comes from a colored lady, for if there is any one in God's earth who loves the ladies it is myself." General, or should we say "Mr." [Gideon] Pillow, after whom the fort was named, was also present with newspaper editors and other distinguished citizens, and Mr. Pillow made a speech.

We believe the climax has been reached now and Gabriel may blow his horn [2] without fear that anyone will be left. Very great progress has been made in the hand shaking business we must confess and we beg leave to cry a halt. Will somebody pass around the ipecac?​

_______

[1] This is a sarcastic reference to Horace Greeley's 1872 presidential campaign, in which he called for an end to Reconstruction and argued that "the masses of our countrymen, North and South, are eager to clasp hands across the bloody chasm which has too long divided them. . . ." Republican cartoonists like Thomas Nast used that phrase to devastating effect."

Andy has another thing to add:

"The crudity of the image, which is common to online, digitized documents, is because the digital image is probably a scanned from old microfilm of the original paper. It's (at least) a second generation copy, a copy-of-a-copy. It's also a 1-bit image (pure black and white, no grays), so light printing drops away completely and smudges and scratches on the film come out like black blotches. It's hard to read sometimes, and when you enlarge it to full page size, it looks horrible.

In this case, the PDF was generated at GenealogyBank.com, which is a subscription service. For those who can access it, you can read it online here. I also subscribe to NewspaperArchive.com. These services can get expensive, but they cover different newspapers with not much overlap. I also make extensive use of free online newspaper archives, including:

Historical Newspapers Online
Historical Newspapers Online

Google Newspapers
Google News Archive Search

Google News Search (goes back into their archives)
https://news.google.com/news/advanced_news_search?as_drrb=a

Library of Congress
Chronicling America « Library of Congress

Portal to Texas History
http://texashistory.unt.edu/

There's an old saying that newspapers are the first draft of history. It's true, and while (then as now) newspapers often get important things wrong, there's probably no better way to get a handle on what people understood and discussed at the time."

Here here! I have literally thousands and thousand of original newspapers in my archives, dating back to the early 1700's.

A ****ton from before and during the Civil War and after. They are *fascinating! I wish more people would read them.

Hat's off to the Southerner who works devotedly for an accurate historical record.

One from my own archives I reproduced earlier:

An 1863 Confederate paper, from just after the bloody Gettysburg battle -- advertising the monthly slave auction:



SALE OF NEGROES IN GEORGIA: “The usual monthly sale took place in Augusta…Isham, 57 years old, $1,005; Amy 16 years old $2,399; Adam, 11 years old, $ 1,900., Moriah, 8 years old, $ $1, 475; Susan, aged 37 and three children, $3,200; Lucy, aged 16, $ $2,500....

Excon said:

Now you are just making stupid arguments

Veterans benefits are earned by the person's service. It is not sucking off the teat.

A Veteran benefit is given in exchange for the service they perform/provided. And some of those benefits that were earned are passed on to the spouse and children of a deceased veteran, which is the natural course for that which was earned being passed down to family.

Which is different than sucking off the teat by those that did absolutely nothing in exchange for a handout. A handout isn't passed down to spouse or child. An earned benefit is.

In the the US the government conferred the same status on their own citizens for their service in the US Civil War. That benefit is a result of their service and therefore also an earned benefit. And this can be ascertained by realizing that this benefit wasn't given to every man from the supposed CSA. Only those in her military service.

All the arguments against acknowledging their veteran status as conferred upon them by the US for US veteran law, are lame.
That law made no distinction between USA and CSA service members. All those who served in the US Civil war are US Civil War veterans.



Irrelevant argument.

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A veterans benefit is an entitlement, like social security. That means your contribution entitles you to the benefit.

They were traitors. They betrayed their country by taking arms up against it. They were not US veterans.

Absentglare said:

Just because i think it should be expelled from society doesn't mean i think the government should force expulsion.

It helps us identify the bigots and denialists. I think there shouldn't be bigots and denialists- i also think i should floss twice a day.

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You seem perfectly okay with bigotry........ as long as it is aimed towards certain groups.

Ryriena said:

...

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Funny, it seems the exact image would apply to your posts.

It's really weird, too, how you dismiss historical fact so readily.

Oh well. Gotta Lost Cause to revive.

Apparently.

Good luck sticking up for the KKK hero, as you apparently seem intent on doing...

Carry on.

Ryriena said:

I am not buying this supposed article; as it comes from one source and I searched myself that's, why I said links please. The supposed article also seems too new for the article they listed if it came from 1875. The printing also seems off...

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True or not it does not detract from the intentions or actions of Nathan Bedford Forrest. Not a bit.

Here again, Southern people have the information and history that no one else knows about or they choose to omit. Forrest's speech is significant as is his funeral.

Ryriena said:

Just because, I don't buy ones evidence as the absolute truth makes it worthy of a faceplam? I need more sources than a page that is questionable at best since I did do a search with the CSA and fake documents and that particular page popped up in the search engine in page one....."

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If the Macon Telegraph - used as proof - can be wrong but accepted by northern apologists it is wise to question.

Paperview said:

And what is amaaaaaaaaaaayzing to me is that you think former rapist slavers and those fighting for White Supremacy would somehow take offense the the KKK leader making a gesture towards the people they despised so much they were stringing them up all along the countryside - it's really, really weird.

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Wait, I think I see the bait.

Guy Incognito said:

This is, of course, nothing but a nonsensical attempt at rationization. The Confederate flag is a symbol of slavery and racism in terms of its historical usage as a flag used by the South, who left the union to preserve slavery; furthermore it's usage since the has been associated with racism.

People who support the usage of the confederate flag are either extremely ignorant or racists themselves, or both.

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You already confirmed that I am a racist by the fact that I support borders and immigration... remember?

I am sure that you have no problem calling anybody that you disagree with a racist as well.

JasperL said:

That burden has been met a dozen times over. It was first used by armies that if they prevailed would have enshrined slavery in the South indefinitely -

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That was then and that is why the comparison to the US Flag is relevant. The US Flag also represented slavery, opprerssion of minorities and women, etc.