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Confederate Flag[W:1518,2230, 2241]

Should the Confederate Flag be abolished?

  • Yes

    Votes: 55 30.2%
  • No

    Votes: 127 69.8%

  • Total voters
    182
Should the Confederate Flag be removed/abolished?

I say no. The argument is that it represents racism and slavery. That is stupid. So does the American Flag.

This is, of course, nothing but a nonsensical attempt at rationization. The Confederate flag is a symbol of slavery and racism in terms of its historical usage as a flag used by the South, who left the union to preserve slavery; furthermore it's usage since the has been associated with racism.

People who support the usage of the confederate flag are either extremely ignorant or racists themselves, or both.
 
I am laughing here so a black democratic mayor is racist and stupid?

Mayor supports Confederate symbolism at cemetery - San Antonio Express-News

:roll:

image.jpg
 
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This is, of course, nothing but a nonsensical attempt at rationization. The Confederate flag is a symbol of slavery and racism in terms of its historical usage as a flag used by the South, who left the union to preserve slavery; furthermore it's usage since the has been associated with racism.

People who support the usage of the confederate flag are either extremely ignorant or racists themselves, or both.

The Southern Cross was in no way created to have any connection to slavery or racism. The burden of proof is on you.

Let's talk about racism in the north. Let's talk about slavery being a national institution. Let's talk about the history and complicity of the northern states concerning slavery. Let's address the fact that slavery existed under the U.S. flag much longer than the Stars and Bars. Let's talk about racism today in New York City and Philadelphia. Let's discuss this. How about we talk about this? Want to discuss this? Show me racist flags flying in these northern examples.

While you are pointing fingers let's talk about racism where you live, Guy.

The vast majority of racists don't fly flags.
 
The Southern Cross was in no way created to have any connection to slavery or racism. The burden of proof is on you.

That burden has been met a dozen times over. It was first used by armies that if they prevailed would have enshrined slavery in the South indefinitely - they told us the fight was about slavery. The flag was resurrected out of obscurity in the 1940s as a banner under which defenders of Jim Crow rallied. That is the context in which it was raised atop the SC state house in 1961, etc...................... If you were white and flew that banner during the civil rights battles, you might was well have carried a sign, "Keep My Town White" or "I stand with George Wallace" or "Segregation Now, Segregation Forever." No one had to guess whether a Rebel flag on a car meant the driver stood with segregationists - it was obvious.

Etc. We've been through this many times. The KKK flew the banner with the same purpose and meaning as political, elected leaders of that era in the South.

Let's talk about racism in the north. Let's talk about slavery being a national institution. Let's talk about the history and complicity of the northern states concerning slavery. Let's address the fact that slavery existed under the U.S. flag much longer than the Stars and Bars. Let's talk about racism today in New York City and Philadelphia. Let's discuss this. How about we talk about this? Want to discuss this? Show me racist flags flying in these northern examples.

While you are pointing fingers let's talk about racism where you live, Guy.

The vast majority of racists don't fly flags.

The South earned its reputation for racism. The rest of the country turned against slavery, but the South fought a war to preserve it. A century later, the rest of the country nearly unanimously supported the CRA and VRA and the end of Jim Crow in the 1960s and nearly all of the elected white leaders in the South fought to keep institutionalized racism in place. We have mostly moved on from those shameful days, which is why it is ridiculous for dead enders and Lost Cause types to hang onto a symbol to the rest of the WORLD that we're still stuck in the 1950s, if not the 1850s.
 
The Southern Cross was in no way created to have any connection to slavery or racism. The burden of proof is on you.

Let's talk about racism in the north. Let's talk about slavery being a national institution. Let's talk about the history and complicity of the northern states concerning slavery. Let's address the fact that slavery existed under the U.S. flag much longer than the Stars and Bars. Let's talk about racism today in New York City and Philadelphia. Let's discuss this. How about we talk about this? Want to discuss this? Show me racist flags flying in these northern examples.

While you are pointing fingers let's talk about racism where you live, Guy.

The vast majority of racists don't fly flags.
I live in the South, and I had an ancestor who fought for the Confederacy, as a matter of fact. I know all about the terrible legacy of the Confederate flag.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by Risky Thicket

I did previously and I brought them to your attention and I discredited your sources. I am surprised you have forgotten.


Please point out where you did that.

Thank you in advance.

Should we assume by your nonresponse you are unable to back up your claim?
 
That burden has been met a dozen times over. It was first used by armies that if they prevailed would have enshrined slavery in the South indefinitely - they told us the fight was about slavery.

You have documentation that the South would have "enshrined" slavery in the South indefinitely.

The flag was resurrected out of obscurity in the 1940s as a banner under which defenders of Jim Crow rallied. That is the context in which it was raised atop the SC state house in 1961, etc...................... If you were white and flew that banner during the civil rights battles, you might was well have carried a sign, "Keep My Town White" or "I stand with George Wallace" or "Segregation Now, Segregation Forever."

Somewhat correct but not entirely. No one here that I have seen has supported Jim Crow laws. Though Jim Crow laws in one form or another existed in the South over 30 states had Jim Crow laws on the books, many as recently as the 40s and some later.

Here is where history takes a twist and turn and becomes a bit murky. If you are Southern and about 40 or older and if you grew up in the South you well understand Southern culture. You may have been educated in it as many of us were. If so you are aware of Southern resistance to the continual "encouragement" from the north in manners great and small. To this day it continues. The animosity was there long before the War Between the States.

As you may be well aware Southern people in general identify with State and region before nation. Certainly in international matters Southerners are hugely nationalistic and always among the first to fight and always in greater percentages. Other than that Southern people are fiercely loyal to their state and the Southland. Push them and they will push back. Actually that is how the War Between the States began.

In the 60s many people beyond the South pointed fingers and demanded "those backward rednecks" change their ways - WHILE, many, many states up north had not changed and made no attempt to change. Dixie responded by telling everyone else to kiss it. The battle flag came out again. Yes, African-Americans were adversely affected. It was a story that has to this day, repeated itself. For the most part it was not about holding black people back as it was a reaction to finger pointing Yankees who had hardly set an example; who know very little about their own history and slavery and racism. And don't want to know.

Northern ignorance and Southern pride and repeated the dance once again recently in South Carolina.

That is a very brief response. Entire books have been written explaining it. Truly you'd have to get deep in the shed with early colonial history to have a more complete perspective. The north and Dixie really were two separate countries united under one flag before the War Between the States. The people, their ancestory, the heritage, their colonial experience, even their accents were different. All that and so much more play a part.

The South never authorized the use of the battle flag by anyone. There is no one to authorize it. No ownership. It can back out because the South was once again being set upon by the north, who didn't have any call to be up on a pedestal finger pointing. Many in the South, as you well know, see even the recent actions as an attack of sorts on the Southland. Some grab the battle flag and say "Forget, hell!"
 
Part 2

There are dumbasses on all sides. You have people in Nebraska, Arizona, even Ireland hurling teams who fly the battle flag. Yes, some are racist idiots. In most cases their actions do not prove to be racist.


No, I don't fly the flag and never have and don't have family or friends who ever have. If it is offensive to African-Americans I support the flag not flying on state or federal property. I have no problem at all with that. However, as it began in South Carolina it was South Carolina's decision to make. I did not support and do not support non-South Carolinians attempting to make the decision for the people of South Carolina. Most of the people in the South likely feel the same way.

No one had to guess whether a Rebel flag on a car meant the driver stood with segregationists - it was obvious.


Proof?


Etc. We've been through this many times. The KKK flew the banner with the same purpose and meaning as political, elected leaders of that era in the South.


I addressed that above.


The South earned its reputation for racism. The rest of the country turned against slavery, but the South fought a war to preserve it.


Actually that is incorrect. Show me where racism has never existed in America and show me where it doesn't exist now. The War Between the States was primarily about money, state's rights and lastly about racism.


Did your Confederate ancestor own slaves?


A century later, the rest of the country nearly unanimously supported the CRA and VRA and the end of Jim Crow in the 1960s and nearly all of the elected white leaders in the South fought to keep institutionalized racism in place. We have mostly moved on from those shameful days, which is why it is ridiculous for dead enders and Lost Cause types to hang onto a symbol to the rest of the WORLD that we're still stuck in the 1950s, if not the 1850s.


Perhaps you missed my earlier post concerning racism outside the South as it exists today.


Racism is nationwide. It is very much as national problem and a national disgrace. It must be ended nationally.


The battle flag did not kill those 8 church going people in Charleston. Racism did.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Should we assume by your nonresponse you are unable to back up your claim?

No you should consider my nonresponse a gift and you should savor it. At the present I don't have the time to go back through this long ass thread. But, I will. Showing you again what I have already showed you is not at all near the top of my list. It'll happen but probably not today.

You didn't have much credibility with me to begin with but after I saw your haphazard "research" I really haven't had any reason to pay attention to what you say.
 
Part 2

There are dumbasses on all sides. You have people in Nebraska, Arizona, even Ireland hurling teams who fly the battle flag. Yes, some are racist idiots. In most cases their actions do not prove to be racist.


No, I don't fly the flag and never have and don't have family or friends who ever have. If it is offensive to African-Americans I support the flag not flying on state or federal property. I have no problem at all with that. However, as it began in South Carolina it was South Carolina's decision to make. I did not support and do not support non-South Carolinians attempting to make the decision for the people of South Carolina. Most of the people in the South likely feel the same way.




Proof?





I addressed that above.





Actually that is incorrect. Show me where racism has never existed in America and show me where it doesn't exist now. The War Between the States was primarily about money, state's rights and lastly about racism.


Did your Confederate ancestor own slaves?





Perhaps you missed my earlier post concerning racism outside the South as it exists today.


Racism is nationwide. It is very much as national problem and a national disgrace. It must be ended nationally.


The battle flag did not kill those 8 church going people in Charleston. Racism did.

Your account of the civil war is plainly revisionist. Ref: this entire thread.

I don't care what the people of South Carolina want. They might want to hang a black scarecrow from a tree with a noose- i don't care what they want, that's not relevant. They get to exercise free speech with their property, not state property. They don't get to put up a governmental endorsement of slavery or racism in this country.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

No you should consider my nonresponse a gift and you should savor it. At the present I don't have the time to go back through this long ass thread. But, I will. Showing you again what I have already showed you is not at all near the top of my list. It'll happen but probably not today.

You didn't have much credibility with me to begin with but after I saw your haphazard "research" I really haven't had any reason to pay attention to what you say.

:lamo

:lamo

:lamo

We'll be waiting, Risky. On tetherhooks.

lol
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Another confederate flag...another murder spree.


...The buyer of the house, Norman Bone, and his daughter, Beth, and her boyfriend, Dan Ramsel, described what Mr. Houser had done as booby-trapping the house, and said his rampage required more than a year of repairs. They said he destroyed many of its fixtures, dumped hundreds of fish into the swimming pool, and left human feces and cement throughout the house, where he once flew the Confederate battle flag.

Mr. Ramsel said that Mr. Houser, known as Rusty, had cultivated a reputation as “somewhat of an anarchist.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/25/us/lafayette-theater-shooting-john-houser.html?_r=0
 
Your account of the civil war is plainly revisionist.

How do you mean? I am willing to review your proof.

I don't care what the people of South Carolina want. They might want to hang a black scarecrow from a tree with a noose- i don't care what they want, that's not relevant. They get to exercise free speech with their property, not state property. They don't get to put up a governmental endorsement of slavery or racism in this country.

So you live in South Carolina?
 
How do you mean? I am willing to review your proof.



So you live in South Carolina?

It's not really the war between the states, the south took up arms against the north because of slavery. It was more like the war to end slavery. Civilwar.org

Oh and i'm not from South Carolina. I'm from California which would probably make me a "yank."
 
It's not really the war between the states, the south took up arms against the north because of slavery. It was more like the war to end slavery. Civilwar.org

Oh and i'm not from South Carolina. I'm from California which would probably make me a "yank."
That would indeed make you a Yankee, if we where in the civil war times.. How many times have I told you that Slavery was a hot button topic to win the war and the south did not just go to war over Slavery?


I don't think you understand the many issues that surrounded the civil war and why the North took up the cause of ending slavery in the south. I learned advanced history and thus not the basic history you get in schools nowadays.
 
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It's not really the war between the states, the south took up arms against the north because of slavery. It was more like the war to end slavery. Civilwar.org

Oh and i'm not from South Carolina. I'm from California which would probably make me a "yank."

Actually, it makes you a "Yankee." We don't say "yank," that's like a British thing.
 
Actually, it makes you a "Yankee." We don't say "yank," that's like a British thing.
Yank is British and makes us an American, and Yankee makes you a Union person or Northerner in the south. In example, a group of old southerners had a friend who was a Yankee born and bred that came down south after the war to help rebuild it and had a coffee pot that he let old confederates use. They said that "He was one of the finest, Yankee's they ever known" for letting them use that old coffee pot... Giggles snorts, I like that bit of history phrases myself.
 
It's not really the war between the states, the south took up arms against the north because of slavery. It was more like the war to end slavery. Civilwar.org

Oh and i'm not from South Carolina. I'm from California which would probably make me a "yank."
More appropriately named: "The Southern War of Aggression in Defense of Owning Black People as Slaves."
 
More appropriately named: "The Southern War of Aggression in Defense of Owning Black People as Slaves."

WRONG again paper view, it's known as The Northren War of Agression because that's what it was son....
 
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Re: Confederate Flag

How tragically sad.

He posted on a couple websites I frequent.

Freaky/

That is freaky. Not to derail the thread...but...do you remember much about him?
 
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