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Confederate Flag[W:1518,2230, 2241]

Should the Confederate Flag be abolished?

  • Yes

    Votes: 55 30.2%

  • No

    Votes: 127 69.8%
  • Total voters
    182
...
only that they were US Veterans, which they are.
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Only for the purposes of deriving a pension.

As the act stated:

Public Law 85-425 "AN ACT To increase the monthly rates of pension payable ...."

"For the purposes of this chapter—"
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/38/1501

Only for the purposes of awarding a Pension.

which no Confederate soldier ever received.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Ryriena said:
Ok whatever, what rights have they been denied recently?
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They fought hard for them.

That has nothing to do with your comment about 1958 - and what the South was doing to blacks nearly 100 years after the war.
 
Paperview said:
Only for the purposes of deriving a pension.

As the act stated:

Public Law 85-425 "AN ACT To increase the monthly rates of pension payable ...."

"For the purposes of this chapter—"
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/38/1501

Only for the purposes of awarding a Pension.

which no Confederate soldier ever received.
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:doh You were already told but refuse to learn.
What a shame.

You are again showing you do not understand what that means.
That is in regards to that benefit, not the benefits bestowed in the other chapters.
That doesn't mean they are not a US veteran.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Paperview said:
Thank dog the union forced the South to give up their desire to perpetuate legal human trafficking.
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:doh
Dog had nothing to do with it.
 
Excon said:
:doh You were already told but refuse to learn.
What a shame.

You are again showing you do not understand what that means.
That is in regards to that benefit, not the benefits bestowed in the other chapters.
That doesn't mean they are not a US veteran.
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:doh YOu were already told but refuse to learn.
What a shame.

"For the purposes of this chapter—"
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/38/1501
 
Paperview said:
YOu were already told but refuse to learn.
What a shame.
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:doh
Nope. That is you as already shown multiple time now.
You do not understand what you are presenting as already pointed out.
But I do see you are up to your same tired old tactics when you can not form a valid argument.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Absentglare said:
No, it seems you are ignoring the fact that celebrating the confederacy itself is different than mending bridges.
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I see your up to the same old story of deflection, when you can't forum a valid argument.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Ryriena said:
If you read the article I posted he started the movement that led to said Act. At the turn of the nineteenth and twentieth centuries, a move in the North was made to reconcile with Southerners. President McKinley was instrumental in this movement. When the Spanish-American War concluded successfully in December 1898, President McKinley used this as an opportunity to “mend the fences" On 14 December 1898 he gave a speech in which he urged reconciliation based on the outstanding service of Southerners during the recent war with Spain. Remember, as part of the conciliation, several former Confederate officers were commissioned as generals to include former Confederate cavalry general, Wheeler. He said this to congress

“…every soldier’s grave made during our unfortunate civil war [sic] is a tribute to American valor [my emphasis]… And the time has now come… when in the spirit of fraternity we should share in the care of the graves of the Confederate soldiers…The cordial feeling now happily existing between the North and South prompts this gracious act and if it needed further justification it is found in the gallant loyalty to the Union and the flag so conspicuously shown in the year just passed by the sons and grandsons of those heroic dead.”
The response from Congress to this plea was magnanimous and resulted in the Appropriations Act of FY 1901 (below).

per the article from the veteran today's link, I gave.
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I think you used the wrong link. There is nothing like you describe in the one you cited.

But I'm still not sure what relevance all that is to the topic. It's about a flag, with a distinctive and easily documented history in the 40s-60s associated with the civil rights battles.

And you talk about magnanimous and gracious acts, and reconciliation. How is the reconciliation between blacks and whites accomplished by flying a flag the clear majority of blacks find offensive. In any kind of real spirit of reconciliation, symbols offensive to oppressed blacks and their descendants aren't flown on state property. Seems like not flying such symbols is just the most basic sign of respect and common courtesy to past victims of state sponsored oppression lasting centuries.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

JasperL said:
I think you used the wrong link. There is nothing like you describe in the one you cited.

But I'm still not sure what relevance all that is to the topic. It's about a flag, with a distinctive and easily documented history in the 40s-60s associated with the civil rights battles.

And you talk about magnanimous and gracious acts, and reconciliation. How is the reconciliation between blacks and whites accomplished by flying a flag the clear majority of blacks find offensive. In any kind of real spirit of reconciliation, symbols offensive to oppressed blacks and their descendants aren't flown on state property. Seems like not flying such symbols is just the most basic sign of respect and common courtesy to past victims of state sponsored oppression lasting centuries.
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nope it's a little ways down in the link.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

This is the Act - It is entitled:

vets2_zpsd9mc1jjs.jpg


This is the meat of it.

They very specifically note how and clarify it is pertinent only to the Pension Act.
vets_zpstsiwk5po.jpg


http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/STATUTE-72/pdf/STATUTE-72-Pg133-2.pdf
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Excon said:
Okay, you are just playing games now. Flying a Rebel flag (VA Confederate Battle Flag) which is a universal representation (not just VA), over a Memorial to the Confederacy is appropriate.
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It's hilarious how you just substitute terms to suit your purpose. You originally said, and I'm quoting you, "U.S. memorial" to "U.S. Civil war veterans" but when confronted with the idiocy of flying the flag of an enemy to the U.S. over a "U.S. Memorial" then it becomes what it is, which is a state sponsored memorial to "the Confederacy."

Irrelevant to the discussion. The status is still there regardless. Again, it is a limited benefit, just as other veterans have limited benefit. They are all still US Veterans. Their limited benefits does not change their status as a US Veteran.
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Well, not limited, but non-existent benefits. Not one dime of benefits was paid to any Confederate veteran as a result of the 1958 law. They were all dead at that point.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

More, from a serious Civil War blogger and US Air Force Officer:

https://studycivilwar.wordpress.com/2014/11/11/veterans-day-2014/

Perhaps they’ll try to palm off the lie that confederate veterans are American veterans.


They aren’t.

Some confederate heritage advocates will make the absurd claim that confederate veterans are American veterans by act of Congress. They aren’t. No act of Congress declared confederate veterans to be American veterans. They were declared to be Civil War veterans.


38 US Code 1501 (3) says, “The term ‘Civil War veteran’ includes a person who served in the military or naval forces of the Confederate States of America during the Civil War, and the term “active military or naval service” includes active service in those forces.” It includes confederate veterans as Civil War veterans, not as American veterans.



Congress has authorized government-paid headstones for graves of confederate veterans, and in 1958 authorized payments to widows of confederate veterans as well as a pension to any surviving confederate veterans [there were none].


Here’s that legislation:





<cont>
 
<cont>

It modified a law passed the year before for payments to widows. Here are the relevant parts of that bill.




As we can see, it talks about “Civil War veterans.”

The definition of a “Civil War veteran” was expanded in 1958 to include confederate veterans. The US was magnanimous thanks to Senate Majority Leader Lyndon B. Johnson (D-Texas) and Speaker of the House Sam Rayburn (D-Texas). The Chairman of the House Committee on Veterans Affairs was Representative Olin E. Teague (D-Texas).

The Senate Committee on Veterans Affairs wasn’t created until 1970.

Prior to that, veterans legislation was handled by the Senate Committees on Finance and Labor and Public Welfare [see here]. The Chairman of the Senate Committee on Labor and the Public Welfare was Senator Joseph Lister Hill, (D-Alabama). Anyone see any trends in this?

They voted pensions to widows of confederate veterans and that worthy effort has today been perverted to a lie that the Congress declared confederate veterans to be American veterans when in fact instead of serving our country they were traitors to the United States of America."
 
What an insult to US veterans who fought in that war for the Union.

To think Confederate traitors should be placed on the same footing as those who took up arms against the US, and killed hundreds of thousands of US Citizens --

in the cause to perpetuate human bondage.

Sickening.
 
Paperview said:
What an insult to US veterans who fought in that war for the Union.

To think Confederate traitors should be placed on the same footing as those who took up arms against the US, and killed hundreds of thousands of US Citizens --

in the cause to perpetuate human bondage.

Sickening.
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I don't understand how they continue to rally to this cause. It has been so thoroughly dissembled, i don't know how they can still choose to deny it.

Frankly, flying the wrong flag, especially a flag well-established to represent traitor, could be interpreted as an act of war or treason.
 
Re: Confederate Flag

Paperview said:
Well said.

Recently, some folks wanted Confederate vets to be nominated for the Florida Veterans Hall of Fame.

They were told: NOPE.


"The executive director of the state Department of Veterans Affairs, Mike Prendergast, rejected all three for failing to comply with a requirement to have an honorable discharge from the U.S. armed forces, which he said does not include the Confederate States of America."

[h=3]Gov. Rick Scott and Cabinet refuse to honor Confederates[/h]
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Well then Florida needs new leaders. Simple as that
 
Absentglare said:
I don't understand how they continue to rally to this cause. It has been so thoroughly dissembled, i don't know how they can still choose to deny it.

Frankly, flying the wrong flag, especially a flag well-established to represent traitor, could be interpreted as an act of war or treason.
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100_2042.JPG
 
Paperview said:
What an insult to US veterans who fought in that war for the Union.

To think Confederate traitors should be placed on the same footing as those who took up arms against the US, and killed hundreds of thousands of US Citizens --

in the cause to perpetuate human bondage.

Sickening.
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Yes the revisionist crap the yankee lovers continue to spew is indeed sickening. If your type can't handle the reality that slapped you in the face and honor Confederates as true veterans then you're gonna have an uphill battle to fight
 
Absentglare said:
I don't understand how they continue to rally to this cause. It has been so thoroughly dissembled, i don't know how they can still choose to deny it.

Frankly, flying the wrong flag, especially a flag well-established to represent traitor, could be interpreted as an act of war or treason.
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Then color me "guilty" because the Confederate flag flies high and proud in my house!
 
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